tomk Posted March 27, 2013 Report Share Posted March 27, 2013 WEEK 17 (April 26 to May 01, 1999) Stupid job of the week : Raven doing the job to Steve and Scott Armstrong (Nitro). Why ? Supposedly Saturn had been attacked by the Horsemen earlier on. Still, this has no point and the announcers make it worse by calling it a huge upset, which really doesn't make Raven look like a big deal but rather make the Armstrong look like complete jabroni. They beat up a guy 2 on 1 and it's still a huge upset ? Shit. One of the recurring things that happens in WCW, is you have these midcard angles start ...develop...then someone higher on card gets wind and demands angle gets dropped...and then it gets referenced again. So you have Jason Hervey and Eddy Guerrero develop the LWO angle only for someone to go "whoah we're diluting the NWO..this needs to be dropped". Raven has a ton of stuff that develops and goes nowhere (Raven as illegit son of Piper angle)...I want to say the Armstrong stuff was part of this. In 98 Raven did a thunder promo on the Armstrong curse and Brad, a WCWSN promo on Armstrong curse and Scott, tried to recruit the Armstrongs, Lodi held up signs referencing curse...sacrificed Brad while threatening DDP...and then not heard for again...but every so often they would do another Raven and Armstrong segment where he'd reference their WCW history...he definitely references this 2 on one match later...and part of some sort of goofy arc that I'm figuring Raven put together himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andrews Posted March 27, 2013 Report Share Posted March 27, 2013 He's always said that the last few years at WCW basically killed his love for wrestling, and left him depressed with no self confidence. When did he actually start saying that? Because he'd still have the odd inspired performance like the promo on the last Nitro. I always assumed "I had no self-confidence, until Vince/Trip/WWE helped me" was his way of putting over WWE 10 or so years ago. As an aside, I remember in an interview he did with Meltzer around this time (for Dave's Eyada show), him saying that the most fun he'd ever had in his career was the time he was on top with the Horsemen and when he was in WWF. Would be very cool to hear that. Was it before WCW closed doors can you remember? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted March 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2013 One of the recurring things that happens in WCW, is you have these midcard angles start ...develop...then someone higher on card gets wind and demands angle gets dropped...and then it gets referenced again. Yes. Rewatching all the TV in context makes this painfully obvious. This and aborted pushes of undercard guys who aren't supposed to get over. Norman Smiley early in the year is the most flagrant case of getting himself over big time, before he got basically dropped off TV. When he resurfaced (on Saturday Night more than elsewhere mind you) he couldn't do the big wiggle anymore. Then he got dropped off TV again. The "Raven is a rich kid who idolized Roddy Piper" got litteraly dropped right after the vignettes aired on TV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted March 27, 2013 Report Share Posted March 27, 2013 You can do it El-P. We're all pulling for you here. Thank you !!!! Nash is killing me !!! Wait until you get to make fun of Russo later in the year! John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artDDP Posted March 28, 2013 Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 Master P wasn't popular at all by the time WCW utilized him. From what I remember he had a very brief run of popularity in 1998 and then him and his record label were thought of as jokes in the hip-hop community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyonthewall2983 Posted March 28, 2013 Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 I can't help but feel WCW getting musical acts to come in and be a part of angles could have been done better. It's something they did a lot of during this time-frame EL-P is covering, there's still KISS, Megadeth and James Brown to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyonthewall2983 Posted March 28, 2013 Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 The shine started to come off when he came back in '98. The Flair of 1986 wouldn't have done a promo cuffed to a rope in his underwear. I'm not even sure if he would have done it '96. That off-time he had that year must have done something irreversible to him because in a sense it was never the same again. That segment was Gold though. Pure Gold. It was a good segment, considering