PeteF3 Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 I can only add that I too was a lucha novice going into the Yearbook set--read about it, seen a few random bouts, that was it. I think I've taken to it like a fish to water, frankly. I love the technical stuff, love the brawls, and think Rayo vs. Caras is a low-level MOTYC and that's pretty much a "sports entertainment" match in every way. But...there are some really, really angle-heavy trios bouts on that set that can be confusing as heck, with multiple partners turning on each other. Also in general it seems like Satanico and El Dandy have turned technico and rudo multiple times in the span of 10 months. That makes me wary of even asking for background because I wouldn't expect even the most hardcore lucha fan to keep track of all that as frequently as it seems to happen. I read Spanish a whole lot better than I can listen to it, which makes me wish that CMLL TV was close-captioned to explain some of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricR Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 From personal experience, everybody I've known in my life who was not a fan of wrestling - who then happened to watch wrestling more than once with me - ALWAYS get into lucha more than anything else. Wrestling fans seem to be the only ones who think lucha is hard to understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 I don't think it's hard to understand. The rules of any match anywhere usually become self explanatory. I just like knowing what the stories are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvd356 Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 2) I said Lucha "style" meaning taking good aspects of Lucha and leaving the crap behind. Italking about WCW "Lucha libre": Rey Mysterio Jr., Eddy(saw the Havoc '97 match live, talk about hooked for life), Juvy Guerrera, Psicosis etc. Actually the Trios match from Bash At the Beach '97 was one of my early favorites. But all of the guys in that match had talent. So if those count, I like Lucha. Admittedly, I thought this might have been the case after I made my post. I think I may be getting a little cynical about people as of late. You can like and dislike what you want to. I wasn't getting uptight because you disliked something that I liked, but because I thought you were being dishonest. I still don't really get how you managed to pick up on the fact that we tend to like Memphis and Hashimoto, but not that we tend to like lucha and dislike post-comeback Michaels. But that doesn't give me the right to jump to conclusions like that. I'm sorry. Thank you sir. I did a lot of reading on here before making an account so I knew the favorites on here generally. Seriously have watched tons of Lucha on tv back in the day and I just didn't get the appeal. But that's the point of this place, to discuss these things intelligently. Also I thought I'd throw some thoughts out there on Michaels to see where the hate comes from, not to bait but to understand it. now if were talking Japanese wrestling, that's something that hooked me the first match I saw(Misawa/Kobashi 1-20-97 I believe was the date). I was just in awe of the stiffness & the dangerous moves. I didn't know anything about backstories(still dont) but it didn't matter.ordered a 'Best of Kobashi' & 'Best of Kawada' comp tape and still hold up that style/period/group of workers as the tops of all time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 I don't think it's hard to understand. The rules of any match anywhere usually become self explanatory. I just like knowing what the stories are. There isn't the same emphasis on mic work and promos in lucha that there is in US wrestling and when they do run angles they're often quite confusing. All you need to know is that these guys are the rudos, these guys are the technicos, these two are being programmed with each other and they're going to have either a title match or a wager match. It's not that different from the Memphis you enjoy; just substitute a loser leaves town match for a hair or mask match and you'll find that they might as well have been from the same mother. Once you're familiar with how a rudo or a technico generally behave, you'll find that you don't need a lot of backstory because the importance of the wager match is self-evident. After a while, you should be able to watch a hair match without any of the build and get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 rvd you won my over talking about hash/Zangiev. Welcome aboard. I know Dylan disagrees with this but I still say lucha is not for everyone and really only besides joshi do I see a style that is harder to infiltrate. I consider myself a lucha novice but have watched a fair share and still a pondering whether Atlantis being very technico-ish in his apuesta match vs. Kung Fu was the norm and if not why they hell did he initiate the mask ripping and rudo spots. Kung Fu turned on Atlantis during the same match that Satanico turned on Dandy. It happened on the 9/30/90 television show. It's not on the yearbook or Will's El Dandy comp for that matter. Presumably, there were a couple of trios after that where Kung Fu did nasty things to Altantis. He probably ripped or pulled off his mask at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 I don't think it's hard to understand. The rules of any match anywhere usually become self explanatory. I just like knowing what the stories are. There isn't the same emphasis on mic work and promos in lucha that there is in US wrestling and when they do run angles they're often quite confusing. All you need to know is that these guys are the rudos, these guys are the technicos, these two are being programmed with each other and they're going to have either a title match or a wager match. It's not that different from the Memphis you enjoy; just substitute a loser leaves town match for a hair or mask match and you'll find that they might as well have been from the same mother. Once you're familiar with how a rudo or a technico generally behave, you'll find that you don't need a lot of backstory because the importance of the wager match is self-evident. After a while, you should be able to watch a hair match without any of the build and get it. I get the whole Rudos and Technicos deal, and the wager matches I've seen I've enjoyed because I immediately know what's going on. I'm not a complete novice. I just like to know the more intimate details. The history of the feuds, that kind of thing. I kind of want to know what the announcers are saying. It's not a knock on Lucha, it's not like I want subtitles. (Now, Iron Chef style dubbed voices would be a hoot. ) I just want to know all the details as to why guys are fighting. It can be as simple as "It's a young rookie getting a shot at a big name" and I'm happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 Okay, but I'm not sure you get that from watching an match even one in English. You've got to read, watch and learn. But perhaps we can provide a supplement for the yearbooks. An explanation of 1990 would be handy since most of the build is cut from the yearbook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest aceman Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 Re: Dustin. http://board.deathvalleydriver.com/forum/3...__all__st__1920 any main event matches among that list?