[1995-09-17-WCW-Fall Brawl] Ric Flair vs Arn Anderson

[Loss]

Talk about it here.

[Loss]

Every time I watch this, I expect to suddenly not like it anymore, considering the criticism this match gets at times. Then I watch it, see that this match is awesome, and realize that I was right all along!

 

First, let's talk the big criticism -- that there wasn't the hate you'd expect, because when brothers fight in real life, that's what happens. Consider the build to this match. Neither guy turned on the other. They were briefly physical after the Flair/Sting match on the first Nitro and that was it. The build wasn't about two guys who couldn't wait to get their hands on each other. If you listen to Arn's promos, he needed the match, but didn't particularly want it to happen. But he had to prove a point to Flair. Flair, by the same token, wanted to prove to Arn that the social order the Horsemen had in place all those years was valid and right -- that Flair was The Man not because he was anointed, but because he was the best. (This is not me projecting, this is their promos.) So Arn needed to get through to Flair by showing him that he didn't achieve all that he achieved by himself, while Flair needed to show Arn that both were where they were in the Horsemen pecking order for a reason.

 

So, going into this and considering that context, things like Flair doing his normal psych out at the beginning where he offers his hands then fixes his hair carry more weight. If Arn is nervous, he oughta be, because he's in the ring with RIC FLAIR. Arn quickly catches him with a drop toehold and takes him to the mat, slapping the back of his head a few times, to show him he won't be intimidated.

 

Continuing that, they have a staredown and Arn slaps him. Within a couple of minutes, Flair takes exception to Arn working his arm so aggressively, and Arn slaps him again. Again, Arn is making the point to Flair that the stuff he does against everyone else won't work on him because he's too close to Ric to fall for that. Flair continues trying old tricks, like begging off, and nothing works. So now, it looks like everything is going Arn's way. Flair does the turnbuckle flip and Arn goes to clothesline him and Flair ducks. So Flair reacted to Arn knowing his routine by throwing a left when Arn was expecting a right, so to speak. He follows that up with a double axehandle to the floor.

 

So Flair is in control for the next few minutes, finally locking in the figure four with Arn turning it over. So many of the tired spots seem fresh because of the context in which they're taking place -- this is a brand new match for both guys. I do think the finish takes something away from this. I guess it was necessary to further the storyline, but Flair was the heel until the finish, so it didn't really fit. Arn absolutely had to win to keep this going, otherwise what was the point? But it would have been cool to see Pillman align with Flair with Arn convincing Sting to be his partner, only to turn on him in the end. It's consistent with the feud up until that point, the Horsemen end up reunited and Sting doesn't look quite as stupid.

 

Anyway, if you haven't watched this match in a long time and aren't a fan of it, I strongly recommend that you check it out again. It helps even more to do so in the context of this yearbook because you get to see all the buildup and promos, and you realize they're working a match that's perfectly in tune with the storyline.

[El-P]

Last time I checked, it was just a *good match*. Which was blah for the big Flair vs Arn match. When I get to 1995, I'll see if I reevaluate. I doubt it, Fall Brawl 95 is a PPV I watched a few times.

Now, let John tell us how he feels about it.

[Matt D]

They do that flip/duck thing again. That exact same spot, I think in a 2 on 1 match on Nitro. It kind of kills it for me, to be honest.

[Loss]

Well yeah, that was after this match. The feud fell off the rails pretty much immediately, but the match started it out on the right foot.

[jdw]

Now, let John tell us how he feels about it.

I've always hated the match. But I'll give it another chance at some point in the near future.

 

John

[Tim Evans]

I've seen this many times but after watching it now, I agree with Loss, it's still great. Seeing Arn go toe to toe with Flair even after Hogan destroyed his is weird to see. One of Arn's best singles matches.

[jdw]

I've been sitting on this for a few months because it's exactly what I mean when I say "no one wants to read that". But since I was if re-watching the feud caused me to rethink the match...

 

* * * * *

 

The opening slaps & respect stuff don't work for me given Ric's overplaying of them. Arn is fine with good facials, but Ric... blah. This doesn't remotely fire me up like it does Loss.

