Matt D

In the build to WM 1, Studd/Heenan repeatedly commented on how, due to the stips of the match, when Andre did not slam Studd, he would have to retire and head back to France. And then there was one of my most vivid wrestling memories as a kid, the ep of PTW where Andre made Heenan make wine.

Speaking as a child of that era: GI Joe was huge. And Slaughter was a pretty famous guy among kids. I never watched either GI Joe or pro wrestling back then, but even I knew exactly who the Sarge was. At times it seemed like you couldn't get through a single commercial break during any cartoon without an ad featuring Slaughter popping up. (But still, fame amongst six-year-olds isn't a compelling argument for becoming a national mainstream sensation like Hogan did.) I was a contrary 6-9 year old. I hated Hogan because everyone hated Hogan. I hated Gi Joe because EVERYONE loved GiJoe. For my age group it was a huge deal. I THOUGHT that he wasn't introduced into Gi Joe until 85 though.

I bet we'd all LOVE Mr. America right now.

In my mind, the Rock 'n' Wrestling stuff was really all about the Piper/Captain Lou/Lauper in ring angle. Hogan came in on promos after that and he was important because he was a guy you believed would appreciate/hang out with Lauper, and Sarge wouldn't be, but I feel like the Mr. T stuff just took it over the top. IT AMAZES me to go back and look at just how unpredictable Piper was then.

January, 1993 WCW Tougher than 91, definitely. I feel sort of obliged to use Benoit but i refuse to use Robbie V (though I was tempted to throw him or Erik Watts against Vader). I don't feel right using Prichard/Lane/Eaton or the RnRs but we'll see how desperate I get. Rude is out with an injury. I wanted to use face Jack/Barbarian but I really needed them as heels and for the interesting pairing below. Brad Armstrong vs Rip Rogers Tom Zenk/Johnny Gunn vs Scotty Flamingo/Vinnie Vegas (I like Tex/Shanghai more but I think Scotty/Vinnie would be a more interesting match) Steve Regal vs Chris Benoit Marcus Bagwell/Scorpio vs Pillman/Austin Dustin vs Orndorff Ricky Steamboat/Shane Douglas vs Cactus Jack/Barbarian Ron Simmons vs Barry Windham Sting vs Vader And what the hell. August 1995 WCW. SUPER HARD, but I know it fairly well. I ran out of faces for all the heels I wanted to use. Thus, Hogan & Hawk, which is just a fun Road Warriors combo. What I would give for Rip Rogers here. Also, a month or two earlier and I would have had the Lightning Express and Bagwell/Patriot for face teams. Marcus Bagwell vs Chris Kanyon (optional) Johnny B. Badd vs Craig Pittman Scott and Steve Armstrong vs Regal/Eaton Pillman vs Shark Meng and Bubba vs Bunk/Slater Randy Savage vs Arn Anderson Hogan & Hawk vs Kamala & Orndorff Sting vs Sabu Vader vs Flair

i kind of dread two months of HHH promos leading up to WM

According to Graham's site, Vader doesn't show up til Feb, so he didn't count. Gibson is injured at this point. And I felt like I had too many conventional tags in there and to be perfectly honest, I'd rather see Moondog Rex than Garvin/Hayes. I SUPPOSE I could be convinced to sub Garvin/Hayes in for Wallstreet/Irwin (I like 1981 Irwin way more than 1991 Irwin, after all) in the six man. I'd consider using Jack Victory/Rip Morgan or the State Patrol over the Freebirds I think (though probably not Pat Rose and Reno Riggins).

I'm not sure I'm up to the idea of taking this out of context. Instead, I think I'm just going to put together, let's say the best possible card from early 1991 WCW. All guys on the January, 1991 WCW cards, are possible. I THINK Eaton was still a heel here and Taylor was still a face but I'm going to deal with that the best way possible. Tim Horner, Ricky Morton, and Tommy Rich vs Michael Wallstreet, Moondog Rex, and Bill Irwin Brad Armstrong vs Dutch Mantell Pillman/Zenk vs Buddy Landell/Rip Rogers Norman vs Owen Hart Southern Boys vs Doom Bobby Eaton vs Terry Taylor Luger vs Barry Windham Steiners vs Sid/Arn Sting vs Flair I think that's the best I can do for January 1991. The six man is probably optional, or if this was a PPV, a dark match. I just like Moondog Rex and Bill Irwin a lot.

