One and Only Demolition Thread

[goodhelmet]

Still looking for the great Demolition match that was great because of Demolition.

That is easy when you do not want to find it.

This is bogus. We are actively searching for great matches. I dont waste my time looking for bad matches. From the matches we have watched, I wouldn't call any of them great. Still looking for one. Hell, we found an awesome Big John Studd match. We found Kamala's best match ever. We discovered a great series of Piper-Orndorff matches. I still have hope for Demolition.

[rzombie1988]

I don't know what's not to like about the Demos.

I don't know what's not to like about Megumi Kudo.

 

She wasn't up to par with 80% of the girls of her time until her last two years. She wasn't even the best women's wrestler in FMW until Combat retired. Watch any of the big AJW cards and it's pretty obvious where she stands in comparison. Take her looks away and she's got nothing until the last two years.

[Loss]

You mean, like Demolition compared to the Rockers, Steiners, Midnight Express, Rock & Rolls, Samoan Swat Team, Arn & Tully, Foot Loose, etc.?

[Chess Knight]

We found Kamala's best match ever.

WHAT IS IT!? I don't want to throw the thread of track, but..... I'm genuinely excited at the prospect of really good Kamala. I seemingly like the Andre cage more than anybody else.

 

On the subject of Demolition, WWE's tag team DVD from 2009 or 2010 has a Dems/Bees match that I really, really liked when I first watched it. I've never found Demolition to be particularly good or bad either way. I was always more apathetic to the Hart Foundation matches than most people.

[rzombie1988]

You mean, like Demolition compared to the Rockers, Steiners, Midnight Express, Rock & Rolls, Samoan Swat Team, Arn & Tully, Foot Loose, etc.?

I don't see anything wrong with putting Demolition in that list. I don't know about Footloose. I'm not an MX fan unless its Stan/Bobby or the OMX and I think Demolition are way way better than the SST. No shame in falling short of The Rockers and The Brainbusters, but Demolition fit right in with them in their matches and beats them on versatility. Loved the Demolition vs Rockers matches. Demolition seemed to be able to work with just about anyone and have a decent match. They also worked fine as either faces or heels which is something they are going to have on a ton of teams, since alot of the teams above didn't switch roles. You could put the Demos against Big men, you could put them against small men, you could do the powerhouse matchups, you could have the Demos be faces or you could have the Demos be heels and they excelled. You can't do that with all of those teams and make it work so well. Really, I don't know if there is any other team that could be in all of those roles and make it believeable.

 

I'm totally not a Hart Foundation fan though. That's one team I never got.

 

I'm just going to say though that personal preferences towards wrestlers affects finding good things from the wrestlers. It's natural and unavoidable no matter how impartial you may think you are. It just helps to like a wrestler when finding their good matches. It makes you look at everything in a different light. I may not be able to convince you that the Demo's were great but you aren't going to convince me that Tiger Mask was as he was made out to be.

[Victator]

You mean, like Demolition compared to the Rockers, Steiners, Midnight Express, Rock & Rolls, Samoan Swat Team, Arn & Tully, Foot Loose, etc.?

Demolition are better than Rockers, Steiners, SST and Footloose (who I was not overly impressed with). Equal to RnR, Midnights and Arn/Tully. None of those teams could equal Demolition in the WWF environment and Demolition would be of easily been great in NWA/AWA/WCCW Etc.

 

 

Rockers match from MSG is a great match. Hart Foundation match from SS 88 is. Also the Arn/Tully MSG match.

 

But this point we are running laps.

[rzombie1988]

Count me in for the Demos vs HF at SS88. I loved that match and I enjoyed the finish.

[goodhelmet]

Rockers match from MSG is a great match. Hart Foundation match from SS 88 is. Also the Arn/Tully MSG match.

 

But this point we are running laps.

