Is NJPW the best puro product currently?

[jpchicago23]

I'm trying to get back into puro and i keep hearing good things about NJPW. Are they the best out there right now? Can someone name some cards or even tv i should check out. Or maybe some specific matches and wrestlers. I hear Alex Shelley and Davey Boy jr are tearing it up for their respective tag teams

[WingedEagle]

If you can get your hands on them, I think its worth checking out all of the iPPV's since last September, which was a solid show with fun, varied action up and down the lineup with nothing bad.

 

October featured Tanahashi vs. Suzuki which I thought was as good as any match last year.

 

November had a better main event than September but a similarly fun show that never gets old.

 

December was the tag tourney final and more of a set up for the Tokyo Dome show than anything else but certainly not offensive.

 

January at the Dome was fun, with Tanahashi/Okada being their weakest match yet but by no means bad, something great and different in Nakamura/Sakuraba, Nagata vs. Suzuki which can't be bad as I don't mind Nagata and love Suzuki. Some folks went gaga for the IWGP Jr. title 3-way and while I didn't find it particularly memorable, it was still a fun spotfest that fit in well on this card.

 

I'm waiting to get my hands on the April one which also sounded great.

 

For me, their shows over the last year or 2 have been very enjoyable and easy to sit through. Its presented more seriously than anything domestic and the wrestling is never bad even when not great. You've got a ton of different workers throughout the card with distinct characters and its a great way to pass a couple hours.

[jpchicago23]

Yea I've been watching bits and pieces and I just love how their footage I shot for some reason. They way they present their characters makes them seem so much more credible too. I'm gonna hit up ivp and get some new japan. Thanks for the recommendation

[WingedEagle]

Agreed, they present a great show. IVP's great too, my go to for anything I don't get online and he's got a lot available for download now as well.

[jpchicago23]

So i take it Tanahashi is the ace right now? Is Okada the next level down?

 

Also is NJPW tv from last year or this year available anywhere on dvd?

[rvd356]

So i take it Tanahashi is the ace right now? Is Okada the next level down?

 

Also is NJPW tv from last year or this year available anywhere on dvd?

I watch bits of it and loved sak/Nakumura & three way Juinor Dome matches. Honestly haven't watched the Tanahashi title bouts cus they're so long *yet*

 

Noah is so poor though these days(draws 1ooo or less). I only check out the kenta stuff. The Nagata match was good , & the marafuJi bout was great of 2o12 stuff. morshima sucks & always did. kobashis last match I will watch.

 

all Japan is worse.

 

So yes.

[jpchicago23]

yea it seems like the gaijins are all flocking to NJ and not really anywhere else. I have the 2013 shows ordered so i'm really wanting to check them out

[rvd356]

Hold up. kenta won the GHC Heavyweight belt?! Dang I watched the morshima/kenta match in

January but turned it off half way because I was bored & my boy wins the big one?! Good for him. Not sure the consensus(probably bad seeing how he does too many cool *moveZ*) but he's been my favorite Japanese pro wrestler since mutoh fell off in 'O7.

 

You've inspired me to watch the Tanahashi matches starting with 10.8.2012 - Hiroshi Tanahashi © vs. Minoru Suzuki. Good spot?(To the avid New Japan watchers??)

[rovert]

I will answer the thread topic with this year's G1 line up:

 

Group A: Tanahashi, Makabe, Goto, Kojima, Okada, Ishii, Lance Archer, DB Smith Jr, Devitt, Shibata

 

Group B: Tenzan, Nagata, Naito, Nakamura, Yaro, Takahashi, Suzuki, Shelton Benjamin, Karl Andersen, Kota Ibushi

Group A is beyond stacked and you have the intrigue of Devitt wrestling the Heavyweights and Ibushi in the mix.

[JoshEngleman]

I will answer the thread topic with this year's G1 line up:

 

Group A: Tanahashi, Makabe, Goto, Kojima, Okada, Ishii, Lance Archer, DB Smith Jr, Devitt, Shibata

 

Group B: Tenzan, Nagata, Naito, Nakamura, Yaro, Takahashi, Suzuki, Shelton Benjamin, Karl Andersen, Kota Ibushi

Group A is beyond stacked and you have the intrigue of Devitt wrestling the Heavyweights and Ibushi in the mix.

 

How quickly will stuff from the G1 be available to watch? I'd love to try and get through all of it without knowing what happens. Is that even possible?

