Bix Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 HISTORICAL PERFORMERS ERA CANDIDATES Gene & Ole Anderson The Masked Assassins (Jody Hamilton & Tom Renesto) Red Bastien Pepper Gomez Ray Gunkel Dick Hutton Hans Schmidt Kinji Shibuya Wilbur Snyder John Tolos Enrique Torres Kurt & Karl Von Brauner w/Saul Weingeroff Tim "Mr. Wrestling" Woods MODERN PERFORMERS ERA CANDIDATES Batista Edge Owen Hart Curt Hennig Ivan Koloff Fabulous Moolah Pedro Morales Dick Murdoch Rock & Roll Express (Ricky Morton & Robert Gibson)' Sabu Sgt. Slaughter Jimmy Snuka Sting Mr. Wrestling II JAPAN CANDIDATES George Gordienko Gran Hamada Volk Han Seiji Sakaguchi Kensuke Sasaki Kiyoshi Tamura Steve "Dr. Death" Williams MEXICO CANDIDATES Perro Aguayo Jr. Atlantis Cien Caras Karloff Lagarde Blue Panther L.A. Park Huracan Ramirez Vampiro Villano III Dr. Wagner Jr. EUROPE CANDIDATES Big Daddy Henri DeGlane Horst Hoffman Mick McManus Kendo Nagasaki Jackie Pallo Rollerball Mark Rocco Johnny Saint AUSTRALIA/PACIFIC/PUERTO RICO CANDIDATES Spyros Arion Carlos Colon King Curtis Iaukea Mark Lewin NON-WRESTLERS Lou Albano Bill Apter Jim Crockett Jr. Gary Hart Jerry Jarrett Gorilla Monsoon Dr. Alfonso Morales Don Owen Jesse Ventura Kent Walton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted August 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 More later, but why is Dave grouping Puerto Rico with Australiasia and Asian countries that Jim Barnett's promotion did tours of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 I suppose Dave feels PR is important enough to be separated from America or Mexico as being its own thing, but not nearly important enough to have a category of its own. So it gets thrown into the catch-all Miscellaneous group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 Yeah... what Jingus says: it comes across as a Junk Drawer grouping. I'd also think there's more to Lewin's career than being tossed in Aussie/Pacific. Is that really 50%+ of his candidacy for the HOF? John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted August 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 With Lewin I guess that depends on how much you value the team with Don Curtis, right? I mean I believe he did well but he's not HOF level for his later US runs. Lewin and Curtis are guys who you always hear about working Hong Kong, Singapore, etc, but never with any details. Is there close to enough information about anything outside of Barnett's WCW to make an educated decision? If we're largely basing it on WCW Australia, is there any reason not to vote for any of the guys on the ballot for that region? Plus, why isn't Mario Milano on the ballot? He's a huge omission with that new region. Colon/PR makes no sense in this context, WWC is/was a US territory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Evans Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 Does all the fake Huracan Ramirez's in the early 2000's hurt the nominees chances? Seems like there were at least a dozen version of the Original. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 We really need to start a PWO HOF bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 If I had a ballot I'd abstain form Mexico and Historical Categories (though I do think Schmidt and Shibuya should be in). I'd definitely vote for the RnR's, Koloff, Colon, Big Daddy, Morales, Hamada and Han. On the fence on Murdoch, McManus and Pallo. Non-wrestlers I'd definitely vote for Owen, Walton and Apter. Could be convinced on all of them other then Jesse and probably Monsoon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 Oh, and I'd write in Buddy Rose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rainmakerrtv Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 We really need to start a PWO HOF bad. And my first nominees would be Dick Murdoch and Buddy Rose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 A lot of these guys are tough calls. Off the top of my head my choices would consist of Hans Schmidt, Ivan Koloff, Sting, the Fabulous Moolah, the Rock 'n' Roll Express, Sgt. Slaughter, Dr. Wagner Jr., Mr. Wrestling II, Carlos Colon, Lou Albano and Gorilla Monsoon. Others I'd strongly consider include Steve Williams, Big Daddy, Red Bastien, Jim Crockett. Schmidt is the best candidate on the ballot IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eduardo Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 I would personally really like to see Atlantis go in, and hopefully Steve Sims would do the biography for him if he does get inducted. He was a legitimate draw for years and was one of the most recognizable luchadores for decades (with an iconic mask). Obviously he was an excellent worker, and I still feel he's Blue Panther's best working partner. Some of his matwork against Blue Panther in 1991 and 1997 is amongst the best matwork ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 We really need to start a PWO HOF bad. God... please... no. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 More later, but why is Dave grouping Puerto Rico with Australiasia and Asian countries that Jim Barnett's promotion did tours of? You get the feeling that Dave doesn't understand that PR is a US territory in the Caribean Sea (i.e. part of the Atlantic Ocean) rather than over in the Pacific... or anywhere near the Aussies? Did he confuse it with Guam? John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted August 19, 2011 Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 My toughest choice every year is if there's not a Japanese candidate that I think is worthy, to pick at least one to make sure Sakaguchi doesn't get in. Volk Han is my usual safe choice, and it makes Yohe happy that someone else votes for him. I'm not enthused about any of the Modern Wrestlers. BTW - Edge on the ballot means that Dave is still going with the 35 year old rule? I didn't think he had 15 years in the Bigs. He didn't debut in the WWF until 1998, and I seem to recall that Dave ignored all of Rey Jr.'s wrestling before he made his big time debut. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted August 19, 2011 Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 Based solely on finishing Gary Hart's book literally 10 minutes ago, I think I could make a pretty good case for his inclusion: Manager for countless main event, money-drawing talents in various promotions from the 60s through the 80s. Memorable and entertaining character. Successful booker in Georgia and (mostly) Texas for several years. Responsible for developing many wrestlers into main eventers and coming up with/being involved in many memorable angles that drew money. Successful TV producer... I'm no expert on his work. I only know of him from YouTube, a few tapes here and there, and the old Apter mags, as he was not part of the TV wrestling I watched in Calgary as a kid during the 80s, and was pretty much gone from the scene by 1990. But from what I have seen I think he was an exceptional promo guy and excellent at getting over characters and feuds. I'm actually kind of surprised he's not already in, but I guess the strikes against him are not having a run in some major areas, like New York, St. Louis, etc, being gone from the scene for so long, and usually being only a manager in the areas he did work. However, just to use an example, and not to rile anybody up because I'm a fan of the guy, but if someone like Heyman is in, I think Hart (who I would say was more successful than Heyman, but not as influential) should also be in. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted August 19, 2011 Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 I know this is restarting ancient arguments, but I never got a good answer last time: what would be the rationale for voting for a guy like Big Daddy, but not Jesse Ventura? The knock on the latter seems to always be that the voter didn't think Jesse was very good at his job, but it's hard to look at any Big Daddy match ever and find it even remotely tolerable. Certainly the Body had a much larger fanbase, is much more famous worldwide, and had an exponentially larger historical impact on the wrestling business as a whole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted August 19, 2011 Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 On Gary Hart, I seem to recall that when his book came out that he took a lot of credit for things in WCCW that weren't really things he should get credit for. That in turn called into question some of the other things he took credit for outside of WCCW. It was less that "Gary was a big fat liar", but that the book stretched his impact too much. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted August 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 I don't recall anything in the book about his booking of Dallas that seemed suspect. The obvious exaggerations are generally about payoffs (after a certain point, that is: he comes off completely honest about money before his Georgia run with Kabuki). Besides that I've heard that stuff like claiming the "Fritz is from Texas and Waldo is a Canadian who isn't his brother" expose was an ad lib to be stretching the truth, but that's about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJH Posted August 19, 2011 Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 Whatever argument there is for Big Daddy is off-set by him being a fucking joke, and suitably remembered as such. I've never heard a single person reminisce about WoS without talking about how much of a shitty embarassment he was. I'd love to see the ratings/attendance breakdown that shows he (rather than Joint Promotions) was actually