For the project, the Rockers match is nominated. May or may not make the set but not a lock. I didn't care for the MSG match so someone else will have to push it through. Need to rewatch the SS 88 match. At this point, what you and I consider great are on polar opposites so we may never remedy the situation. I found it laughable that someone thinks they are on equal footing with RNR and the MX much less every single team you listed. That just boggles my mind. I may have to lock this thread because we have reached a point where nothing productive can happen from this point forward (except the Loss super post if he chooses to do one).

[Cross Face Chicken Wing]

Share more info on the Kamala match before locking anything. I've always loved Kamala.

[rzombie1988]

Rockers match from MSG is a great match. Hart Foundation match from SS 88 is. Also the Arn/Tully MSG match.

 

But this point we are running laps.

For the project, the Rockers match is nominated. May or may not make the set but not a lock. I didn't care for the MSG match so someone else will have to push it through. Need to rewatch the SS 88 match. At this point, what you and I consider great are on polar opposites so we may never remedy the situation. I found it laughable that someone thinks they are on equal footing with RNR and the MX much less every single team you listed. That just boggles my mind. I may have to lock this thread because we have reached a point where nothing productive can happen from this point forward (except the Loss super post if he chooses to do one).

 

I see no reason to lock the thread. I totally welcome more challengers and I think Vic would too. I think Vic has done a good job.

 

I'd rather watch the Demos than the RnR's or the Condrey/Eaton MX. Again, it's the versatility that the Demos would have the big advantage on.

[Victator]

I actually love every one of those teams. Trying to say the Steiners are better is a joke. At that point you might as well rank Rob Van Dam above Jerry Lawler.

 

Steiners had no sense of structure and just run thru spots, leaving it up to the other teams to corral them. The Road Warriors and Nasty Boys are way better and I would not put them above Demolition either. Hell I love the Steiners and enjoy watching them maul guys. But what is the argument for them being better?

 

They had the advantage of working WCW and NJPW and could not outdo Demolition. They are just spot guys.

 

Samoan Swat Team is a damn good team. They have a great arsenal of moves, while actually being able to structure a match. But I don't think they are better.

 

Nobody really has any arguments against Demolition's work. Me and Matt have went over why we consider them great over and over. Nobody disputes it, they just ignore it.

[Loss]

Versatility? Aren't they all pretty much 15-20 minute midcard tag matches? Where are the gimmick matches? Where are the matches outside the WWF? Can you see them work against teams that come from different eras where the style has changed? Is there a good sampling of matches available with them facing singles stars who didn't really team regularly? I don't blame them for those things so much, but when comparing them to the other teams of their era, I don't see how variety is a strong point. The Midnights (especially the Condrey/Eaton version), Rock & Rolls, Fantastics, Road Warriors and others have quite a bit of variety.

[Loss]

I actually love every one of those teams. Trying to say the Steiners are better is a joke. At that point you might as well rank Rob Van Dam above Jerry Lawler.

 

Steiners had no sense of structure and just run thru spots, leaving it up to the other teams to corral them. The Road Warriors and Nasty Boys are way better and I would not put them above Demolition either. Hell I love the Steiners and enjoy watching them maul guys. But what is the argument for them being better?

 

They had the advantage of working WCW and NJPW and could not outdo Demolition. They are just spot guys.

 

Samoan Swat Team is a damn good team. They have a great arsenal of moves, while actually being able to structure a match. But I don't think they are better.

 

Nobody really has any arguments against Demolition's work. Me and Matt have went over why we consider them great over and over. Nobody disputes it, they just ignore it.

Right or wrong, sometimes it seems like the things Demolition receives praise for are things every single tag team in the company was doing at the time.

[Johnny Sorrow]

Oh for Christ's sake. Demolition stunk because Bill Eadie looked ridiculous as soon as he took off the cool studded black hood and revealed a middle aged guy in clown makeup with his hair slicked back.

 

Sorry.