the place Flair found himself at the time. I think Ric can be equally good as a face as he is a heel, but he's been a bad face more times than he's been a bad heel (TNA doesn't count). Looking back, bringing his family into it like they did seems pointless when you consider that he's probably one of, if not the greatest heels of pro wrestling period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death From Above Posted March 28, 2013 Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 The James Brown showing up on PPV thing was funny because about three quarters of the crowd (being a fucking wrestling event) didn't know who he was while the announcers are selling it as the greatest moment in the history of our sport. The other thing I remember from that PPV is, of all things, an astoundingly bad interview segment with The Maestro which I thought was one of the worst things I saw that whole year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Guitar Posted March 28, 2013 Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 Russo is coming You know he say's this to his wife! WEEK 23 (June 7 to June 12, 1999) Stupid promo of the week : Roddy Piper (Nitro) Yeah, *that* Piper promo when he made fun and light of the younger workers in the back complaining about not getting opportunities. Sure, because that wasn't a real issue with the company. Remember Piper is supposed to be a babyface. And who does he want to carry the ball, after making fun of him in the most absurd and stupid way imaginable (asking a WCW bred worker if he ever worked in Madison Square Garden... dumb) ? Buff Bagwell, who's been exposed at this point as a terrible babyface (awful over pandering promos) and a rather poor worker (blame either the injury, lazyness or the fact Buff was roided as all). And he puts him in a PPV match with Disco Inferno, who had also complained that the young generation didn't get any opportunities. Of course, Buff already beat Disco clean the previous week on Nitro. Kill me. Piper was fucking horrible at this point. But I can't hold it all against him. Like nearly everyone else. WCW had killed his morale at this point and he was happy too phone it in. In his defence. He wanted too work an angle with Raven to put him over, and along with Flair and Bret, was the only member of the old guard, who wanted too put the next generation over and male some new stars You can do it El-P. We're all pulling for you here. Keep going! This thread is great, and is bringing back some memories. Most of them bad. At the time I couldn't believe how bad they were fucking up, and how bad I wanted someone too sort it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted March 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 I appreciate the support. Still two months of Nash to go (amazing he wasn't demoted earlier, his booking is a tragedy), one of Sullivan & Taylor before the Man comes in. WEEK 25 (June 21 to 25, 1999) Comeback match of the week : Eddie Guerrero vs Juventud Guerrera (Nitro). Finally, Eddie is back, looking pretty ripped. He's still the asshole Eddie although he came off as a babyface a few weeks earlier when he made his first appearance back. Nice detail as he actually refers to the LWo angle at the beginning of the match, mimicking Juvy taking off the shirt and quiting the faction. He proceeds to slap the shit out of him and have a really fie match, although too short (Juvy really was a total afterthought sadly at this point, not even being defined clearly as a face or a heel). Glad to see Eddie back, he looks as great as he was in late 98. He also has a good match with Psychosis on Thunder. Comeback match of the week 2 : Chris Benoit & Perry Saturn vs Fit Finlay & Dave Taylor (Thunder). I would be tempted to call this an hidden gem, as it involves two european guys working stiff and doing some stretching, but this is just a really good Nitro-style match. Finlay & Taylor should have been pushed seriously right into the tag team division, they are really excellent together. Oh, and the awesome and unexpected comeback comes after the ending of the match, as Steven Regal shows up to reconcile Taylor & Finlay who were arguing. He's a man's man, and I'm glad he's back. Honorable mention of the week : Rey Mysterio Jr. & Konnan vs DDP & Kanyon (& Bam Bam) (Nitro). This is a tag-title match, and Bam Bam is tagging along with DDP at points. The explanation is that since Flair aligned himself with the Triad, they can do whatever they want. Well... This is a good match too, and Kanyon works really well with Rey once again. Konnan only doing short bursts of offence makes him tolerable. I must say I'm