 

Arn's working the arm shoulder leading to nothing. I loved Ric's fifth of gin selling in the arm pulled, and Arn not even really working the arm puller. Then Ric's slower than slow roll up for the headlock, and slow counter into the head scissors that Ric couldn't even be bothered to work before just popping out.

 

Awe, the great Ric Flair psychology. He transitions with a chop, so we're going to have a brawl with all that anger from Ric over how Arn hasn't shown him the proper respect so far in the match. Ric wanders around trying to figure out what to do next, with Arn kind of looking at him wondering what Ric wants to do next, than since he's not doing anything decides to get up. Ric continues to work the brawl concept with... oh... wait... he cuts Arn off with a thrust kick to the knee. Cool! Ric's going to work the knee! Arn figures that it's because he grabs the knee like's it's ACL damage just selling the fuck out of it beautifully! Ric presses the advantage by... wandering around the ring looking out at the crowd. Okay, that's just milking the crowd since they all know Ric is going to work the knee! Well... er... Arn finally had to stand up since Ric is doing nothing, but he's selling the fuck out of the knee, which Ric attacks like the ring master he is by... er... chopping him in the chest. Okay... so Arn is down selling... general damage because it's not like Ric can focus. Wait, Ric appears to be focused because he's dragging Arn up on the bad leg and forcing him back into the corner, where for sure he's going to at least stay focused on chopping the shit out of Arn, and maybe letting Arn turn him around like faces do and punch away at him...

 

No, Ric irish whips Arn across the ring into the other corner, which Arn counters out of to back elbow the charging Ric. Knee is fine on the run across, damage is a-o-kay as well. How do we know? Arn instantly climbs the ropes to do a move, and when Ric tries to toss him off the top, Arn rakes his eyes, jumps off the top onto his gimpy knee and slaps the sleeper onto Ric. Ric backs Arn into the corner causing the sleeper to break, at which point Arn hops (I mean... Fucking Hops) up onto the turnbuckle and delivers a jumping knee off the second ropes, landing one footed on the leg with the bad knee.

 

This is what happens when you wrestle Ric Flair. Just fucking go along with it because he Has Stuff To Do, regardless of whether his break can track from one item of Stuff to the next item of Stuff.

 

Arn goes back to working the arm, which makes sense as Ric ignored it before and will ignore it again when it comes time for him to Get His Shit in.

 

Arn's arm work is perfectly fine right up to the post shots and the armbreaker drop, but then it's time to doze off as he slaps on an aimless bar, doesn't work it, and Ric zones into fifth of gin selling. The ref is doing more for the hold by hopping down and trying to sell it for the two of them, but it's as interesting as the camera work that goes in a wide panning shot. Finally since it seems clear that Ric doesn't want to do anything with the hold, including sell much at all for it, Arn picks him up... well... Arn gets up, waits for Ric to get up too... looks out at the crowd... waits... Ric finally decides to get up.

 

Hey, it's time to forget the arm work instantly. Chops and punches, toss into the corner for the Flair flop and Arn, who has never seen this before, runs into flipping himself over the ropes! I know that Loss thinks that he was coming in with a clothesline, but the arm is out for like a second quite a few steps before Arn gets to the ropes and launches himself to the floor. Not only that, but any number of babyfaces have shown the proper way of clotheslining Ric after the corner bump: run along the ropes, which Arn had plenty of time to move over to position himself to do after he released Ric towards the corner. Wait, it's better... Flair comes off the top to the floor with an axehandle which Arn turns around into, which Arn never would have thought of since Ric when flipping over the corner onto the apron never goes to the turnbuckles to try something... wait, that is what Flair does a ton. So when he's against the barricade, if Arn had two cents for a brain, before wandering away from it he'd take a quick scan to see if Ric is on any of the turnbuckles.

 

Okay, I shouldn't get offended that the "Arn Anderson" character is a dumbass because it's not like he doesn't regularly do stupid shit in his matches over the past decade.

 

And hey! Ric hit something off the top rope for one of his rare occasions. We should all be happy.