[Victator]

Versatility? Aren't they all pretty much 15-20 minute midcard tag matches? Where are the gimmick matches? Where are the matches outside the WWF? Can you see them work against teams that come from different eras where the style has changed? Is there a good sampling of matches available with them facing singles stars who didn't really team regularly? I don't blame them for those things so much, but when comparing them to the other teams of their era, I don't see how variety is a strong point. The Midnights (especially the Condrey/Eaton version), Rock & Rolls, Fantastics, Road Warriors and others have quite a bit of variety.

That is the point, Demolition created variety with limited resources. Its easy to create a new meal every day with a full pantry. Demolition created variety with cheeseburger helper. I don't think any of those teams could have did as well in the WWF.

 

Or to put it another way. I'm more impressed with the guy that finished third in a race with a bag of rocks on his back, than the guy who won.

 

They created something new every time out. They did it with very disparate teams. From Andre/Haku to the Rockers and had good matches.

 

Right or wrong, sometimes it seems like the things Demolition receives praise for are things every single tag team in the company was doing at the time.

Demolition was doing it a million times better. Most guys were not doing those little things right, much less doing them right, In the WWF or anywhere else. They are too concerned with stooging, bumping and getting their moves in than properly building the match.

[Victator]

Oh for Christ's sake. Demolition stunk because Bill Eadie looked ridiculous as soon as he took off the cool studded black hood and revealed a middle aged guy in clown makeup with his hair slicked back.

 

Sorry.

WRONG

[goodhelmet]

Oh for Christ's sake. Demolition stunk because Bill Eadie looked ridiculous as soon as he took off the cool studded black hood and revealed a middle aged guy in clown makeup with his hair slicked back.

 

Sorry.

WRONG

 

I agree with Vic. Demolition did not stink because of Bill Eadie.

[Loss]

Just rewatched the MSG match. I was way off on it. It's a very good match, and I really liked it on a second viewing. They cut a good pace and Arn and Tully took some fun bumps and fed offense to Demolition really, really well. But the heel in peril stuff lasted a little too long, and when Ax starts repeating the axehandle spot, you kinda want them to just move to the next section of the match already. I thought Arn and Tully did a great job in working over Ax, but I really, really hated the way they distracted Smash right as he was about to get a hot tag, as it made him look stupid and didn't even get any heat. But I was too harsh on this match.

 

I'm still not sold, but I am not ready to write Demolition off either. My takeaway was that Arn and Tully were infinitely better than probably every tag team in the U.S. that has followed them, and that Ax is smart in the ring, but his stuff doesn't look really good. Meanwhile, Smash is not smart in the ring, but is more physically capable of carrying a match. I also enjoyed the heels taking hard bumps for Ax's weak clotheslines, but it looked like he just kinda tapped him in the stomach to get his attention.

 

I'll watch the Rockers match tomorrow.

[Johnny Sorrow]

Oh for Christ's sake. Demolition stunk because Bill Eadie looked ridiculous as soon as he took off the cool studded black hood and revealed a middle aged guy in clown makeup with his hair slicked back.

 

Sorry.

WRONG

 

I agree with Vic. Demolition did not stink because of Bill Eadie.

 

You know what I mean. Eadie was a great wrestler. He looked cool as fuck as the Masked Superstar. As Axe...he looked stupid. Darsow looked somewhat better as Smash, but he sucked.

[Matt D]

Just rewatched the MSG match. I was way off on it. It's a very good match, and I really liked it on a second viewing. They cut a good pace and Arn and Tully took some fun bumps and fed offense to Demolition really, really well. But the heel in peril stuff lasted a little too long, and when Ax starts repeating the axehandle spot, you kinda want them to just move to the next section of the match already. I thought Arn and Tully did a great job in working over Ax, but I really, really hated the way they distracted Smash right as he was about to get a hot tag, as it made him look stupid and didn't even get any heat. But I was too harsh on this match.

 

I'm still not sold, but I am not ready to write Demolition off either. My takeaway was that Arn and Tully were infinitely better than probably every tag team in the U.S. that has followed them, and that Ax is smart in the ring, but his stuff doesn't look really good. Meanwhile, Smash is not smart in the ring, but is more physically capable of carrying a match. I also enjoyed the heels taking hard bumps for Ax's weak clotheslines, but it looked like he just kinda tapped him in the stomach to get his attention.