[concrete1992]

Between G1 and BOSJ I feel that NJPW's motto for tournaments this year is "Stack the A Block". A Block really has so much awesomeness that will happen. ISHII!

 

Block B still looks pretty good. Suzuki, Nakamura and Naito will be able to provide us with some good matches. I can't fathom to guess at the possible MVP of G1 this year.

[Smack2k]

Would ANYthing today be even thought of as decent compared to 90's AJPW / NJPW and 2000's NOAH? I know the sport has declined in popularity but is the in-ring still really good in spots?

[anarchistxx]

Would ANYthing today be even thought of as decent compared to 90's AJPW / NJPW and 2000's NOAH? I know the sport has declined in popularity but is the in-ring still really good in spots?

I'd say 2012 NJPW is probably thought of as the closest thing to 90s AJPW since 2004 NOAH.

 

I think Puro is general is thought less of by the real diehards these days, who seem to prefer to explore 80s stuff and the territories and lucha and dislike the epic and spotty style of a lot of it. But among new fans, modern NJ seems to be to them what AJ was to tape traders in the 90s e.g. by far the best in ring wrestling product on the planet, at least for the heavyweights. Practically everyone is an 'internet fan' now though, so you can't really summarise the tastes, whereas in 2000 it was a select group of hardcores who generally all agreed on what they liked and were far more limited in terms of what they could watch. Views are far more diverse now, due in a large part to availability.

 

It's the same in a lot of things. Consensus, zeitgeist defining alternative albums are very much the exception now, because there is so much music available and so many diverse styles that people like.

[rovert]

Would ANYthing today be even thought of as decent compared to 90's AJPW / NJPW and 2000's NOAH? I know the sport has declined in popularity but is the in-ring still really good in spots?

It is far more fun than the furrowed brow consternation you seem to be going through. Just watch any of their iPPVs and decide for yourself.

[Smack2k]

Would ANYthing today be even thought of as decent compared to 90's AJPW / NJPW and 2000's NOAH? I know the sport has declined in popularity but is the in-ring still really good in spots?

I'd say 2012 NJPW is probably thought of as the closest thing to 90s AJPW since 2004 NOAH.

 

I think Puro is general is thought less of by the real diehards these days, who seem to prefer to explore 80s stuff and the territories and lucha and dislike the epic and spotty style of a lot of it. But among new fans, modern NJ seems to be to them what AJ was to tape traders in the 90s e.g. by far the best in ring wrestling product on the planet, at least for the heavyweights. Practically everyone is an 'internet fan' now though, so you can't really summarise the tastes, whereas in 2000 it was a select group of hardcores who generally all agreed on what they liked and were far more limited in terms of what they could watch. Views are far more diverse now, due in a large part to availability.

 

It's the same in a lot of things. Consensus, zeitgeist defining alternative albums are very much the exception now, because there is so much music available and so many diverse styles that people like.

 

Thanks for the helpful answer....will take a look....

[Sean Liska]

NJPW is just a lot of fun. I have my issues with some of their epic-style main events and don't go as crazy for them as someone like Meltzer might, but they still have a remarkably deep and diverse roster featuring varied in-ring styles. There's almost never anything bad. The title matches have big-match feels. The booking is really good, they build great feuds and stories, and the crowds are usually hot. I've gotten back to being a big fan over the past 2.5 years after thinking for a while that the fandom over modern NJPW was just a bunch of western Europeans that didn't see puro when it was really good. And now's a good time to jump in with the 7/20 PPV looking stacked and the G-1 Climax looking epic this year.

[Grimmas]

Sean Liska sums it up pretty well.

 

I haven't really watched puro in years, just bits and pieces. With NJPW getting all this hype the last few years, I started to watch the Dominion show right after it happened. Half way through, I was enjoying it so much that I went back to February's ppv and watched all the main shows since.

 

What I like about NJPW is that it varies so much. You have flyers, brawlers, technical, and cheating heels. This kind of format makes for the best wrestling product and it really helps. I'm enjoying it almost as much as WWE this year.

 

I think incorporating American style wrestling into NJPW has been a huge success. Prince Devitt turning heel and forming his Bullet Club stable was awesome to watch. His matches with all the interference and cheating are so much more fun to watch then his super junior stuff. You can only take so much it's all about sportsmanship in wrestling and it's nice to see the cheater. Plus his push has been so well booked.

