Top 100 List

[Coffey]

A lot of different ways to approach this thread as far as replies are concerned. I'm trying to spark debate & discussion but this thread is also going to be my personal playground for compiling my personal list. So, here goes:

 

 

We've talked about Shawn Michaels & John Cena. We have been critical of others like Kurt Angle or Triple H. I have seen several threads, not just here but on others forums as well, discussing "The List" as it pertains to personal favorites/greatest wrestlers ever.

 

I would like to use this thread to credit or discredit various wrestlers. To hear differing viewpoints on stars of years past and potentially remind me of moments/matches that I may have over-looked, never seen or simply forgotten.

 

Right now, I can't even get to 100, let alone start cutting guys. So I think I'm going to stop at 50 & go from there. Once I have a definitive list written out, I can just update it over time & if I bump someone, they can move down instead of off the list completely, so that my list can grow from there.

 

Not to steal the thunder of anyone else, but we could compare the wrestlers to Triple H, Shawn Michaels, John Cena & Kurt Angle as a starting point.

 

I'm finally putting pen-to-paper & making a definitive list of my Top 50 favorite pro-wrestlers, as it pertains to an in-ring perspective. That way, when someone asks, be it in person or on-line, I can simply consult my list & give an answer, using my list as the reference. I can simply update my list, both the names & the numbers over time.

 

This is a project that I have wanted to take on for awhile but I kept putting it off as it seems like a daunting task that will ultimately probably prove to be pretty fruitless, but I have an abundance of time & while thinking about some wrestlers today, I finally wanted to do it.

 

Thoughts on the following wrestlers:

(these are guys that I have been thinking about lately)

• Hulk Hogan
• Roddy Piper
• Sean Waltman
• Lex Luger
• Scott Hall
• Scott Steiner
• Jake Roberts
• John Tenta
• Magnum T.A.

Is it unfair to hold a style against a wrestler? As an example, guys like Earthquake, One Man Gang or King Kong Bundy worked a big man style, so do you only compare them to other big men, like Big Van Vader? By that same token, do you compare cruiserweight/light-heavyweight wrestlers to other guys of their style or the Lucha style or just to everyone as a whole? I'm asking not as a yes/no matter-of-fact question but how you guys specifically feel. How about tag workers?

 

I know in the HBK thread, Loss listed several women in his favorite list. So maybe that can be a talking point as well. Are you only as strong a worker as the talent that you're given to work with? The Undertaker has had some good WWE style main events lately but I don't think anyone was trying to call him a good worker when he was a no-selling zombie working with guys like Giant Gonzales.

 

Another idea I had, although not one I would want to be in charge of, a "tournament" or sorts, where people submit ballots with their Top 10 lists of wrestlers & we give a weighted point system to wrestlers based on their number on lists. Like #1 on a list would be worth 10 points, #2 worth 9 points, etc. & then add up all the scores at the end to form a ProwrestlingOnly.com List.

[Coffey]

(this post for future reference)

 

A few notes for me, personally:

• I have very limited knowledge & exposure to female pro-wrestlers, especially before 2005 (this will explain my exclusion of them, I'm just ignorant to them)
• I have almost zero knowledge & exposure to Lucha Libre. I have tried to start watching more recently.
• I have watched pro-wrestling since 1987, started with WWF.
• I don't know if I have ever seen a Memphis match that didn't have Jerry Lawler in it
• I want to base my list on in-ring so as not to exclude wrestlers from non-English speaking promotions

EDIT: I'm at right around 40 so far & I'm not sure if wrestlers of today suck or if I'm just horribly biased but I think the "newest" guy on my list is Rey Mysterio, Jr. I don't think anyone from the last fifteen or so years is on it yet, & I'm not sure if that's wrong... Maybe that's the difference between working territories or in other countries, or just being brought up from developmental, like OVW or FCW.

 

I almost feel a sort of "pressure" for including guys. Like, I feel like these lists "should" include some guys but I just haven't seen anything by them, or not enough of them, or honestly thought they sucked, which can just be a generational thing. Guys like Bruno Sammartino, Bruiser Brody, Strangler, The Destroyer, etc. I have only seen a few Brody matches, never seen a Strangler or Destroyer match and Bruno bores me to tears.

 

EDIT2: Here's more guys to debate because they are odd to me:

• Chris Jericho
• Brian Pillman
• Dustin Rhodes/Goldust
• Chris Candido
• Bam Bam Bigelow

I have always felt that Jericho was massively overrated but I still think he might make the list. Pillman I just don't know if he ever did enough. Same with Dustin. But maybe both are better than Jericho? It's hard for me. BBB is a personal fav and Candido I feel is underrated, if anything, but still not sure if good enough.