 

Typical Ric getting his shit in here: stomping a mud hole, arguing with the ref, chops, drop the knee, jawing with the crowd, going for a pedestrian cover with his feet in the ropes for no reason (as in too fucking lazy to not save this for later when Arn has "pushed him to it"). I mean, do we even need Arn we're in a long stretch here where it's pretty much what Ric does / could do against any babyface opponent. This is Ric-Arn, when are we going to get some special shit in here?

 

Fuck me... it's worse than that. Ric works a Ric Transition in the corner with his shit blocked, Arn spinning him around, and Arn whipping him into the opposite corner and Ric coming out to eat a backbody drop.

 

I'm watching a Ric Flair Match and a Ric Flair Match has broken out since the early slap.

 

Ric cheats on a beg off for a counter, combined it with another of his favorite transitions (Ref stopping the face so that Ric can cheap shot the face behind the ref's back). And of course the Ref yells at Ric because he knows something is going on, and of course Ric is shaking his head, NOOOOOOOO! he didn't do anything.

 

Yep, it's a Ric Flair Match because he gets all aimless on us. He's targeting the stomach... no, tosses him outside for some dirty work... no, picks him up for a chop and a strut... no, Ric needs to make Arn look good, so he eats and eye rake and then runs into a back body drop on the floor... and since it's a Flair Match, Arn needs to be okay to quickly kick the shit out of Ric on the floor... no signs of any damage there.

 

Look... we do have to give it up to Arn. He has no trouble working a pedestrian standard Ric Flair Match, knowing when to just go with the shit, and when to ignore selling.

 

I'm being harsh?

 

Ric counters and vertical suplexes Arn on the floor. My Turn, Your Turn, My Turn...

 

Having just hit the vert on the floor, Ric goes with the eternal vert back in the ring. Except after doing it on the floor, walking around the ring, hitting a knock down punch in the ring, walking around the ring and picking up Arn, then hitting the eternal in the ring... Ric is now suddenly every bit as damaged in the ring as Arn, even more damaged then he was outside the ring when eating the backbody drop. It's pretty funny how well refreshed Ric is after the cover attempt has failed.

 

Ric's offense has degraded to such a degree that it's chops he's using for near falls. Hey, sunset flip and Ric punches the ground. Never seen that.

 

I'm mostly done with this thing, and I'm really still waiting for something fresh. Loss talked about the tired spots... they still are tired for me. Ric in the tree of woe? Arn choking an opponent in a tree of woe? Arn setting up the DDT right next to the ring ropes so an opponent can grab the ring ropes to hold on so that Arn can eat the bump (kind of cool the first dozen times he learned it but not just getting across that Arn is a Dumb Fuck). Ric taking the face first flop after that. Zzzzzzz...

 

Okay, here's the capper / crapper. After "blocked DDT" and the face first flop, Ric decided that the way to attack the downed Arn is to go to the top rope. Yep... Arn gets up and tosses Ric off the top.

 

Seriously... this is fresh?

 

Oh fuck me... Arn goes up to the second rope to hit his patented "I'm Trying For Something-Or-Other That I Never Hit So That The Opponent Can Whack Me!" spot.

 

Ric, who has spent all the match targeting the knee, works it over some more before slipping on the figure four.

 

No, wait... Arn is just laying there after his patented "I'm Trying For Something-Or-Other That I Never Hit So That The Opponent Can Whack Me!" spot, so Ric wanders around to slap on the figure four with no set up. Last either of them thought about the knee in the match was 18+ minutes ago when Arn realized Ric doing one strike to it didn't mean he really wanted Arn to sell it.

 

Alright, let's see if there's anything interesting in this... not really. I like Ric punching the knee a couple of times, but Arn reverses it right after that. From the reversal to the finish, with Pillman getting involved, are really brutal. For all of Arn's nice selling, the Magic Recovered timed just perfectly to DDT Ric after Pillman's strike are... eh.

 

Overall, Arn is perfectly fine as a face in a Ric Flair Match. Not great, not terribly exciting, but perfectly fine in being able to hit his marks after follow whatever plot lines Ric's silly brain careens across during the match. Ric is Ric, and this match is pretty much in the wheelhouse of why I'd perfectly be fine never watching a Ric Flair Match again.