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted February 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 Re: Dustin. http://board.deathvalleydriver.com/forum/3...__all__st__1920 any main event matches among that list?? Thoughts on Virgil as a non-wrestler? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khawk20 Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 3) I would like to get along with everyone here and get/give recomendations. Sorry if I offended Lucha fans. Never mind those Lucha dudes, just never say anything bad about the AWA and you'll be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Redman Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 Never mind those Lucha dudes, just never say anything bad about the AWA and you'll be fine. To restore my credibility a little, I've been following the AWA Set talk from afar and have enjoyed virtually everything I've sampled from there - Rockers/Rose & Somers feud, Bock/Hennig, High Flyers/Sheiks cage, Hogan/Bock, Guerreros/Badd Company, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 Nevermind Lucha or AWA, just don't diss Sean Mooney man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khawk20 Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 Never mind those Lucha dudes, just never say anything bad about the AWA and you'll be fine. To restore my credibility a little, I've been following the AWA Set talk from afar and have enjoyed virtually everything I've sampled from there - Rockers/Rose & Somers feud, Bock/Hennig, High Flyers/Sheiks cage, Hogan/Bock, Guerreros/Badd Company, etc. Just messing with you a little. If you ever decide to invest further into watching stuff from the area, shoot me a PM. There's lots of goodness there that didn't make the 80's set that is, IMO, worth checking into. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.L.L. Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 Re: Dustin. http://board.deathvalleydriver.com/forum/3...__all__st__1920 any main event matches among that list?? Now here's what I needed: an actual, established troll to provide a point of comparison. Thanks, aceman! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvd356 Posted February 2, 2013 Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 Never mind those Lucha dudes, just never say anything bad about the AWA and you'll be fine. I like AWA from the stuff I've seen. Got the WWE released AWA set which was a fun doc(albeit kinda light on dirt) with some decent extras. Even though I'm not a big fan of the guys(in ring), Lawler/Kerry from Superclash III is a damn good match IMO. Also caught a bit of the ESPn stuff on Classics and some Youtube of course. I recently got the Hennig WWE dvd(weak doc, fun extras) so I have the Hennig/Bockwinkle 60 minute match but haven't gotten around to watching it. Here's something I was pondering(I'm sure its been discussed a million times here) but how do you guys think the 80's scene would have looked had Gagne pulled the trigger on Hogan as the #1 babyface World champion. In turn McMahon would have gone with Sgt. Slaughter as the guy to take the belt off of the Iron Shiek @ MSG that night. Also Gagne locks up the Road Warriors longterm to really compete. Say Gagne goes with the same merch model McMahon runs with and gets a real video distributor. Gagne creates his own big ppvs(minus celebrities of course) and expands nationally on Hogan's back against McMahon at the same pace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted February 2, 2013 Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 The only difference would have been Hogan showing up on WWF TV in early 84 with the AWA belt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvd356 Posted February 2, 2013 Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 The only difference would have been Hogan showing up on WWF TV in early 84 with the AWA belt. Haha work with me here. Slaughter v. Piper, Orndorff, Orton would have been some cool stuff in '85(especially loved Orndorffs wrestling at the time, and Piper was in his absolute prime) Slaughter v. Andre The Giant @ Mania 3 doesn't quite have the same charm, but I really think the badass Marine babyface champion could have drawn some big $, of course nothing could have touch the "golden goose" Hogan in the 80's. But I'm thinking some alternative universe stuff here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted February 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 Without Hogan the national run wouldn't have worked, certainly not as well as it did. Very possible there would never have been WM III. Of course it's moot, because Hogan was ALWAYS going to go to NY. If you are going to play what ifs, "Hogan dies in a fire" is a more realistic scenario to operate from Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlittlekitten Posted February 2, 2013 Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 The more stuff of The Masked Superstar I see the more I want to add Bill Eadie to my list. He has the stooging heel role down to perfection and there's something so satisfying about them Bret style double stomp strikes. The Mid Atlantic match vs Andre was shaping up to be one of my all time favourites so I'm gutted the end isn't available. I feel I need to rewatch a load of Demolition stuff cos I never took much notice of him before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nell Santucci Posted February 2, 2013 Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 The more stuff of The Masked Superstar I see the more I want to add Bill Eadie to my list. He has the stooging heel role down to perfection and there's something so satisfying about them Bret style double stomp strikes. The Mid Atlantic match vs Andre was shaping up to be one of my all time favourites so I'm gutted the end isn't available. I feel I need to rewatch a load of Demolition stuff cos I never took much notice of him before. I remember years back when Preston Quinn was hailing Bill Eadie as an all time great worker in a locker room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted February 2, 2013 Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 The only difference would have been Hogan showing up on WWF TV in early 84 with the AWA belt. Haha work with me here. Slaughter v. Piper, Orndorff, Orton would have been some cool stuff in '85(especially loved Orndorffs wrestling at the time, and Piper was in his absolute prime) Slaughter v. Andre The Giant @ Mania 3 doesn't quite have the same charm, but I really think the badass Marine babyface champion could have drawn some big $, of course nothing could have touch the "golden goose" Hogan in the 80's. But I'm thinking some alternative universe stuff here. Here's the Slaughter What If thread from last year http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?showtopic=15405 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted February 2, 2013 Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 My favorite question right now is "What if Vince became a wrestler in the 70s?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted February 2, 2013 Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 "What if Mike Rotunda had never become a wrestler?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted February 2, 2013 Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 Then who would team with Ted DiBiase? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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