embarrassed every time Rey does this hip-hop shout out before the matches. The No Limit Soldiers got an actual worker in their rank now, because when you talk about O.G.'s you gotta think about Brad Armstrong. But hey, I'm all for more Brad Amrstrong on TV, even in a stupid hip-hop getup that makes him his brother's wannabee (and it will only get worse, I know). This ends up in a big brawl with Hennig and the rednecks running in, then Benoit & Saturn too. Master P. does his ridiculous "Hoody Hooo !" shout, only to get more boos. That's because he didn't had enough of "his people" in the crowd, as he complained later. Yeah, it's not because he sucks and no one wants to see him. Epic Fail of the week : Curt Hennig crashes Master P's little brother's birthday party (Nitro). Don't even ask why they would have a birthday party for P's little brother in the ring and why I nor the WCW audience should care. P already embarrassed himself earlier in the night with a terrible playback rendition of his "Hoody Hoo" shitty song, to a very mixed reaction, in his own town no less. So, Hennig offers a cowboy hat to P's brother, who proceed to stomp on it (well, he tried at least), and P and the gang threw the cake on Curt. All of this terribly executed. Since Curt got alone into a ring full of at least 15 gang members, and didn't do anything offensive, you know what the reaction was : he came off as a babyface bullied by a bunch of buffoons shouting more "Hooody Hoos" to more boos. Master P sucked, and the WCW audience let him know about it. Jeez, couldn't they have contacted, I dunno, Snoop Dog or something ? Or Cypress Hill ? I mean, even by 1999 these guys were more relevant that fucking Master P. I'm not asking for Eminem, but the No Limit Soldiers were looking like a complete stereotype of goofy-ass fake gangsta rappers. Dream match of the week : Rey Mysterio Jr. vs Barry Windham (Saturday Night). Yeah, this is a dream match of mine. Of course it's only three or four minutes of action, and I would have loved to see Barry and Rey go at it for 10 minutes, but still, I thought it was neat. Barry was sporting a super tight jean mini-shirt, which along with the worker gloves made him look like a Village People reject. Awesome terrible look. The Rap is Crap angle is so much fun. I'll go so far to say it's some of Hennig's best work he's doing here, at the very least post-injury. Not only is he rejuvenated as a worker, but he's having and is so much fun, doing his little jig to his fantastic theme song. And although I would have them come out to "Rednecks" by Randy Newman, "I hate rap" was terrific and is one of these songs that you just can't get out of your head once it's in it. Really really infectious. Which makes it ever more annoying and great. The fact that the audience is shitting on P makes all the bad stuff tolerable too. The main event scene is officially rotten with the addition of Sid. Now we get a realy stupid angle where Kevin Nash thinks Sting was driving the hummer because he popped up out of one last week to attack Rick Steiner. So the main event for BatB is Sting/Nash vs Savage/Sid. Great idea. Sid vs Sting bombed in 90, bombed in 93 and Sid vs Diesel bombed in 95. The Piper/Flair vs Buff Bagwell could be cool if a worker I cared about was put in that position, and although Bagwell is over, he's just not the right guy to push. Booker T coming back from injury and having a good match with Kanyon. The seeds of Lenny & Lodi are planted, with Lodi coming out during Lenny's matches to look after him. The cruiserweight, TV and US belts are all but forgotten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death From Above Posted March 29, 2013 Report Share Posted March 29, 2013 They should have just brought in PG-13 as their rappers to feed to Hennig. It would have cost a hell of a lot less, had the same effect on the ratings (none), and the matches and promos would have been better. I have no idea what shape Jamie Dundee was in at this point, but considering Scott Hall still had a fucking job it's not like anyone can wave that card around. Besides PG-13 did show up before WCW died anyway. WCW's obsession with outside celebrities (even if they were D-list celebs) really bit them in the ass almost every time, when you could have spent less getting actual wrestlers to fill the same roles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted March 29, 2013 Report Share Posted March 29, 2013 I don't know if it's actually true, but I remember reading that "Rap Is Crap" actually got airplay on Country radio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Guitar Posted March 29, 2013 Report Share Posted