 

I'll watch the Rockers match tomorrow.

Up with the baby so sorry if this is incoherent.

 

This is a lot more even. Thank you for the rewatch. Not everyone would do that. Not everyone on this board would do that. It works even better in context. There's a reason why Demolition is so pissed off. Personally I am such a proponent of smart workers and playing a role (i.e. taking just enough and giving just enough that I admit Eadie being really smart is a huge part of the appeal. Wrestling is symbolic so that the offense worked for the crowd works for me. That is just me and really, a lot of times what they do DOES look good on top of that. I think Darsow shows huge improvement from when he started the gimmick; he learns over time, though I realize this is a couple of years in, but in some matches you can tell more and his physicality balances things. I still do get frustrated when he does something that's not foolproof but they tag pretty frequently when on top and Eadie is DEFINITELY directing traffic most matches.

 

For the Rockers match notice how they can turn up the pace while selling. Watching Eadie on triple speed because the match calls for it is sort of amazing. Also, if you're going to watch a third match, I suggest the 88 Hart Foundation match. If you watch that, check out how Demos treat a much higher on the totem pole face team on a much higher stage. It doesn't make sense for Eadie to beg off on Jannetty so he doesn't. When he does it for Bret at an appropriate moment, it therefore becomes a huge deal. That speaks to the versatility. They could play FIP vs the Twin Towers because it made sense or they could be pissed off and dominant against cheating technical heels like the Brainbusters. They could turn up the pace with the Rockers but could also stooge off against the Harts. Their matches against different teams generally feel different, and they even change things up when wrestling the same team. Watching the Towers series is interesting in what they do differently with different matches in the series.

 

Great matches, maybe? But over time they (and I realize it's mostly Eadie from a mental standpoint yes) do things that I've rarely seen WWF wrestlers of the era do. When I started to appreciate Demolition matches, it was when I was watching a lot of MSG/Boston/MLG/Philly shows one after the next so I was seeing the whole roster go through their stuff. The Demolition matches were surprisingly compelling and varied wildly in structure from match to match which surprised me as I had a pretty negative preconceived notion and not a lick of nostalgia I started to delve deeper. The things that stay constant is that they make their opponents work for every bit of offense, every bit of relief, and every hot tag, and that in and of itself almost forms its own story. It's pretty cool.

 

Anyway, Thanks again for the consideration. You exasperated the heck out of me before.

[rzombie1988]

Versatility? Aren't they all pretty much 15-20 minute midcard tag matches? Where are the gimmick matches? Where are the matches outside the WWF? Can you see them work against teams that come from different eras where the style has changed? Is there a good sampling of matches available with them facing singles stars who didn't really team regularly? I don't blame them for those things so much, but when comparing them to the other teams of their era, I don't see how variety is a strong point. The Midnights (especially the Condrey/Eaton version), Rock & Rolls, Fantastics, Road Warriors and others have quite a bit of variety.

As I said, they could work almost every role and fit in with any opponent they had. They went from people like the Rockers to The Colossal Connection and had something for everyone. You could put them at face or heel and it was going to work in every situation.

 

The Demos really didn't have many gimmick matches besides some handicap matches and a cage match in 1991. Then again, no tag team in the WWF did at that time. Blame the booking for that one.. I'd have been up for a Demo's street fight or cage match though. The Demo's did do some main events and were put in a Survivor Series main event. The Demos didn't get a chance to go outside of the WWF but that's because they were a WWF creation obviously and they were happy there since they were the top team on a worldwide stage. Honestly, a move for them wouldn't have made any sense. That would be a silly thing to blame the Demos for. They took on tons of teams though from other companies like the PoP's, the Rockers, The Bulldogs, The Brainbusters, The Roadies(in 6-man's) plus the Tenryu/Kitao match which was different.