I think his WWE run is best known for being the first guy to show up as a sneak-attacker for the Invasion and the "boring" chants.

I want to talk about Hogan's MSG matches with Flair in 91-early 92. But I'd probably have to rewatch them. From what I remember the first two were pretty bad with only the third one really turning it up and giving us what we'd expect.

I'm perfectly happy sticking the French and Danish together when it comes to wrestling, but I'm not sticking the Brits and the French together. I am happy sticking the Scots and the Brits together, though. But that's just anecdotal from what I've seen between here and DVDVR. If we really need to split it more we can. But I think there are pretty clear trends to be found. Or maybe there aren't, but that's what I think is worth examining..

I also want to broach the topic of cultural divide between the UK, Europe, and American members of our community, but I don't nearly have the level of attention and sophistication necessary to handle that right now.

If you haven't seen Christian's 2009 ECW run, you should do yourself a favor and track it down. Especially the Regal feud but not just. He's the best TV champion WWE ever had. And yeah, I don't think Christian/Orton looked very scripted at all. He was better at it as a face, but one of Christian's best qualities as a worker is that he's able to look a lot of the "learning"/counters seem pretty damn organic and lock right into his large moveset naturally.

I hate the Butcher angle at Starccade 94, so much. I've mentioned this before, but it's an angle that should have been workable. The betrayal from a guy who hadn't been heel in 8 years or whatever, who had only a year before main evented Mania as Hogan's partner. I get that Hogan was paranoid in 94, but if you're going to let ANYONE get heat on you, you figure it'd be the guy who carries your bags and who you trust with your life. The masked man attacks Hogan for months. The payoff comes when Hogan legdrops him and unmasks him. And it's Beefcake. But he's already legdropped him and unmasked him. The bad guy's basically gotten his comeuppance. We're at the end of the Scooby Doo Episode here. It's over. Where's the heat? It drives me nuts because it would have been simple as anything for him to legdrop the masked guy, pull it off, have it be Arn, and then the second one come in, put Hogan out with the sleeper, unmask himself, and have it be Beefcake. Or fifty other scenarios. It's just maddening to me for some reason. I'm always going to think he's a bully as a face too, though I don't think Savage actually had a point in 89.

Sometimes I wonder: did we change or did wrestling change?

Hogan's matches were very, very well put together between 89 and 91. Each big match seems to have a build to it and a story behind it, and that story plays out in the match. I think the two Taker matches are especially interesting in how one builds into the next. I'm sure I hated them in 91 and I hated them even more in 2001 (where are all the moves?!), but in 2011, I found them really interesting and very smart. I also love his first heel performance against the Giant. It's one thing to work too small against Piper. It's another against the Giant and you can just tell how much Hogan is loving the stooging. I actually kind of hate Hogan's goofy hammerlock take down chain wrestling thing he did whenever he felt like he had to prove that he could wrestle. It was like he was trying to appease people who would never get it anyway (and I was sure as hell one of them for most of my life).

Naylor is a guy who loves what he loves as earnestly and emotionally as anyone and is really good at letting others feel how they feel too, disagreeing without insulting, so it's hard to fault him for much.

The fun part about WCW in mid 91 is trying to figure out what the hell they SHOULD have done with everyone given the roster. My favorite thought is a York Foundation vs Sting feud for the US title, probably with them adding Zenk to the Yorks too.

He did look like he was having fun there though.

You know what's a weird match? Santana and Jim Powers vs Andre from right before WM 5.

Taker was downright scary with Brother Love. I'm totally convinced they gave him Pringle to make him less scary to the kids. Also, the only useful role Mick Foley has left is to be face manager Lou Albano

No idea on the Mid South, but this was some of the "weak" 1980 Jimmy Hart stuff I was talking about. The months without Lawler all pretty much stunk (except for Billy Robinson) until Tommy Rich came in.

He did buy his competition.

It's just so weird to me that Ellering had a "strong man" gimmick in memphis.

It's even better if his theme music is playing. And doubly so if it's "Man Called Sting"