 

That is another thing, the booking is well done. So straightforward and logical. The way title contenders are picked seems less helter skelter and makes a lot more sense. You can almost believe their is some championship committee watching the shows and picking the contenders based on wins and loses.

 

Not to mention the tag division, which is a lot of fun. They have brought him some CMLL guys which adds another flavour.

 

As for great matches, I will put up Okada-Tanahashi from Invasion Attack and Goto-Shibayata from Dominion with any other match this year.

 

To sum things up, I don't know if NJPW is the best puro promotion (because I've only seen NJPW), but it is definitely worth checking out. Especially if you avoided puro in the past because of how far away it is from American wrestling.

[Loss]

I watched Goto/Shibata because the descriptions of the match intrigued me. I thought it was garbage. The repeated no selling of the belly-to-back suplexes annoyed the fuck out of me, not to mention that I don't expect to see matches heralded for their "realism" that contain Russian legsweeps, lariats and Irish whips. Those things happening in a match aren't bad on their own, but it just shows a major disconnect from what I was expecting and how the match was described in the WON. It made me expect a RINGS-style match with sprinkles of pro-style moves mixed in. All the slapping during the figure four spot really makes the hold itself seem unimportant, and I HATE slugfests where they seem to just be waiting to deliver the next shot instead of individually selling each shot as something that hurts. Goto also has some really crappy, Edge-looking offense like that twirly-whatever thing that led to the nearfall around the 13-minute mark. But hey, the kicks were stiff. The finishing sequence didn't really build in a way where it was clear Shibata had any momentum. It was just two guys exchanging moves with none of them having much consequence, and then there was a finish. Not sure what made that last kick so devastating when they were so prevalent all the way through the match. I went in wanting to like this a lot, but I didn't at all.

[Dylan Waco]

I don't think it's any secret that I think NJPW is wildly overrated by many, but I also think it's almost certainly the best current company in Japan. I would rather watch Akiyama and Hama than anyone in NJPW besides Sakuraba and I could see a case for the Akiyama v. KAI Carnival final over Sakuraba v. Nakamura as Japanese MOTY, but AJPW has almost as much deadweight as NJPW, the booking is more annoying (though I still contend this years Dome show had shit booking that would have been viciously criticized across the board if it had been any other company on earth) and the cards are not as well put together and don't have as big a feel as NJPW. I could care less about or actively hate many of NJPW's biggest stars (Tanahashi, Okada, Goto, Devitt, Makabe, Anderson, Nagata, Makabe), but some of those guys can be reeled in and there are several guys on the roster I do like to some degree or another (Suzuki, Ishii, Nakamura, Sakuraba, Harry Smith, Naito, Shibata (at least in tags), maybe others I'm forgetting). In general New Japan isn't my thing, but I'm glad they seem to be doing well, and I really can't imagine any other company that runs regularly in Japan being superior to them at this point.

[NintendoLogic]

The most hilarious description I've seen of Goto/Shibata is Scott Keith saying it was like Brock/Cena but better. That match sucked, but Okada/Tanahashi from Invasion Attack is still my MOTY.

[Dylan Waco]

I watched Goto/Shibata because the descriptions of the match intrigued me. I thought it was garbage. The repeated no selling of the belly-to-back suplexes annoyed the fuck out of me, not to mention that I don't expect to see matches heralded for their "realism" that contain Russian legsweeps, lariats and Irish whips. Those things happening in a match aren't bad on their own, but it just shows a major disconnect from what I was expecting and how the match was described in the WON. It made me expect a RINGS-style match with sprinkles of pro-style moves mixed in. All the slapping during the figure four spot really makes the hold itself seem unimportant, and I HATE slugfests where they seem to just be waiting to deliver the next shot instead of individually selling each shot as something that hurts. Goto also has some really crappy, Edge-looking offense like that twirly-whatever thing that led to the nearfall around the 13-minute mark. But hey, the kicks were stiff. The finishing sequence didn't really build in a way where it was clear Shibata had any momentum. It was just two guys exchanging moves with none of them having much consequence, and then there was a finish. Not sure what made that last kick so devastating when they were so prevalent all the way through the match. I went in wanting to like this a lot, but I didn't at all.