 

I've said over the years that I didn't care for this match because it didn't bring the Hate that I wanted to see. There was a massive absence from this match of something that I wanted out of the two.

 

After re-watching it, I can add that with what it delivered: A Ric Flair Match. I didn't, and don't, want to watch Ric and Arn work (other than the first 1-2 minutes) a Ric Match. A pretty pedestrian, past Ric's prime version of it as well. I could watch any of dozens of Ric's matches that give me that, and most better.

 

This match back in 1995 needed more from me to consider it good. Nearly two decades later, it needs more from me to keep from boring the shit out of me in re-watch after 27+ years of watching Ric's stuff. Arn wanting to prove himself against Ric ? Eh. The concept of anyone "out wrestling" Ric was long past the freshness date, since everyone could out wrestle Ric and prove themselves against him. I need hatred there, a war, something that turned into something like the Starcade '90 street fight. It's Arn Anderson, the Enforcer as a "character". He's going to prove himself by wrestling a Ric Flair Match? That so doesn't work for me.

 

Is it a shitty match? No. Arn is Arn, which is solid. He’s being able to go with what his opponent bring to the table and wants to do. Ric is past his prime, narrowing what he does in a less interesting fashion, but still can work in a Get His Shit In / I've Got Stuff To Do fashion that keeps things moving along. It's competent, which remains wildly disappointing in concept and pretty boring in execution.

 

And yes... I do get the irony of that.

[Loss]

I appreciate you watching the match again and I enjoyed reading that, even if you ultimately came to the same conclusion. I don't think the way we see this match is going to be reconciled, and that's fine. I can't really dispute much in the specifics of your review (except criticism of Flair throwing chops when he's supposedly in the middle of leg work, as if it's somehow unfocused -- mixing in strikes in the middle of limb work is something that's fairly common across many styles, unless I misread your point). I'm just glad that you decided to give it another shot. At the very least, I can read that and have an even greater understanding of what bugs you about Flair these days. It's not even the stuff that gets dragged out the most. There were some points you raised that I don't recall you mentioning before that I think are interesting as it relates to both guys.

 

I know how you see these things. I get on you to watch more footage instead of relying on old opinions, so you do, and find that you still view whatever is being debated pretty much the same way. And then from me, you get crickets. I don't want that to happen this time, but I'm just not really sure how to respond to it. I want to say more because I don't want you to have that "crickets" perception, but I just don't really know what exactly to say at the moment.

 

I hope I'm motivated to come back to this at some point. That's the great thing about these threads.

[jdw]

I can't really dispute much in the specifics of your review (except criticism of Flair throwing chops when he's supposedly in the middle of leg work, as if it's somehow unfocused -- mixing in strikes in the middle of limb work is something that's fairly common across many styles, unless I misread your point).

He never was in the middle of leg work, except at the end after the figure four (and right before Pillman's interference). That was the point: it was the typical aimless Flair attack. Arn sold the hell out of the first strike to the knee early in the match: he went down like a ton of bricks, he reached for it and writhed, kind of waited for Ric to attack it more expecting that was the point... and when Ric ignored that (for the entire rest of the match until the end)... Arn was solid enough to just go with whatever aimless shit right wanted to get up to. It wasn't a case of this in 2-3 minutes:

 

* knee strike

* chop

* punch

* knee attack

* chop

* drop the knee to the head

* knee attack

 

Where we might invent in our minds a theme of Ric breaking down various parts of Arn's body while focusing on the knee. Instead it was:

 

* great strike to knee

* wandering off to do other things without going back to knee

 

I'm not saying Ric "has to work the knee" for it to be any good. Just pointing out that this is how Ric works a lot: it's a lot of aimless stuff tossed out rather than tied together. His psychology is just to Do Shit, then have Shit Done To Him, all of which create a string of things that Pop The Crowd.

 

That's not exactly horrible. It pops the crowd. But it's pretty much the same thing that folks would knock for spot workers, or indy workers, or NJ Juniors for tossing out spots to pop the crowd without worrying about any of it really tying together other than giving the crowd lots of Stuff to enjoy. Which is a point that I have tried to make for several years: Ric does most of the things that we rip the "workrate wretlers" for.