[JerryvonKramer]

Luger - Has there ever been a guy whose career and people's memory of it has been more affected by crappy booking and heat backstage? Never has a guy been subject to more badly-timed and downright illogical turns than Luger. And he was never "one of the boys" so everybody and their uncle has absolutely buried him in shoots, which has partly led to him not being well liked by "smart" internet fans. That standard line is that he was actually great in 1988-9 but got lazy after that. I actually think he had good moments right through the 90s.

[Coffey]

Here's an exercise. Put these groups of three in order from best to worst:

 

Rick Rude

Curt Hennig

Ted DiBiase

 

Ric Flair

Terry Funk

Jerry Lawler

 

Stan Hansen

Steve Williams

Terry Gordy

 

===

 

This is what I was talking about in the John Cena thread. It's so hard for me to say one guy is better than another guy when they're both great. A is better than B and B is better than C so A is more better than C than it is better than B.

[JerryvonKramer]

The first group there is a killer, three of my traditional favourite guys. I'm going to go against my natural instincts to comply with Coffey's wish for this to be "in ring only".

 

I think it's safe to say Hennig is number 3. But Rude vs. DiBiase is tough. I think Rude's peaks are higher than DiBiase's, but DiBiase had the longer career as a top guy. Also, objectively, he was a better worker than Rude. Despite the great matches with Warrior, I don't see Rude as "broomstick worker". I think Rude could be lazy. He's a guy that might sit in a chin-lock for 10 minutes if he didn't feel like putting in a shift. I think DiBiase was smoother than Rude at all the basics. Like, he had a better vertical suplex or a better piledriver. His selling was generally better, which isn't a knock on Rude's selling. DiBiase could also work different styles, terrific brawler as we know, and more than competent as a technical wrestler - could work dominant and on top (see most of 88 run), or be a sniveling coward (see Money Inc). Rude by contrast is quite one-note, he's always more or less the same guy, same style. I think Rude's best matches (e.g. against Steamboat, Beach Blast 92) are better than DiBiase's best (e.g. vs. Duggan, vs. Savage), but Ted's more of a total package. I think Ted edges it.

 

1. Ted DiBiase

2. Rick Rude

3. Curt Hennig

 

My one qualifier here is that I'm yet to see Curt's AWA stuff. But that's going to have to be out-of-this world good to get ahead of the other two here.

[Dylan Waco]

Hennig's AWA stuff is out of this World go. So is his Portland stuff.

 

1. Hennig

2. Dibiase

3. Rude

 

1. Funk

2. Lawler

3. Flair

 

1. Hansen

2. Williams

3. Gordy

 

Second group is tough as all of those guys would be in my top ten and I could see them all in a top five.

 

Third group is tough too. It's possible if I went back and watched more of Gordy in Japan he would leap over Williams

[JerryvonKramer]

While we're playing this game, I'll throw out another set:

 

Tully Blanchard

Ricky Steamboat

Randy Savage

 

Might just be because I've been watching a lot of 80s NWA recently, but I'd probably put Tully as 1. right now and a legit contender for "worker of the 80s". If anyone disagrees, I'd be interested to read cases for putting either Savage or Steamer higher.

[Dylan Waco]

Prime Tully might be better than prime Steamboat or Savage...maybe. But Tully's prime was shorter. Hell his whole career was dramatically shorter. If pressed right this second I'd go....

 

1. Savage

2. Steamboat

3. Tully

 

But I could see an argument for almost any arrangement of those three.

[NintendoLogic]

Here's a couple more sets from the eras I have the strongest attachment to: mid-90s WWF and 90s All Japan.

 

Steve Austin

Bret Hart

Shawn Michaels

 

Toshiaki Kawada

Kenta Kobashi

Mitsuharu Misawa

 

I have my own views, but I'd like to hear other people's rankings and justifications first so I can compare and contrast.

[Coffey]

Toshiaki Kawada

Kenta Kobashi

Mitsuharu Misawa

This is one that I have ran into myself while making my list. My order was:

 

1. Kawada

2. Misawa

3. Kobashi

 

My reasoning was because Kobashi has some silly selling a lot of the time & Misawa constantly fixing his tights or wiping the sweat off his eyebrows after taking a big move takes me out of moments. I know that's a shitty reason & such a ridiculous, tiny little thing, but when comparing those guys, for me, it comes down to that shit because they're all so good so that you have grasp at straws to find flaws. Their matches are great, against each other & against some other guys of the era that I have seen, like Hansen, Akiyami, tags with Taue, etc.

 

I also ran into the selling issue with Terry Funk. His stumbling around drunken-old man sell is really cheesy.