 

The general lack of heat sections that even border on being compelling is probably my single biggest problem with much of modern indie and Japanese wrestling. The general and cliched criticisms about "MOVEZ" and nearfalls out the ass are things I don't entirely disagree with, especially when so many of those MOVEZ look like utter trash (for example Okada's finish, damn near all of Tanahashi's offense, aforementioned Goto crap, et), but ultimately the biggest problem is that so many of the matches just lack the sort of heat segments, hope spots, cut offs and comebacks that I really want out of a wrestling match.

 

The funny thing about Scott Keith's insane Brock v. Cena line is that the Sak v. Nak from the Dome was pretty damn close to an NJPW version of that match and was in no way similar to Shibata/Goto. Also if you want to see a match with solid control segment and pretty solid groundwork I'd recommend TAJIRI vs. Shinya Ishikawa, Dradition 5/29. It's a total Tajiri carry job, but it's pretty awesome stuff, probably my number three match of the year from Japan so far.

[rzombie1988]

NJPW is probably the best company in Japan right now but it is extremely overrated. Yes, the big shows are really good but the non-big shows aren't really that special.

 

There are four things that NJPW benefits from.

- NJPW benefits from Meltzer being into them. If Meltzer didn't pimp these shows and wasn't into them, no one would be talking about them.

 

- Live iPPV's. Running a wrestling website will teach you that anything live has about 10x more interest than anything taped, no matter what it is. I have no idea what is keeping the other Japanese promotions(besides DG) from running live iPPV's. I blame Japan not being up to change as much as anything else. So many companies are losing out.

 

- NJPW airs more shows than any other company. They have at least 5-7 shows aired a month, including their edited show on the national TV channel in Japan. By default, the more matches that are aired mean more good matches.

 

- They are pushing the non-Japanese. I'd say 1/3 to 1/2 of the cards are filled with gaijin now and gaijin gain interest from Japan and non-Japanese countries. NOAH doesn't let any gaijin near the main event scene, AJPW has Doering and that's really it and nobody watches Zero-1. DG does a good job too with the gaijin as does BJW. Japan seemingly forgot the gaijin though after the 90's. Minus AJPW and DG, no one used many gaijin throughout the 2000's, even though the Gaijin vs Japanese matches built Japanese wrestling.

 

Things to rip NJ for:

- They screwed up the booking of Shibata and Okada. They did take some good steps towards fixing those mistakes during the last PPV though.

- Karl Anderson is really not that good. I don't care what anyone says. He is at best a midcarder and is way too goofy. He does a step kick and cutters with little else.

- Prince Devitt is also not that good. I'm pretty sure he is getting the push mostly because NJPW is trying to appeal internationally with him. He's your typical junior and his non-stop dropkicks and stomps are annoying.

- I never want to see a high fly flow again. I think I counted 6+ HFF's in one of Tanahashi's recent big matches.

[rovert]

Someone signed up to Twitter last night with sole purpose to get me to incite a PWO vs F4W gang war.

 

- NJPW benefits from Meltzer being into them. If Meltzer didn't pimp these shows and wasn't into them, no one would be talking about them.

Miss the days Alan4L would be blamed on here for New Japan's popularity and tricking people into liking it. I would say word of mouth among fans is a bigger factor than Dave himself. Just this past weekend I have been asked to recommend some New Japan by people who have never read the Observer and their previous exposure was watching New Japan on Eurosport in mid 90s.

[Dylan Waco]

I don't think it's much of a stretch to say Dave starts a buzz and it trickles down. That's not to say people don't like what they see, but I see no reason to believe that Dave isn't the catalyst for a lot of the NJPW love we see today. That's also not to say people just like it to go along with Dave - Dave (and others) pimp it, people like it. Nothing wrong with that, even if I think NJPW is extremely overrated

[Jimmy Redman]

Yeah, it isn't so much that Dave is using his mind control powers on people, but rather just simply creating awareness of something by pimping it so heavily. Thanks to Dave's love of the product NJ has got substantially more coverage, reviews, mentions, radio time on the Observer site than any other kind of puro has in a long time. For someone who visits or subscribes who isn't already interested in New Japan, if you keep hearing about it over and over again, and especially keep hearing about how great it is, you might be inclined to check it out. Certainly more inclined than if you weren't constantly reminded of it's existence and greatness.

 

As someone who watches zero current puro, if I decided to start watching it today I would start with New Japan, because that is what is being talked about and pimped. I hear basically zero about anything else in puro these days, so I wouldn't have any idea where else to start. And I'm not someone who puts a whole lot of stock in Dave's opinions on wrestling.