 

There were some points you raised that I don't recall you mentioning before that I think are interesting as it relates to both guys.

I'd would be interested in what would be new to you in my comments. It feels like a rehash of a lot of things that I've said over the years about Ric. I was as bored with myself in writing it as I was with the match... I'm trying to think of when the breaking point for myself as well as the match was, and I want to think it was this point:

 

I'm watching a Ric Flair Match and a Ric Flair Match has broken out since the early slap.

Which was sloppy as well of me since it should be:

 

I'm watching a Ric Flair match and a Ric Flair Match has broken out since the early slap.

 

At which point I hit "pause", banged my head against the wall, and tried to figure out if I wanted to keep watching and writing about the match. And I slagged through the rest of it.

 

 

I know how you see these things. I get on you to watch more footage instead of relying on old opinions, so you do, and find that you still view whatever is being debated pretty much the same way.

I don't always see what's being discussed in the same way as in the past. That was the point of the Warrior-Rude comment. I had an image in my head, and one that was pretty commonly held. I went into the last re-watch fully expecting to see it, and looking forward to tossing out lots of jokes about what a joke Warrior was. Instead, I was surprised by what I saw.

 

For the life of me, I can't remember how I saw the 1994 Hansen-Taue back in 1994. I didn't pimp it in the DVDVR poll of 90s AJPW. But it certainly didn't strike me in the same way it did on the last two watchings.

 

This match? Not so much. And that's entirely due to my current relationship with Flair.

 

 

And then from me, you get crickets. I don't want that to happen this time, but I'm just not really sure how to respond to it. I want to say more because I don't want you to have that "crickets" perception, but I just don't really know what exactly to say at the moment.

This isn't one where I'm really looking for a response. One of the reasons I buried it on the hard drive after writing it up. This doesn't add much to what I've said about Flair in the past. I don't think it's terribly relevant to anything I would want to write about Arn, and instead I'd probably seek out some of his tag work and some of that TV Title run earlier in decade to find those ***+ matches that back in the day we didn't talk about much because they weren't ****+. Those are likely to be things like Tito-Orndorff that I enjoy the simple solidness of now much more than in the 80/90s, and Arn strikes me as probably one of the stronger wrestlers in delivering that.

 

John

[El-P]

Last time I checked, it was just a *good match*. Which was blah for the big Flair vs Arn match. When I get to 1995, I'll see if I reevaluate.

Well, I did rewatch it in context that time, and I agree with a lot of things Loss said now. I don't know if I would go so far to say I thought it was great, but it was the best Flair matches in ages and yes, I thought the cliché spots looked fresh (as much as they can) in this context. I enjoyed this match so much more this time around. Really good stuff. Arn was pretty fantastic especially during the first half, and I enjoy older Ric throwing a hundred stiff chops like he's Tenryu.

[PeteF3]

Agreed with El-P on the "freshness" of the spots here even if they weren't actually fresh. And Flair throwing a wrinkle into the middle of the Flair Flip formula was genius, with a great bump by Arn over the top rope. Even though Anderson got a few bits of control mixed in afterward, that felt like a real turning point in the match, and Flair following up with an axhandle to the floor was icing on the cake. The finish is a little weak, but...well, it did have a nice pull-the-rug-out twist feeling to it and made you want to see where the hell this was going. And, as mentioned, it's always good to see Pillman doing something again. The GAB Savage match was better as far as Flair matches go, but this showed that he still had something.

 

Loved seeing the entire crowd rise when Arn got Ric in the small package off the second figure four attempt. One thing that can't be ignored is that this was a perfect location and perfect audience for this type of match to take place in.

[Superstar Sleeze]

The GAB Savage match is absolutely incredible. One of my favorites from either wrestler ever, it is without a doubt my WCW 1995 Match of the Year.