[goodhelmet]

Hulk Hogan

Roddy Piper

- The stock on both of these guys is going up with the more WWF house show footage we watch. With Piper, we are discovering so many great brawls that I could easily see him in my Top 100 when all is said and done. With Hogan, it seems like he really slipped after 1987 and his matches were such a chore to watch after that. Before 1987, he was pretty good.

 

• Sean Waltman

- Waltman may make my Top 100 but he really fells like a borderline guy. I think I would have both HBK and Cena comfortably ahead of him.

 

• John Tenta

- Really enjoyed him when he was with All Japan. Still going through Earthquake footage on the yearbooks but nothing extraordinary so far in terms of matches.

 

• Magnum T.A.

- Career cut tragically short. Really great matches from 1984-86.

[goodhelmet]

Ted DiBiase

Curt Hennig

Rick Rude

 

Ric Flair / Jerry Lawler

Terry Funk

 

Stan Hansen

Terry Gordy

Steve Williams

 

Randy Savage

Ricky Steamboat

Tully Blanchard

 

Steve Austin

Bret Hart

Shawn Michaels

 

Toshiaki Kawada

Mitsuharu Misawa

Kenta Kobashi

[Grimmas]

Steve Austin

Bret Hart

Shawn Michaels

This one is really easy for me.

 

Bret Hart

Steve Austin

Shawn Michaels

 

I've said my piece about Bret before, but his psychology, selling and ability to have the best finish all the time sets him apart.

 

Austin is great as a technician or a brawler, as a heel or a face. He's in my favourite match ever, against Bret at Survivor Series.

 

Michaels I never really liked. He had some high end matches in the 90's, but not my cup of tea.

[puropotsy]

So many of these could be a three-way tie for me.

 

Curt Hennig

Ted DiBiase

Rick Rude

 

 

Terry Funk

Ric Flair

Jerry Lawler

 

Stan Hansen

Terry Gordy

Steve Williams

 

 

Ricky Steamboat

Randy Savage

Tully Blanchard

 

 

Bret Hart

Steve Austin

Shawn Michaels

 

Kenta Kobashi

Mitsuharu Misawa

Toshiaki Kawada

[FLIK]

Heh, that's pretty close to what my list would be

 

For me

 

Rick Rude

Curt Hennig

Ted DiBiase

 

Terry Funk

Ric Flair

Jerry Lawler

 

There's others (very few) i'd have above him in my top 100 but I think as an overall wrestler Funk may be the greatest of all time.

 

Terry Gordy

Stan Hansen

Steve Williams

 

Ricky Steamboat

Randy Savage

Tully Blanchard

 

Steve Austin

Bret Hart

Shawn Michaels

 

Kenta Kobashi

Mitsuharu Misawa

Toshiaki Kawada

 

Out of everyone listed Kawada is the one who'd be least likely to make my top 100 or really even top 200. I've seen him in great matches sure but at this point any enjoyment I get out of them is purely because of whoever it is he's facing and not him, on his own I have no use for Toshiaki Kawada in my life.

[Dylan Waco]

Bret

Austin

Shawn

 

Kawada

Misawa

Kobashi

[JerryvonKramer]

Think this thread would be much more fruitful if people gave reasons for why they are ranking things the way they are.

[Frankensteiner]

Curt Hennig

Ted DiBiase

Rick Rude

 

Rude might have had the best peak but it was the shortest of the three. DiBiase was amazing in Mid-South and mostly good-sometimes great in the WWF. I thought Hennig was equally great everywhere, including the WWF.

 

Jerry Lawler

Ric Flair

Terry Funk

 

I actually think all of these guys are overrated to an extent. None of them would be in my top 20. Funk seems to me like a great character actor popping up in a bunch of different movies but never really able to carry one himself. Might feel different if we had some Amarillo footage. I’ve talked about Flair before. Lawler is great but I’m not as crazy about the Memphis style as others.

 

Randy Savage

Ricky Steamboat

Tully Blanchard

 

I think this was the toughest one to rank. Savage and Steamboat are both in my top 5. The thing is though I always consider Savage disproportionately high given his output (I mean if I did my top 10 or top 15, I think he might have the least amount of great matches on that list). Steamboat is awesome and I could easily see ranking him ahead of Savage tomorrow if I thought about it again. Blanchard was great too, and like Rude, may have the best peak out of the three but it was by far the shortest.

 

Bret Hart

Shawn Michaels

Steve Austin

 

Attitude-era style isn’t one of my favorites. Of course Austin was really good before switching over to that style but he doesn’t have the same number of great matches as the other two.

[NintendoLogic]

Terry Funk

Ric Flair

Jerry Lawler

 

I give Funk the edge because of his unparalleled versatility and ability to reinvent himself. He's like the David Bowie of wrestling. But all these guys are all-time top 10, and you could plausibly put them in any order.

