Muppets on RAW

[S.L.L.]

The difference is that people pretty universally pan those things, but are saying this was awesome.

I understand your point. Rick Steiner menacing Chucky was one of the most retarded thing ever.

That said, it's a different case simply because it's the Muppets. Muppets are cool by definition, so people are willing to accept the fact that hell, it's a Muppet episode of Raw, and should be seen as such.

 

Does anybody remember what the critical consensus on them co-promoting the "Shaft" reboot by having Crash go to Shaft for protection was? I haven't thought about it in ages, and I might be insane, but I remember it being warmly received, at least compared to Rick Steiner meeting Chucky or Sting being saved from the Horsemen by Robocop.

 

Or what about Leslie Nielsen's segments during the Undertaker vs. Undertaker angle? That was the one of the only things about that angle that didn't totally shit the bed, and while they used the name "Leslie Nielsen", it was pretty obvious that he was playing it as Frank Drebin. Hell, thinking that was the actual Nielsen and not just his famous fictional character probably required more suspension of disbelief.

 

It seems to me - as Jerome alludes to - that what separates the Muppets, Leslie Nielsen, and Sam Jackson's take on Shaft (if I remembered that one correctly) from Chucky, Robocop, and Arliss isn't so much whether or not it's any more or less believable as whether or not it's any more or less entertaining. People are a lot more forgiving about unbelievable/impossible/downright stupid things in their professional wrestling if it's something they actually enjoy.

[Slasher]

The power was knocked out in most of the Northeast... probably a major contributor to lack of eyeballs on Raw...

[NintendoLogic]

I enjoyed the show, and I never even liked the Muppets that much. The matches were pretty good, and the backstage comedy was a step or two above their usual fare. Sure, it did an awful job at building up to Survivor Series. But it provided me with more entertainment than Chargers-Chiefs probably would have, and that's about as much as I can ask for these days.

[Coffey]

Chargers/Chiefs was actually a really good game. Went into overtime even.

 

(Good as in entertaining to watch, not high caliber football).

[FLIK]

Hm, so things that have gotten me to watch WWE in 2011

 

Royal Rumble being the Royal Rumble

Elimination Chamber being 20 mins from whear I live

People pimping Chris Masters miraculously not sucking any more

CM Punk wining the belt off Cena

The Muppets

 

The Muppets were awesome in every segment so I got what I wanted out of that. Brodus Clay vid was cool, Ziggler vs Ryder and ADR vs Bir Show were both good. The rest of the show ranged from boring to stupid, especially the last match with Cena & Miz (how does a kick to the stomach make you jump up and land on your butt?). Real chore to get through minus a few bright spots and took me 2 days to finish watching it all.

[khawk20]

He loves Buster Keaton and Laurel and Hardy stuff too.

If he likes L and H you have to get the new 10-disc set that just came out. I picked it up on Amazon and it's phenomenal. tons of good stuff that you just don't see on the tube anymore.

[cm funk]

I thought the Muppets were harmless fun and I don't see how they damaged the promotions credibility any more than most of the goofy angles they do. Everybody watching knows it's entertainment, and knows when the switch goes from fun to serious. You can have your lighthearted comedy on the card and still do serious angles on top.

 

My problem is that they are really bad at their serious angles. I mean, there was so much to nitpick at regarding the booking of the show.....a match that did nothing for your dominant world champion, Del Rio losing clean to the guy challenging for the other belt, Cena handling Truth and Miz with ease......that's your top 3 matches for Survivor Series all lessened in importance. There was so many dumb decisions made, the Muppets were really the least of their problems.

 

I really have no idea how that kind of stuff isn't immediately shot down in the booking meetings. Maybe some of the writers don't get why those things are counter-productive, but surely there's people in that room who know better.

[Jingus]

I really have no idea how that kind of stuff isn't immediately shot down in the booking meetings. Maybe some of the writers don't get why those things are counter-productive, but surely there's people in that room who know better.

By all accounts, most of the writers have practically zero say over what goes into the show. Vince requires all of them to write their own individual scripts for Raw every week, and then cherry-picks whichever bits he likes best.

[Bob Morris]

The difference is that people pretty universally pan those things, but are saying this was awesome.

I understand your point. Rick Steiner menacing Chucky was one of the most retarded thing ever.

That said, it's a different case simply because it's the Muppets. Muppets are cool by definition, so people are willing to accept the fact that hell, it's a Muppet episode of Raw, and should be seen as such.

 

Does anybody remember what the critical consensus on them co-promoting the "Shaft" reboot by having Crash go to Shaft for protection was? I haven't thought about it in ages, and I might be insane, but I remember it being warmly received, at least compared to Rick Steiner meeting Chucky or Sting being saved from the Horsemen by Robocop.

 

Or what about Leslie Nielsen's segments during the Undertaker vs. Undertaker angle? That was the one of the only things about that angle that didn't totally shit the bed, and while they used the name "Leslie Nielsen", it was pretty obvious that he was playing it as Frank Drebin. Hell, thinking that was the actual Nielsen and not just his famous fictional character probably required more suspension of disbelief.

 

It seems to me - as Jerome alludes to - that what separates the Muppets, Leslie Nielsen, and Sam Jackson's take on Shaft (if I remembered that one correctly) from Chucky, Robocop, and Arliss isn't so much whether or not it's any more or less believable as whether or not it's any more or less entertaining. People are a lot more forgiving about unbelievable/impossible/downright stupid things in their professional wrestling if it's something they actually enjoy.

 

This leads me to wonder... what if the Muppets appeared on TNA? Does it rule because it's the Muppets or does it suck because it's TNA?

 

I missed the show so I won't comment on it, but I think what Loss and others are really trying to say is this:

 

A human appearing on The Muppet Show works because it's the human adapting to the world of the Muppets.

 

The Muppet movies see the Muppets and humans living in the same world and people accept that.

 

But when the Muppets are the guests on another show, it's up to the writers of that show to make it work so it will generally be accepted by all.

 

Now, again, I won't comment on the show itself, but I think we've all gone over how many times WWE Creative just can't keep itself focused on how to put a good show together for whatever the reason may be. I suspect if they were better at their jobs in general (or if Vince wouldn't be so much of a control freak), they might be able to come up with something to make the Muppets interacting with the wrestlers to be something that allows nearly every fan to suspend disbelief.

 

It's just tricky to get the Muppets worked into any show outside of the Muppet realm. You just have to get the proper context to make it work... and if people here felt they did, then that's good. For those that didn't, well, then that's probably more a sign of how flawed WWE Creative remains.

[Loss]

Bob, you summed it up well. I will say that based on the comments from others in this thread and the general reception of their appearance on Raw, I'm alone in feeling that way and I'm okay with that. I'm glad people liked it. I wish I had.