a significant draw compared to other guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLIK Posted August 19, 2011 Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 Whatever argument there is for Big Daddy is off-set by him being a fucking joke, and suitably remembered as such. I've never heard a single person reminisce about WoS without talking about how much of a shitty embarassment he was. I've only seen a handfull of his matches but in every one I watched he was crazy over and massively loved by most of the audiance. From most acounts i've heard from people that worked with him he was a jerk backstage and he cleary wasn't any good from a technical/skill point of view but you can't really deny he was still a really big deal regardless. Of the people I actually know enough about to comment on i'd vote for any of the following R&R, Sting, Hamada, Williams, Atlantis, Wagner Jr, Saint, Bill Apter & Jerry Jarrett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted August 19, 2011 Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 My point is, every positive thing that you can point to as a reason to vote for Big Daddy is something that shores up Ventura's case as well. (Aside from promoting, anyway, and then you run into Gorilla Monsoon comparisons.) Jesse The Body is so ridiculously famous and so influential in his role as a color commentator, I don't understand how he's not a slam dunk when voting for him in a non-wrestling category. Practically every heel announcer owes a lot of their shtick to Ventura, who got very well known in that role before Bobby Heenan did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJH Posted August 19, 2011 Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 I've only seen a handfull of his matches but in every one I watched he was crazy over and massively loved by most of the audiance. I can't deny that, but unless that's your sole criteria ('being a star'), I don't see the argument. Was the product taking a downturn before he came along and rejuvenated it? Did the ratings spike when he was on, or were they moreorless the same regardless of who appeared? Is there a breakdown that shows he was more important a draw than McManus, Kendo Nagasaki, Jackie Pallo/etc before them, or even Rocco/Marty/Johnny Saint etc? Where the shows he worked on notably bigger gates than those he wasn't? His legacy is as a joke (I mean, a complete and total joke). He didn't elevate a single person from being paired with him. He's in the absolute lowest percentile of workers I've ever seen. Being an asshole is a non-factor; if he had Eaton's reputation as a nice guy it wouldn't make the blindest bit of difference: he was the (insert a thousand superlatives) shits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteF3 Posted August 19, 2011 Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 Mick McManus has most of Daddy's fame--he wasn't as famous at his peak as Daddy was at his, but he was nonetheless a 100% mainstream celebrity in Great Britain--without the in-ring baggage. Indications are that he was a very strong worker in the style, considering what's available is when he was well past his prime and he's still looking good. Throw in some supposedly big audiences on FA Cup Final Day--I don't know how would one would go about verifying that--and his front-office work in the late '70s and I don't see much of an argument against him. McManus would seemingly satisfy the lack of WOS workers in the Hall without being as divisive as Daddy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSR Posted August 19, 2011 Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 Of the people I actually know enough about to comment on i'd vote for any of the following R&R, Sting, Hamada, Williams, Atlantis, Wagner Jr, Saint, Bill Apter & Jerry Jarrett Personally, I can't see how someone could vote for Saint and not include Daddy and certainly Kent Walton. Although the belief from some in the UK that I've read is that Saint would do well this year based solely on his recent US exposure. I don't know much about McManus, but I remember a couple of years ago there was a program on ITV called That's What I Call Television (hosted by Fern Britton and Bradley Walsh) where they had a feature on the old World of Sport wrestling, and the person they had as their guest to talk about it was McManus (this show airing some 20 years after ITV cancelled wrestling, and guessing a good 30/40 years after McManus' prime). Whilst not as well known as Daddy, for a certain generation as Pete says, he was an absolute mainstream name (my parents who had little interesting in wrestling) were both fully aware of him and would bring him up when I would watch the ITV wrestling as a kid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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