 

Stan Hansen

Steve Williams

Terry Gordy

 

There are very few people I would rank above Stan Hansen. Doc and Gordy are not among them. Neither are my parents.

 

Bret Hart

Steve Austin

Shawn Michaels

 

The way I see it, the best Austin matches rank among the very best in American history. But the drop-off from his top-shelf stuff and the next level down is pretty steep, IMO. Shawn had the opposite problem: a bunch of really good matches but few blow-away great ones. With Bret, you get both quality and quantity. I think the results of the Smarkschoice WWF poll from a few years ago bear this out. Bret has 12 matches in the top 50, of which 8 are in the top 20. Austin, on the other hand, has 7 in the top 50 but none after 22. Meanwhile, Shawn has 9 in the top 50 but only 3 in the top 20.

 

Mitsuharu Misawa

Toshiaki Kawada

Kenta Kobashi

 

This is another tough matchup between three all-time top 10 guys (top 5, even). In my view, it's a two-horse race between Misawa and Kawada for the top spot. Between the two, I give the edge to Misawa due to better performance against common opponents. Here's how I rank their matches with the other All Japan heavy hitters:

 

vs. Kobashi: Misawa

vs. Taue: Misawa

vs. Hansen: Kawada

vs. Jumbo: Misawa

vs. Doc: Push

 

I have it 3-1-1 in Misawa's favor. Others might see it differently.

[Coffey]

So, after taking a few days to re-watch some stuff, re-read some stuff, talk with my friends & bounce opinions off of people, I think I might have Stan Hansen at #1. Terry Funk, Ric Flair, Jumbo, Misawa, Kawada, Steamboat, Savage, Doc & Lawler for top ten with Kobashi just missing.

 

This is a "project" that seems completely impossible to me. Even once I do decide to put a number beside a name, I almost instantly question it. I never feel completely satisfied with even my own personal opinions & then if they are to get questioned on top of that too, I'm not sure if I could defend or detract too many points.

 

SO HARD!

[Dylan Waco]

The nature of a list like this is that it will never stay the same.

 

That is a good thing.

 

As new footage becomes available and new workers come to the forefront your list will evolve. There is nothing wrong with this.

 

During the SC poll I wrote about how I wished there was enough Buddy Rose footage to make a case but there wasn't. Now we have tons of Buddy footage and he'd be no worse than top twenty on my list, possible as high as top ten.

 

Back then I had watched very little Lucha at all and and had no Luchadores on my list. Now I would have at least five in my top twenty, one of whom I regard as a legitimate contender for number one (El Hijo Del Santo, Blue Panther, Satanico, El Dandy and Negro Casas).

 

I have always enjoyed shootstyle, but was never fascinated with it. Shootsyle performers did not do terribly well on my list. Now Ishikawa, Otsuka, Fujiwara, Tamura, Han would make my list at minimum.

 

I was a Tajiri, Tracy Smothers and Dick Togo fan at the time, but the only one of those guys who made my list was Smothers and he was one of the last two or three guys on. Now all three of those guys would make my list and Smothers would be higher than he was.

 

On the flip side I wouldn't rate Michaels, Toyota, Koshinaka, Takada, Muto, Malenko, Inoki, and others I had on the list at all.

 

Things change. We (re?)discover Hoshino's, Blackwell's, La Fiera's, Fuyuki's, Valentine's and others. This is a great thing

[Victator]

Bossman

One Man Gang

Bam Bam Bigelow

[Dylan Waco]

None of those guys would have a shot of making my top hundred.

 

I would be inclined to go

 

Bossman

Bigelow

Gang

 

But I'm not confident in that at all. I hate to put Gang last but I'm not sure he has the matches the other two have.

[Victator]

I think Gang is way more consistent than either Bossman or Bam Bam. I think he can get better matches out of guys you would not expect to have good matches. A really smart worker and a great bumper.

 

But he was sorta blackballed from wrestling in the 90s. That is probably the wrong term, but a guy that big and talented should have more than two brief WCW runs and a short stint in ECW working openers.

 

Bam Bam I think has a higher ceiling for great matches, he just never seemed to reach it often. .

 

Bossman I think has the matches and was a more versatile wrestler than Gang or Bigelow.

[JerryvonKramer]

Gang has quite a decent late run with the US belt, hardly "blackballed" was he.

 

That said, can't see this being anything other than:

 

Bigelow

Bossman

Gang

 

Gang has more shitty matches that the other two, a lot more. Bossman when motivated was a GREAT woker. Bam Bam is a case of "what could have been" but what he did do was still impressive.