Top Ten U.S. All Time

[Loss]

After watching 1990 and early 1991, I have new respect for Jeff Jarrett. I don't think he's a Top 10 pick. But no way is he not Top 20. Super worker.

[goodhelmet]

I love Jarrett in Memphis. Despised him everywhere else he went. There are entire 5 year spans, maybe more, where he was just unwatchable on the screen.

[jpchicago23]

Yea he looked more comfortable in Memphis despite being greener. He just fit right in and was a way better baby face then I ever had imagined him being. I didn't mind his first wwf run but hated his wcw stuff and TNA for that matter.

[Matt D]

Jarrett in memphis in 93 is really painful til the heel turn

[rvd356]

Ok here goes. Ha, to the guy who had Piper, I also had him in all versions of my Top 10 list until I remembered he was born in Saskatoon. I guess it was a dumb question about if we were only including US work. And since I have seen a ton of All Japan(more than anything except WWE, WCW and Tna) 1970's-Present so I'm comfortable with some of my picks in that regard.

 

*In order*

 

1) Ric Flair

2) Randy Savage

3) Vader (no "fat guy" wrestler is even close. Blackwell? Yeah he's fun but he doesn't have nearly the resume of matches that Vader has. Yeah the Lawler match I saw from '82 was impressive, the Road Warriors/Blackwell & Slaughter match from AWA was great, but you plug in Vader and those matches become 10x better. Also, the only "big man"( Giants/Tall guys; splitting hairs with these sub-categories now) in his league is The Undertaker)

4) Stan Hansen

5) Terry Funk

6) Kurt Angle

7) CM Punk(just like him THAT much already)

8) Undertaker

9) Steve Austin

10) Shawn Michaels(I just don't see how you could not put him on a top 10 US list, maybe not a top 10 period list, but he's a top 25 all time wrestler imo. I guess I can see how he's downgraded for being a prick in the 90's and fuckin over people. And every person here seems to love Memphis wrestling. How bout the ****3/4 Memphis(nashville but still) styled match Michaels-Jarrett from IYH: 2? Did no one else here think Taker/HBK from Mania 25 was ***** and match of the last decade?

[Dylan Waco]

I can accept the argument that Vader was better than Blackwell, but I don't think there is any reason to believe either of the matches you mentioned would have been ten times better with Vader. I also don't think that tag match is close to being a high end Blackwell match. I like Taker fine, but Blackwell is better.

 

I like Michaels v. Taker but I don't even think it's the match of that year let alone match of the decade. I also like Jarrett v. Shawn, but I don't think it's a big surprise that he had that sort of quality match in that style with Jarrett and I don't think that's even close to the best Memphis style match ever.

[rvd356]

I can accept the argument that Vader was better than Blackwell, but I don't think there is any reason to believe either of the matches you mentioned would have been ten times better with Vader. I also don't think that tag match is close to being a high end Blackwell match. I like Taker fine, but Blackwell is better.

 

I like Michaels v. Taker but I don't even think it's the match of that year let alone match of the decade. I also like Jarrett v. Shawn, but I don't think it's a big surprise that he had that sort of quality match in that style with Jarrett and I don't think that's even close to the best Memphis style match ever.

Well I'm interested in seeing these great Blackwell matches if you have some ideas. I just picked some randoms on Youtube(there isn't much). Better than Taker though? I know he was just a character from '90-'96, but you're saying Blackwell has better matches than Taker/Foley brawls, HBK/Taker 5 matches? Better than the Angle matches, Lesnar HIAC? And I'm objective on Taker, I thought the Trips Mania 27 match was average(***, best part was the head chairshot that Taker sold perfectly, like a Mike Tyson right hand) and the Mania 28 HIAC sucked.

 

What was better than Taker/HBK in 2009? I wasn't watching 07'-10' so just caught this match on the net, so I didn't see a lot of stuff from any promotion that year. Also what was your match of the decade(2000-2009)

[Matt D]

There's an 80s AWA comp you should buy. Go talk to Will.

[Chess Knight]

I thought the 2/3 falls match Blackwell had with Butch Reed in '82 was better than all but a handful of Taker matches ever and I'm a pretty massive Taker fan.

[Dylan Waco]

I thought the 2/3 falls match Blackwell had with Butch Reed in '82 was better than all but a handful of Taker matches ever and I'm a pretty massive Taker fan.

