Guest Andrews Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 That's exactly what it was. We ask Johnny about that outright and discuss some other criticisms of the movie on episode 40 of the Wrestling Culture Podcast which went up today. Listening to this now and it's cool, the guy who made it is coming across really really well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childs Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 I enjoyed the film and am glad they got to finish it. But I agree with those who don't see much potential for an audience beyond wrestling fans. If I had to sum up the arc of their story it's: company builds a passionate cult audience by embracing the most unsettling elements of its craft, ultimately can't sustain itself because of the same people and decisions that made it a phenomenon. That's a workable arc, but to sell it to a wider audience, I think they would need to draw out three or four indelible characters who dramatize the excitement, the hopes and the human cost when it all fell apart. Instead, they went for a broad survey of people involved with ECW. Many of those people said interesting things, but the central story became muddled at times. In comparing it to the World Class doc, they didn't find any hook as ready as the Von Erich family tragedy or any character as haunting as a middle-aged Kevin Von Erich, walking through the ruins of the Sportatorium. And that film didn't find much audience outside wrestling, as far as I know. But that all sounds way too negative. They did a bunch of things well: 1) They used the arena footage to convey how wild the shows were. 2) They captured the atmosphere of mania, deceit and paranoia as the company fell apart. 3) They crafted a good mini-profile of Tony Lewis to show how much the fans cared. 4) They included a lyrical little montage at the end, showing all the key ECW performers who later died. 5) They managed a pretty convincing depiction of Paul E. without talking Paul E. Things I wasn't as hot on: 1) They overused the Extreme Reunion footage. They were smart to use some of it to show the toll ECW took on its performers and the enduring passion of the fans. But the detailed dissection of Extreme Reunion booking served no purpose. And they did nothing to put the Sabu footage in context or explain why it was meaningful. 2) They used too many talking heads. They generally did a clever job of using the journalists in lieu of a narrator. But they would have been better off letting seven or eight strong voices carry the film instead of bringing in a Missy Hyatt here or a Bruce Mitchell there or a Jerry Lynn out of leftfield. 3) The film opened weaker than it needed to with the reunion footage and too much detail about Eddie Gilbert. They would have been better off starting us right in the heart of ECW at its peak and describing the inextricability of its success and doom. Then they could have backtracked to the beginning of the story. Things I wanted to hear more about: 1) How exactly did they decide to go in the more "extreme" direction? Was that all Heyman? 2) What role did drugs play at the peak of the promotion? 3) Others have said this but what about the women and the fans' troubling embrace of violence against them? I've rambled on here. But I would encourage any wrestling fan to watch it. It's one of the better wrestling docs (I'd put it behind World Class and Wrestling with Shadows and in a different category than any of the WWE releases) and attempts to reckon with the truths of ECW in a way Rise and Fall did/could not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WrestlingPower Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 I don't think he retired at any point in 1994. He did the draw with Funk on the first ECW card of the year, and the second was The Night The Line Was Crossed. Other than November to Remember 1993, it looks like he was working all of the ECW Arena cards after coming into the promotion in August 1993. Now it was a pissant promotion not working many shows at the time, so he probably could teach while also working the monthly Arena cards. But he had won the title quickly in 1993, and with the belt passing to Sabu and then to Funk, it set up the early 1994 three-way storyline. There is something a bit tragic in Shane because he probably could have gotten out early and a normal, sane life. But he turned 29 at the end of 1993, he'd been in pro wrestling since 1982 with a lot more lows than ups, so he clearly had the bug and was just waiting for each little breadcrumb to justify continuing down that path. Things like the Dynamic Dudes and the partnership with Steamer opposite Pillman & Austin were just enough to justify it for him. It's hard to imaging him ever letting go. John Ok I guess I had my timeline messed up, it was 1993 then not 1994. Details are hazy as to Shane's career trajectory post-WCW run but I seem to remember that when ECW brought him in (as you say Aug. 93) to do The Franchise, at that point I thought he was contemplating retirement & going to med school. Keep in mind the original Franchise character was to be one wearing various sports jerseys. I think it was when the heel character took off & they put him with Sherri that he decided to put his real life back on hold for wrestling. But yeah, I'm fuzzy on how much of 1992/3 Shane was looking for that breadcrumb. I guess he got injured in WCW at some point & was kind of out of the biz until ECW right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted May 1, 2013 Report Share Posted May 1, 2013 BWC gets reviewed by the Review A Wai podcast http://fightnetwork.com/news/podcasts/ Direct download: http://www.podbean.com/podcast-download?b=...d-Wire-City.mp3 The hosts have made a few documentaries themselves for The Fight Network so an unique perspective offered here. Fun podcast series in general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm funk Posted May 2, 2013 Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 Sorry, but wrestling is so niched and ECW even more so, I just don't see any non fans getting into it unless they were sitting with a wrestling fan buddy who went "Hey dude, check this cool thing out." That was my point, not necessarily that they are inviting people to go do stuff. A wrestling fan who isn't familiar with ECW (younger crowd or late comers) might feel inspired to look further into the legend of ECW but a non fan? Not likely. Therefore they probably could have gotten away with showing the fuller story without omitting footage or whatever out of some misguided sense of keeping it clean for an audience that doesn't exist or if they do, comprise of the way out minority. Edit: just to clarify, I don't care if they showed the Mass Transit incident footage or not. And I don't really have a dog in this issue at all but I was just lending my support to Andrews's idea that the DVD is meant for fans moreso than non fans. That is all. It's definitely meant for fans first from what I can tell (haven't seen it yet) but I assume the film makers want to shop it around to various festivals where the people seeing it and judging it will not be wrestling fans. If it gets any sort of acclaim or awards it will find a wider audience. Beyond the Mat is a perfect example of that, or even Wrestling with Shadows which was shown on cable tv (AMC? I can't remember, but I taped it off tv) many times. I have no idea if it's good enough to go beyond the hardcore wrestling fan audience, but I assume they'll at least try Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyonthewall2983 Posted May 2, 2013 Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 Wrestling With Shadows was on A&E. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted May 2, 2013 Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 That aired during *the* boom period. The same period that allowed Vince to go public and lead to practically double digit hours of weekly prime time wrestling. Everyone was hot for wrestling and looking to ride the wave. Wrestling With Shadows was awesome but also professional and came with a stamp of credibility that let A&E pick it up. I don't think A&E picks it up in 2013. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted May 3, 2013 Report Share Posted May 3, 2013 Looking back, A&E really went wrestling crazy at the time, with multiple Biography episodes and that Unreal Story of Pro Wrestling doc they ran a million times, on top of airing Wrestling With Shadows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted May 3, 2013 Report Share Posted May 3, 2013 I loved that "Unreal Story" special. I didn't care about the inaccuracies or telling of old bullshit stories. It was an entertaining two hours of TV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted May 8, 2013 Report Share Posted May 8, 2013 Generous and unexpected praise from Joey: One for the promotional material. Just occurred to me that thought out the process I never thought about Joey whether it be his inclusion in the doc or what he would think of it. I don't think he was brought up in any interview either. Somewhat odd when you think about it. He really has become WWE wallpaper I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Liska Posted May 9, 2013 Report Share Posted May 9, 2013 Interesting that he would specifically place it above the WWE-produced DVD by saying it tells the story of "The Rise and Fall of ECW". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.