 

Ric Flair vs Arn Anderson - WCW Fall Brawl 1995

 

"If God Were A Pro Wrestler His Name Would Be Ric Flair", Amen, brutha amen. And look a Flair 3:16 sign! I have always fallen on the positive side of things in this controversial match because it was a compelling story between two men who said true to themselves from start to finish. The Enforcer is a double tough sumbitch that has been content (or proud) to be the Champion's best friend and protector. Anderson's game plan has always been to neutralize an opponent by taking a limb away rendering him powerless to be picked apart. We have seen this countless times in WCW especially in the amazing Dustin Rhodes Saturday Night 1992 match. Anderson could brawl, but he was a brawler per se. He wrestled with intent to maim and win. He was violent, but in an out or control frenetic way. He had purpose and that is every bit as violent as a bar room brawl. The story never called for Anderson to come in and tee off on Flair to beat him up. He wanted to prove his mettle against the measuring stick of pro wrestling and he was going to do it his way. He was going to take away Flair's arm and beat him down to humble him. He was going to prove he was every bit the pro wrestler that Ric Flair was and it could have been just easily him in that top spot.

 

Flair says it all in the beginning "Are you sure you want this?" You could interpret that two ways. It is Flair cocky as ever saying I am going to beat you 1-2-3 and you are going to look a fool. Or is it the Nature Boy that does not want to fight his friend. From the outset, Flair was shown up by his Enforcer on the mat and standing up. He would ball up those fists and get tagged in the face. It woke Flair up to the reality that he was in a fight with his best friend and if he did not get his ass in gear then he would be the one humiliated. It was not two men who loathed each other, it was their pride at stake. When the chips are down, Flair will do whatever it takes to win a match. In a stroke of genius, for over a decade, Ric Flair would go up and over the turnbuckles run down the apron and either he get struck or thrown off the top rope. On this night, Anderson expecting to deck the prone Nature Boy, Flair finally pulls down the ropes sending him head over heels onto the floor. It was such a great spot and finally the Dirtiest Player in the Game is on top and he ain't too proud to use a ref's distraction to take a cheapshot at Anderson. In a way, at this point, Anderson has won, he has proven that Flair would be forced to go into his bag of tricks to beat. Anderson was the better pure wrestler, but Flair was the better cheapshot artist. It was time for The Enforecer to get his hands dirty and on the floor he starts the rapid fire punching to the head. At about this point, they do lose me a bit because it does become a bit of the Flair show as they just start throwing shit out as part of the grand finale. Flair gets a suplex on the floor and then a delayed vertical, but then the next thing you know he is hanging upside down. Anderson goes for the DDT and Flair hooks the top rope, but then Flair is getting thrown off the top. The Figure-4 stuff was incredible and super heated. I loved Anderson blocking, the struggle, Flair spit and then Anderson fires up. Anderson did a great job selling the knee and just when you think it is over. Pillman whacks Flair and Anderson hits the DDT. The Enforcer beat the Nature Boy at his own game by calling in the reinforcements and having that all-important Plan B. My minor quibble aside about the run up to the finish, I thought this was a great match that stuck to the story and was a match that only these could work. Arn Anderson was Arn Anderson he was not the Flair opponent du jour. My major qualm with the match was that Flair was ostensibly the face coming in, worked heel in the match and then got turned full-on babyface by the finish. I know Flair's preference to work heel and I think it was the right call to have him wrestle match as a heel because it served the story better. It felt they were going for a double turn in the match and then finish cements where they were going into it. I have lessened on this because Anderson/Sting does not have the same cache as Flair/Sting teaming and it was a good desperation tactic by Anderson to tear a page out of Flair's book. I would put this over Pillman/Badd, which on rewatch felt really, really long and overwrought. This match had the heat and the big match atmosphere, but there were too many lulls and it never felt like they ratcheted all the way up to a real boiling point, which you would have loved to see. ****

[Mrzfn]

Put me in the camp that thinks this match is secretly great, in fact I'd say I enjoy it just about as much as anything in the US in 95.

[Zenjo]

Let's start with the finish, which was absolutely dreadful with no redeeming feature. Having got that out of the way, the rest of the contest was a real treat. There was the rarity value of seeing these two longtime friends go at it. The dynamic between them was so multi-layered and possibly even unique. The wrestling was good as well with the shifts in momentum being particularly well done. Some body part work from both. Everything was building up and coming together nicely before Pillman interferes and costs Flair the match. That cost it some spots in the global year end ranking, but it's still my favourite US bout of 1995.