I like Taker too and hate arguing against him because I think he's had some very strong runs. I would have no problem with someone saying his absolute best matches are better than Blackwell's (not sure I'd believe this but I don't think it's crazy to say) or that he has more good taped matches than Blackwell. I don't think there is any argument for Taker being as consistently good (particularly since we now have some glimmers of Blackwell from the 70's online) and I don't think Taker was nearly good in the particulars.

 

As I said in the Blackwell thread in The Microscope, Blackwell's best years were spent working guys like old Mad Dog Vachon, old Crusher and Bruiser Brody. Yes he got to work with the High Flyers who were a legitimately great team, but Blackwell wasn't a guy who got huge advantages via booking. We don't have any matches v. Verne, Bock, Martel or Hennig. In the matches we have where he is paired off with other great talent they all deliver and some of those are when he was clearly past his physical prime.

 

I'd put the best Sheiks v. Flyers match, the Taped Fist tag match from the AWA Set, Blackwell v. Reed, the Starrcage 85 handicapped tag match, Blackwell v. Vachon Aglerian Death Match, Blackwell v. Hansen from Oakland right with the best of Taker's best stuff. Of the matches you listed, I think all of these matches are at minimum in the same range. To be honest I'd give Blackwell a net advantage if those matches rvd listed are the "best" Taker matches though I realize some people are higher on things like Taker v. Shawn I and II than I am (I'm hardly "low" on either).

[NintendoLogic]

I also like Jarrett v. Shawn, but I don't think it's a big surprise that he had that sort of quality match in that style with Jarrett and I don't think that's even close to the best Memphis style match ever.

But it is the best Jarrett match ever. On the other hand, I'm not entirely sure it'd be in Shawn's top ten.

 

Anyway, in no particular order, I'd go with Flair, Funk, Bret (he's a US citizen, so I'm counting him), Eddy, Hansen, Lawler, Vader, Steamboat, Austin, and HBK.

[Matt D]

I know we lack MSC footage in the early 90s, but there's not a memphis match that made tape better than Jarrett vs Shawn?

[Dylan Waco]

It's the best Jarrett match in a major promotion. It's also one of the only times Jarrett got any meaningful time and was working a match catered to his style in a major U.S. promotion. It's also definitely a top ten Shawn Michaels singles match. Probably top five. If you count tag matches I would agree it might not be top ten.

[Matt D]

What about Jeff Jarrett & Robert Fuller vs The Moondogs, USWA 01/17/92

[S.L.L.]

I guess I can see how he's downgraded for being a prick in the 90's and fuckin over people.

He isn't downgraded for being a prick and fucking over people. Lots of guys pimped in this thread were pricks who fucked over people, and it's not held against them.

 

He's downgraded because people feel his great 90's run wasn't as great as some people claim, and that his post-comeback run was downright bad for the most part.

[goodhelmet]

This is the part where we mention Buddy Rose who is almost universally loathed as a human being by those who knew him but loved as a wrestler by people in this thread.

[rvd356]

I also like Jarrett v. Shawn, but I don't think it's a big surprise that he had that sort of quality match in that style with Jarrett and I don't think that's even close to the best Memphis style match ever.

But it is the best Jarrett match ever. On the other hand, I'm not entirely sure it'd be in Shawn's top ten.

 

Anyway, in no particular order, I'd go with Flair, Funk, Bret (he's a US citizen, so I'm counting him), Eddy, Hansen, Lawler, Vader, Steamboat, Austin, and HBK.

 

Haha you can't have Bret on here, he's gotta be on the Canadian version of this thread. If we count current residence then Pipers on here, Patterson and Benoit(ATL cemetary). Who would be left for the Canadian list; Stu Hart?

[Jingus]

I know I'm alone with the HBK mention

Nah, at least one or two people have voted for him... plus me.

 

For rules, I'm going with "must be a natural-born American citizen, but the comparison includes their foreign matches". In adjusted alphabetical order:

 

Steve Austin

Mick Foley

Terry Funk

Eddie Guerrero

Stan Hansen

Shawn Michaels

Rey Mysterio Jr

The Necro Butcher

Ricky Steamboat

The Undertaker

 

With "on a different day, I could pick this guy" honorable mentions for Kurt Angle, Bryan Danielson, Ric Flair, Jerry Lawler, AJ Styles, and Vader.

[NintendoLogic]

I have to say, I wasn't expecting anyone to put Necro Butcher above Ric Flair.

[rvd356]

I guess I can see how he's downgraded for being a prick in the 90's and fuckin over people.

He isn't downgraded for being a prick and fucking over people. Lots of guys pimped in this thread were pricks who fucked over people, and it's not held against them.

 

He's downgraded because people feel his great 90's run wasn't as great as some people claim, and that his post-comeback run was downright bad for the most part.