March 29, 2013 You can do it El-P. We're all pulling for you here. Thank you !!!! Nash is killing me !!! Wait until you get to make fun of Russo later in the year! John One of my indexable memories about wrestling in 1999 is that everyone hated Russo. It was just a question of when you were made aware of his excistance.. All the hard core fans hated him at the beginning of the year. His move to WCW was so well publicised, that when he has exposed as totally shit. Well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted March 29, 2013 Report Share Posted March 29, 2013 One of my indexable memories about wrestling in 1999 is that everyone hated Russo. It was just a question of when you were made aware of his excistance.. All the hard core fans hated him at the beginning of the year. His move to WCW was so well publicised, that when he has exposed as totally shit. Well... Not everyone. There were two groups that like him: * Paid Whore Shills Mostly RYDER & Co. over at WCW.com, but there were others sucking on the WCW Teet that supported Russo and Russo's Bullshit. * Russo Fanboys I swear to god... there were some of those guys around. They were even Russo Fanboys after WCW failed and died, and Russo continued to suck in his post-WCW Life. Those guys would have an explanation for why the ratings were Really Great under Russo, how he turned things around, and how he was held back / cut off by [Kevin Sullivan / Standards & Practice / Various Members of WCW Management / Etc / Etc / Etc]. If you think the threads here between me and Jerry were banging your head against the wall, they were NOTHING compared to WCW Fanboys vs Thinking Hardcore Wrestling Fans. Dumb as fucking rocks... and would take forever to drive away. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Cooke Posted March 29, 2013 Report Share Posted March 29, 2013 Marty2Hotty and the guy that used to run the old Oratory forums swore by Russo for years and years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted March 29, 2013 Report Share Posted March 29, 2013 He obviously brought some fanboys with him when he did his YouShoot interview as well, so they DO exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyonthewall2983 Posted March 29, 2013 Report Share Posted March 29, 2013 I don't know if it's actually true, but I remember reading that "Rap Is Crap" actually got airplay on Country radio. I remember seeing the video on a country network, so I'm not surprised it didn't get a little airplay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted March 29, 2013 Report Share Posted March 29, 2013 I kinda doubt it ever got put into heavy rotation or anything, but I absolutely believe there were some people working at country stations that also happened to watch WCW and loved the idea of playing that song on the radio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Guitar Posted March 29, 2013 Report Share Posted March 29, 2013 One of my indexable memories about wrestling in 1999 is that everyone hated Russo. It was just a question of when you were made aware of his excistance.. All the hard core fans hated him at the beginning of the year. His move to WCW was so well publicised, that when he has exposed as totally shit. Well... Not everyone. There were two groups that like him: * Paid Whore Shills Mostly RYDER & Co. over at WCW.com, but there were others sucking on the WCW Teet that supported Russo and Russo's Bullshit. * Russo Fanboys I swear to god... there were some of those guys around. They were even Russo Fanboys after WCW failed and died, and Russo continued to suck in his post-WCW Life. Those guys would have an explanation for why the ratings were Really Great under Russo, how he turned things around, and how he was held back / cut off by [Kevin Sullivan / Standards & Practice / Various Members of WCW Management / Etc / Etc / Etc]. If you think the threads here between me and Jerry were banging your head against the wall, they were NOTHING compared to WCW Fanboys vs Thinking Hardcore Wrestling Fans. Dumb as fucking rocks... and would take forever to drive away. John I'd managed to block out the memory of the hardcore Russo fans. But it's slowly coming back. The horror! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted April 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 WEEK 26 (June 28 to July 3) Death of WCW aka "Has Russo been hired already ?" angle of the week : Kevin Nash vs David Flair in a lumberjack match (Nitro). Kevin Nash surrounded with Flair, Arn (referee), DDP, Kanyon, Bam Bam, Sid, Madusa, George, Mona, Torrie Wilson gets beat up a bit, then beats up David until he gets attacked by the pack again. Grabs a tazer from David, shocks everyone in sight, kidnaps George while Torrie seems to follow him willingly. Gets into a limo, sees a black hummer and notices a Sting face in the rear view mirror (all with dramatic "cinematic" shots). Then on Thunder gives Savage a rebdez-vous to give him back George in exchange for his title belt, which Randy got while he was running away. They meet at a street corner, Nash gets beat up, Randy grabs the girl in the car's trunk. He later realizes that the girl is actually Torrie Wilson, who apparently is siding with Nash now. I wouldn't blame anyone for just throwing the towel now. Russo wasn't in the company yet, but his influence was all over the product already. This is pure shit, and why I stopped enjoying US wrestling. Default match of the week : Chris Benoit & Perry Saturn vs Steven Regal & Fit Finlay (Nitro). By default because Finlay & Regal are not supposed to be *really* competitive. So it's as good as it's allowed to be, as the big time tag team match of the show was DDP & Kanyon vs Malenko & Buff, which was decent but... Mysterio had a decent match with Blitzkreig too on Thunder, but cruiserweight matches are an afterthought now. Disapointing video of the week : "I hate rap" video. Yeah, they really could have done something great with this, but it's really half-ass work to me. The song is still great though. Stupid WWF reference of the week : Brad Armstrong, sorry, B.A. using "Oh you didn't know" before his No Limit Soldier promo (Thunder). I'm telling you, Vince Russo is already all over this product. Somewhat funny angle of the week : Dance context between The Cat & Disco Inferno (Nitro). Nothing special, but at least it's kinda funny thanks to The Cat, and it's just classic and basic wrestling stuff : The Cat dances and gets booed, while Disco dances and gets cheered, so The Cat attacks Disco from behind and beats him up, setting up a match on PPV. See, it's not hard. I really dragged my feet watching this week of programming. The TV is so awful and boring at this point, with nothing interesting happening and godwaful stuff at the top. Kevin Nash may be the worst booker ever, seriously, I don't see how Russo could be worse (and yet...). Eddie Guerrero is running through his former LWo members, getting wins and looking good. Rey Mysterio jr. doing the No Limit Soldier shouts is annoying and a bit embarrassing. Lenny & Lodi are a gay couple. I'm seriously YAWNING at WCW TV right now. It's terrible but it's not even "so bad it's entertaining" stuff, it's just dreadful. Next week we get a Megadeath performance. Pop culture relevance at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 I'd managed to block out the memory of the hardcore Russo fans. But it's slowly coming back. The horror! Wasn't one of them the guy who went on to trap RF? Xavier something-or-other? Seem to recall he was hardcore into Russo. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted April 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 WEEK 27 (July 5 to July 10) Godawfull PPV build of the week : Roddy Piper challenges Buff Bagwell to a boxing match / Ric Flair puts the US title on David / Kevin Nash puts his WCW title on the line in a tag team match (Nitro/Thunder). Don't even ask, this is so shitty on every level. Also, Van Hammer asks for a TV title match against Rick Steiner, and The Cat fights Jerry Flynn in a kickboxing latch that get shit on to build his match with... Disco Inferno, who doesn't even appear. Oh, and Nash says even Sting can get the WCW title if he pins him, despite being his own partner. Yeah, I couldn't make this shit up. Oh and I forgot the Invitationnal Hardcore Battle Royal in a junkyard because Flair banned all hardcore matches from WCW. Oh man... Match of the week : Chris Benoit vs Kanyon (Thunder). The more I watch Kanyon, the more I enjoy him. If he was strictly a goofy spot machine during his Mortis days, I think he got much better by this point, controlling the pace as a true heel would do, antagonizing the crowd, using little elbow drops and such between his bigger spots and taking the time to sell. He's a superb bumper and has an interesting looking offense, but not in a ridiculous indierific way like Edge or this kind of guys had. Yep, I always enjoyed him, but looking back I'm actually pleasently surrprised by how solid his work was at this point. This gets quite a bit of time too, so this is really a nice match. The Triad was as fun as I remembered, and DDP wasn't that bad on the mic, despite the goofy "Two times" lines. At least he was always trying to evolve. Honorable mention of the week : Barry & Kendall Windham vs