 

As I've been saying the whole time, they excelled at working matches where the teams styles changed. Just take a look at the list above. Going from the Brainbusters to the Rockers to Andre and Haku is changing styles. I can't see a situation where the Demo's wouldn't work. Put them in the NWA and you'd get the dream Roadies/Demos feud, you'd get a really interesting match with Doom, you'd get them doing really great stuff with the RnR's(them being on Ricky Morton would be fun) and you'd even get an interesting Russians vs Demos match. Put them in the AWA and you'd get the High Flyers/Demos, a strong Destruction Crew vs Demos match and a surely fun Badd Company vs Demos match. Move them down to WCCW and you'd get a fun series with the Von Erichs, a good Fantastics match and they'd probably even make a Freebirds/Demolition match work. I think Terry Gordy would work great against them. Going to memphis and you'd get a seriously awesome Moondogs/Demo's match which would have the extra flavor of Demolitions colliding, you'd get a darn good Fabs/Demos match, you would get an amazing Sheepherders/Demos brawl and a Lawler/Dundee vs Demos match would be choice. Now, I think the Demo's missed out by not going to Memphis. In Continental, you'd get some fun Armstrong vs Demos matches, the Stud Stable(come on Buck and Fuller against the Demo's? Sign me up!) and the Nightmares which would have been an interesting face paint battle. Seriously, put these guys anywhere and it would work.

[rzombie1988]

Here's the Demolition DVDVR thread:

http://board.deathvalleydriver.com/index.php?showtopic=51663

[S.L.L.]

The "too fat" argument is a perception argument from watching them live when they actually wrestled. As a kid, after seeing the Road Warriors, it was hard to take them seriously when the Roadies were ripping shit up in Crockett. Hell, I hated Dick Murdoch and BuddyRose on my tv screen too when iwas a kid. I thought Murdoch was too fucking old and Rose was a fucking slob. As an adult, I have both firmly entrenched in my Top Ten wrestlers of all time. Still looking for the great Demolition match that was great because of Demolition.

That's all good and well for a 10-year-old. What about the adults who make the same complaint but don't apply the standard as evenly as you did as a kid?

 

Too gay? Who made that argument?

 

Too silly? I never made that argument.

You're not the only person who's ever complained about Demolition, Will.

 

"Too gay" I admittedly can't think of any specific incidents to point to other than some guy recently saying that watching Demolition matches was something he was especially ashamed of because of the S&M look, and he was afraid of people walking in on him watching them, but I don't remember where that was, and a cursory trip through the search engine isn't bringing it up. Either way, I've heard enough people deride them for the leather daddy look to know it's an issue with some people.

 

Regarding "too silly", I had an extended argument with Jerome about a year ago after he said that Demolition's act was "laughable to anyone over the age of 12". Probably true insofar as wrestling itself is laughable to anyone over the age of 12, but he disagreed with me on that point, and never really explained to my satisfaction how "big tough guy brawler in face paint" was somehow an unusually cartoonish gimmick by wrestling standards. The best he managed was to compare them to Brutus Beefcake, because "overly excitable guy with tassles and a prop" is apparently also an unusually cartoonish gimmick by wrestling standards.

 

But really, they are the John Cena's of tag team, once you're above 12 years old, Demolition's gimmick is a bit laughable.

Yes, they are the John Cena of tag teams...in that John Cena is also a guy who people make weird as fuck complaints about based on standards that they never apply to anybody else.

[S.L.L.]

Oh for Christ's sake. Demolition stunk because Bill Eadie looked ridiculous as soon as he took off the cool studded black hood and revealed a middle aged guy in clown makeup with his hair slicked back.

It's bad enough that you're gonna get beaten up and raped. But by CLOWNS? That's extra scary!

[Cross Face Chicken Wing]

I am extremely intoxicated right now. I'm going to watch some Demolition matches and see if they are any better drunk than sober. Because sober, they are pretty goddam terrible. And really gay. I like the masks, though.