 

So what are we counting as that "90's" run? Barbershop window through Wrestlemania 14(HBK Era)? I guess what could be held against him is the showboating Lucha style or "drama" or whatever. But even if you hate the "Sexy Boy 90's" character, you got to appriciate his top matches from that Era like the 2 ladder bouts with Scott Hall, Jarrett IYH 2, IYH Diesel street fight, IYH v. Foley, KOTR with Bulldog & the British ppv with Bulldog(love this match, Shawn was such a bastard heel. Just always loved Shawn/Davey's chemistry. Power v. Speed)

 

And I would think the consensus on here would be that his 2nd run was better. Seeing as how he wrestled more grounded, smarter matches. Of course you have the 2 Taker matches & the 2 Angle ppv matches, which liked a lot but I can see the flip side of those. But how bout the Orton S-Series match in '07? Best Orton match ever IMO. Plus the Cena Mania bout is the best of Cena's career outside the Punk MITB '11 match IMO.

 

Sure the 2nd run Dx stuff was God-awful, but when it was just veteran Shawn out there it was usually good.

[Chess Knight]

And I would think the consensus on here would be that his 2nd run was better.

That would really, really surprise me.

[Dylan Waco]

There are individual matches I like during the second run, but by and large I don't like Michaels at all during that period. I also tend to think his first run as a singles star is overrated. Tag team Shawn is my favorite Shawn.

 

Also despite WWE promotion I never saw Shawn as a "Lucha style" guy. Not then and especially not now that I have seen a lot of Lucha

[goodhelmet]

I guess I can see how he's downgraded for being a prick in the 90's and fuckin over people.

He isn't downgraded for being a prick and fucking over people. Lots of guys pimped in this thread were pricks who fucked over people, and it's not held against them.

 

He's downgraded because people feel his great 90's run wasn't as great as some people claim, and that his post-comeback run was downright bad for the most part.

 

So what are we counting as that "90's" run? Barbershop window through Wrestlemania 14(HBK Era)? I guess what could be held against him is the showboating Lucha style or "drama" or whatever. But even if you hate the "Sexy Boy 90's" character, you got to appriciate his top matches from that Era like the 2 ladder bouts with Scott Hall, Jarrett IYH 2, IYH Diesel street fight, IYH v. Foley, KOTR with Bulldog & the British ppv with Bulldog(love this match, Shawn was such a bastard heel. Just always loved Shawn/Davey's chemistry. Power v. Speed)

 

And I would think the consensus on here would be that his 2nd run was better. Seeing as how he wrestled more grounded, smarter matches. Of course you have the 2 Taker matches & the 2 Angle ppv matches, which liked a lot but I can see the flip side of those. But how bout the Orton S-Series match in '07? Best Orton match ever IMO. Plus the Cena Mania bout is the best of Cena's career outside the Punk MITB '11 match IMO.

 

Sure the 2nd run Dx stuff was God-awful, but when it was just veteran Shawn out there it was usually good.

 

Let me first say welcome to the board. Next, I don't think you know this board very well.

[Matt D]

There should be a FAQ

[KB8]

I suspect would've had Michaels in a top 10 about 5 years ago. I wouldn't have him near that now (although I still love him in tags and think he has a strong case for being top 10 if this was a list for US tag workers. Shit, I might have him top 30 overall based on the strength of his tag work alone), but I still like an awful lot of pre-comeback Shawn a good deal. I'm about halfway through the '96 yearbook, and right now the only guy from the US I've enjoyed as much as him in Scorpio. I always go back and watch 90s Michaels thinking I'll like it less than I used to, and that kind of depresses me since he was the guy that got me hooked on wrestling in the first place and I have a huge soft spot for his 90s run as a result, but I always come out of it either liking it just as much or even more than I used to (in the case of the Diesel match from Good Friends, Better Enemies...which might actually be one of my ten favourite matches ever at this point). I haven't really revisited much of his run post-comeback, but by that point my tastes were starting to shift, anyway. There were matches I liked a lot at the time that I doubt I'd like nearly as much if I were to re-watch them right now.

 

Anyways, my top 10 off the top would probably be:

 

Hansen

Lawler

Funk

Eddie

Flair

Mysterio

Murdoch

Steamboat

Rose

Savage

 

Some of those would change tomorrow, I'd guess. They're not in order there, either.

 

This is the part where we mention Buddy Rose who is almost universally loathed as a human being by those who knew him but loved as a wrestler by people in this thread.

Really? I'd never heard about this.