Rey Mysterio Jr. & Konnan (Saturday Night). I always get a kick of watching the Windham brothers working against Rey. Barry had a pretty poor look at this point, although the fatigues shorts are much better than the übertight jean shorts. But he could still outwork a bunch of people, no matter how fat and how fucked up his knees were. Rey is clearly heading for best worker of the year in the company, he's just delivering in any situation against any kind of opponent. The only guy who didn't work well with Rey thus far is Ric Flair, which is telling. Fun live song of the week : "Rap is Crap" by the West Texas Rednecks (Nitro). Of course this is terrific bad playback, and Barry is pretty hilarious behind the drums. Bobby Duncum is the only one making an effort trying to pretend he's playing guitar. Curt is great and goofy. I will have trouble to get that damn song out of my head. Shitty live song of the week : "Crush 'Em" by Megadeth (Nitro). Cultural relevance. This is a really poor, commercially formated song. Megadeth was in the shitter at this point, and even less relevant that Master P, although at least they used to be great. Like 13 years before. Seriously, what's next ? KISS ? Anyway, as everyone remembers, at the end of the song a big explosion occurs and Goldberg emerges from the smoke. Line of the week : "I'm back ! With a new shitty theme song that will hurt my entrance heat like hell !" Goldberg on Nitro. Well, he didn't say quite all of it, but that was totally what was gonna happen. Fuck you Kevin Nash match of the week : Juventud Guerrera vs Kidman (Nitro) They have a perfectly good, action packed match at the beginning of the show, they work and bump hard for like 8 minutes, the crowd is into it, so of course this has to be a backdrop for Sid and Savage showing up, destroying the cruiserweights (because nobody wants to see them I guess), and cut a rambling shitty promo. Fuck you for ruining good matches like your name is Vince Russo, and fuck you for making me dislike Randy Savage who otherwise is one of my all-time favourite. "Promo" of the week : Bret Hart talking about Owen and what he will do with his career in the future (Nitro) This was rather touching, although at points it did sound like a wrestling promo when he was talking about not knowing what he was gonna do. Still, him thanking every wresters in every locker rooms everywhere in the world he ever worked with (with the great, halk snarky line "I hope I wasn't too stiff", with the emphasis on stiff) sounded both genuine and a way to say goodbye for real. He probably shoud never had come back, especially under a complete tool like Russo. That would have been a sad but fitting way to end his career. Certainly beats getting a concussion from Goldberg and reacting the Montreal screwjobs. The product sucks. WTR vs No Limit Soldiers & Triad vs Benoit & Saturn carry the entire company on their backs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death From Above Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 There's no way Megadeth were less relevant to WCW's audience than Master P. Having said that I was as shocked as anyone that when Endgame came out in 2009, it was great. Like, possibly best Megadeth album great. What the hell? It's about as out of the blue as a return to form gets. Maybe the funniest thing about WCW if you really understand how 97/98 went until now, is that suddenly the only belts that mean anything are the World and the Tag titles, while the US, TV, and Cruiserweight belts barely even have prop value now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyonthewall2983 Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 To be fair, this was when Megadeth started to decline. Their previous album to the one they released that year was a hit for them, and they had some radio play. Not that this is the place to discuss it, but thought it'd be fair to say that much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Guitar Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 I'd managed to block out the memory of the hardcore Russo fans. But it's slowly coming back. The horror! Wasn't one of them the guy who went on to trap RF? Xavier something-or-other? Seem to recall he was hardcore into Russo. John That's him. Xavier Von Russo. Completely delusional! I've always thought that the July 5 Nitro was interesting for the clear example it provided of how far WCW had dropped in exactly 6 months. -Jan 4 at the Georgia Dome drew 38,809; 34,788 paid. -Jul 5 at the Georgia Dome drew 25,338; 19,456 paid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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