KrisZ Posted October 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 Brisco's & Barnett had enough for Vince to take over as Ole & Fred Ward were the other partners IIRC. Another factor in this is how did Crockett perceive his relationship with Vince because Vince was very friendly with him in early 1984 by letting Piper work out his dates, Sarge coming in for the Steamer retirement show in January and letting Valentine work a complete month for him after coming back to work WWF TV. Also regarding Florida, when Crockett, Verne, & Jarrett all hooked up for PWUSA, Graham was conspicuous by his absence in his involvement in that promotion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted October 1, 2011 Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 Brisco's & Barnett had enough for Vince to take over as Ole & Fred Ward were the other partners IIRC.I remember the story about Vince running into Ole at that time and saying to him, "Join me Ole, and I'll make you rich." and Ole replied, "Fuck you and your wife, too." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 From the thread that pre-dated this one, I want to pull this in to get across the New York Market and how Hogan was used. We all tend to focus MSG, but that fails to tell the whole story. The earlier post: * * * * * * * Quick add to NY: You want to get in the Meadowlands and Long Island numbers for the WWF as well. I did this once before in a thread to show how Hogan wasn't in MSG as much because he was also used as an anchor for Meadowlands and Long Island cards. There was the Hogan-Muraco series from 04/22/85 to 06/21/85. After that, he wasn't back until 12/30/85. So for 1985-86 (with the Jan 87 completion of a feud): 02/18/85 MSG: Hogan vs Piper 03/08/85 Long Island: Hogan vs Ventura 03/31/85 MSG: Mania 04/22/85 MSG: Hogan vs Muraco 05/10/85 Long Island: Hogan vs Orton (SNME) 05/20/85 MSG: Hogan vs Muraco 06/21/85 MSG: Hogan vs Muraco 06/26/85 Long Island: Hogan & Orndorff vs Studd & Orton 08/02/85 Meadowlands: Hogan vs Beefcake 10/03/85 Meadowlands: Hogan vs Volkoff (SNME) 11/01/85 Long Island: Hogan vs Ventura 12/05/85 Long Island: Hogan & Tito vs Savage & Ventura 12/30/85 MSG: Hogan vs Savage 01/27/86 MSG: Hogan vs Savage 02/17/86 MSG: Hogan vs Savage 03/10/86 Meadowlands: Hogan vs Studd 04/07/86 Long Island: Hogan vs Bundy (from LA at Mania) 04/22/86 MSG: Hogan & Hillbilly Jim vs Studd & Bundy 05/08/86 Meadowlands: Hogan vs Muraco 06/22/86 Meadowlands: Hogan vs Adonis 07/17/86 Meadowlands: Hogan vs Adonis 08/04/86 Meadowlands: Hogan vs Adonis 09/22/86 MSG: Hulk Machine * Big & Super Machine vs Bundy & Studd & Heenan 10/03/86 Long Island: Hogan vs Orndorff 11/03/86 Long Island: Hogan vs Orndorff 11/24/86 MSG: Hogan & Piper vs Orndorff & Race 12/01/86 Long Island: Hogan vs Orndorff 12/08/86 Meadowlands: Hogan vs Savage 12/26/86 MSG: Hogan vs Kamala 01/05/87 Meadowlands: Hogan & Steamboat vs Savage & HTM 01/19/87 MSG: Hogan vs Kamala 31 matches (30 we kick out Mania II, but Hogan really was the draw at *every* venue that night). Just 13 of them were in MSG. Basically, Hogan was being spread around the New York area, helping block rivals from all three major venue, and giving WWF fans a lot of different matches/cards to chose from in a given month. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 Interesting to see Adonis get a three match run with Hogan in NJ. Hogan tagged with just about everybody under the sun in those days, didn't he? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khawk20 Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 Interesting to see Adonis get a three match run with Hogan in NJ. I'd love to see those but I doubt they were taped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 Not from NJ, but from the same time frame in Philly: Hogan vs Adonis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khawk20 Posted April 22, 2012 Report Share Posted April 22, 2012 Thanks. I have the Philly match, and enjoyed watching it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted April 22, 2012 Report Share Posted April 22, 2012 I loved the Studd, Adonis and Murdoch against Hulk and Andre stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boon Posted February 26, 2013 Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 This is the most interesting and informative thread I think I've ever read, top work JDW and KrisZ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 This thread was a lot of fun. Kriz busted his hump sifting through loads of results, and tossed in a lot of good analysis on when things shifted in each city/area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted February 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 This thread is going to be revisited soon....I don't know when but I have found some results sources I didn't have then and finding quite a few results that Graham doesn't have in his WWF section. I'm doing a little at a time but it will happen when I get through whether it's this year or whenever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrainfollower Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 One thing this thread did reinforce for me is how deserving of legendary status the Road Warriors are. If Vince had signed them in January 84 with everyone else you can knock probably 35% of the AWA's numbers through mid 86 and a ton of numbers as well for super shows where they came in as a special attraction. I'd place them with Flair, maybe above him as the 2nd major attraction of the expansion era. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 That would be one to ask KHawk about. I don't recall the Warriors being seen as a massive draw in the AWA. On the other hand, one gets a sense that Vince would have done better with them than Verne or Crockett/Dusty. Though perhaps not, since he didn't do well with them when he got them. The problem with the Warriors is that you do need to feed them red meat. I think putting Big Fat Guys against them, such as Quake & Typhon, was a mistake. The Warriors just didn't look impressive against guys who were bigger, and against whom they couldn't do all their Cool Shit against. It's one thing to put them up against other muscle heads (Russians and Powers of Pain), where the Warriors just come off as the baddest ass of that type. Big Fat Guys... not great. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted April 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 Well the real theory about the Warriors was what would've happened if they had gone to Memphis for a few months in February 1984 as was originally planned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 I assume for either Lawler or the Fabs to beat in a program as the passed through? John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 That would be one to ask KHawk about. I don't recall the Warriors being seen as a massive draw in the AWA. On the other hand, one gets a sense that Vince would have done better with them than Verne or Crockett/Dusty. Though perhaps not, since he didn't do well with them when he got them. The problem with the Warriors is that you do need to feed them red meat. I think putting Big Fat Guys against them, such as Quake & Typhon, was a mistake. The Warriors just didn't look impressive against guys who were bigger, and against whom they couldn't do all their Cool Shit against. It's one thing to put them up against other muscle heads (Russians and Powers of Pain), where the Warriors just come off as the baddest ass of that type. Big Fat Guys... not great. John Honestly, they should have tossed the Nasty Boys at them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted April 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 I assume for either Lawler or the Fabs to beat in a program as the passed through? John They were actually supposed to replace the Fabs on the roster. The Zambuie Express took their spots Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 One thing this thread did reinforce for me is how deserving of legendary status the Road Warriors are. If Vince had signed them in January 84 with everyone else you can knock probably 35% of the AWA's numbers through mid 86 and a ton of numbers as well for super shows where they came in as a special attraction. I'd place them with Flair, maybe above him as the 2nd major attraction of the expansion era. This isn't true at all. If you follow the big picture on The Roadies there were as many disappointments with them as drawing cards in the AWA than anything else. The consistent link with stronger crowds in 84/85 isn't The Roadies - it's Blackwell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted April 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 Blackwell & Slaughter were the war horses of the AWA in 1985 not the Roadies hell the Roadies actually worked more outside of the AWA than in the AWA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khawk20 Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 Roadies were a decent attraction when they arrived in the summer of 1984, through the end of 1984 and the first little bit of 1985. The Fabs program was pretty big. Their arrival did conicide with a ton of things going on in the AWA at the same time, however...the build towards the Brody-Blackwell feud, Martel winning the title and facing Bockwinkel in his first significant title defenses, and the slightly-earlier arrival of the Fabulous Ones stick out. The Roadies were *the* big summer arrival in the AWA, and were showcased and promoted as such. Combos with the likes of Steve O/Curt Hennig/Brad Rheingans/Jim Brunzell were perfect feeder teams for the arriving LOD. They were not the only draw, however...they were part of several compelling storylines going on from the spring through the end of the year. Once you got to 1985, they ran out of compelling opponents after Slaughter and Blackwell in February of 1985, IMO. Save for Super Clash against the Freebirds and a High Flyers program in Winnipeg, there wasn't much for fans to get excited about. The LOD's style didn't change, and it limited their effectiveness as a draw once their opponents were placed in the "no-hoper" category by the fans paying to see them. Blackwell-Bundy was a legit challenge. Ditto Slaughter-Blackwell, and The Fabulous Ones. The Hennigs were not. the Long Riders were not. Garvin and Regal were not (which is why I appreciate the way they switched the belts using them...nobody saw that coming). The AWA loading up in 1984 was great (**Insert cheap plug to check out my 1984 AWA set**). 1985, by comparison, was a disappointment, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 Well the real theory about the Warriors was what would've happened if they had gone to Memphis for a few months in February 1984 as was originally planned.I just can't envision the Warriors staying in Memphis for an extended period. When you have the ability to go to so many different territories and make big money why would you stick around in Memphis, which is notorious for low payoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrainfollower Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 Well looking at the numbers city by city it looks like the AWA's numbers dropped pretty hard around the time the Roadies left. Maybe that's just a coincidence but I have my doubts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrainfollower Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 And yes the Roadies-Disasters was a horrible horrible idea. Same as how Taker was booked so he couldn't actually do his finisher to virtually any opponent for like two years (how the heck do you tombstone Yoko, Gonzalez or Mabel?) Vince has always had a hard on for the "yeah but how would he beat THIS monster" when booking a monster face rather than going for the contrast and getting a much much better match out of it. Imagine a Rockers heel turn and how good Shawn and Marty might have made the LOD look as opposed to what that Disasters feud did for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khawk20 Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 Well looking at the numbers city by city it looks like the AWA's numbers dropped pretty hard around the time the Roadies left. Maybe that's just a coincidence but I have my doubts. I'm thinking the numbers in some of the main cities like St. Paul and Chicago were down quite a bit throughout 1985, while the Warriors were still around. Maybe they went down further after they left, but I think the decline in attendance was already in full swing and them sticking around wouldn't have stopped it. It really would have come down to what opponents came in to feud with them...if the program was compelling, they would have drawn. But, IMO, they stopped drawing by themselves in the AWA way before then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andrews Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 Vince has always had a hard on for the "yeah but how would he beat THIS monster" when booking a monster face rather than going for the contrast and getting a much much better match out of it. Imagine a Rockers heel turn and how good Shawn and Marty might have made the LOD look as opposed to what that Disasters feud did for them. By default, the Rockers would of had to change their ENTIRE characters and style that they work their matches, especially back then to work as heels, and them working with the dominant LOD in that capacity, at that period of time, simply wouldn't have worked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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