Would Furnas and Lafon have been better off if . . .

[MikeCampbell]

Just something I was pondering randomly. If Furnas and Lafon jumped to the WWF straight from All Japan in late '95 or early '96 would they have gotten over any better? I tend to think so based on the fact that there would have been some better teams to work with. The Body Donnas and New Rockers would probably have had good matches with them, especially with Candido, Prichard, and Snow all knowing Doug from SMW. And even bigger teams like the Godwins and Smoking Gunns would probably have been willing to bump for them, knowin that Doug was strong enough to pretty much put them where he wanted to.

 

Another thing I was thinking about, would they have gotten over better in WCW if they went there instead of the WWF? That one, I'm not so sure about. Compared to teams like the Steiners, Harlem Heat, Faces of Fear, etc. they were basically cruiserweights. Hall and Nash would surely have squashed them like bugs. At best, I see them as little more than an obviously talented undercard tag team, having good matches with undercard teams like High Voltage, Gomez/Renegade, and make shift teams of Luchadores.

[Al]

They were actually fortunate timing wise in that they were an American/Canadian tag team pairing when the WWE's hot feud was USA vs Canada. But my recollection is that Lafon's car crash injuries derailed the team as much as anything.

[Guest Nell Santucci]

They were actually fortunate timing wise in that they were an American/Canadian tag team pairing when the WWE's hot feud was USA vs Canada. But my recollection is that Lafon's car crash injuries derailed the team as much as anything.

True, but they were losing steam even before that. It's not so much that Furnas and Lafon couldn't get over (though they were only over with smark crowds like MSG due to their high spots) as much as Vince's division of labor theory came into play when LOD was brought in. LOD was the mega-power team that undermined the WWF's answer to the Steiners (Furnas/Lafon). The outcome of that was a heel turn to shift the balance more, but that didn't work since there were no faces to feed them besides the Headbangers (who comparatively had more presence) and Bulldog/Owen was pitted against the Road Warriors. So they got lost in the shuffle. It didn't help, of course, that Doug Furnas was pushing 40 after a physically demanding run in All Japan. Whatever the case, it's unfortunate because they legitimately could have gotten over with a good manager and just having a shit-kicking gimmick. And even at that, I'm still not sure they could have gotten over as they had about as much personality as the Truth Commission. One of my favorite teams ever.

[Bix]

As heels with a good manager, they could have done fine. If you don't think they had "personality" or "charisma" then you haven't seen much of their work in AJPW. They were dick heels who were very theatrical.

[Guest Nell Santucci]

As heels with a good manager, they could have done fine. If you don't think they had "personality" or "charisma" then you haven't seen much of their work in AJPW. They were dick heels who were very theatrical.

I've seen some of their AJPW work, and they were excellent. Just how they worked in WWF, they had no personality there, even when they were heels. What's amazing about all that is Furnas and Lafon were Jim Ross guys, and Ross must have had a lot of influence in the back as head of talent. So it's surprising that their style was limited under the WWF platform. Outside of a handful of guys (Bret Hart, Steve Austin, Undertaker, Shawn Michaels, Owen Hart), they were the most engaging in the ring that year imo.

[Bix]

To be fair weren't they given the "boring" gimmick as soon as they turned heel?

[MikeCampbell]

Was there even really a heel turn? I just remember one of them (I'm guessing Doug) cutting a promo basically saying that they didn't feel like the fans were supporting them. And then, a few weeks later, they were jobbing to the Godwins.

[Guest Nell Santucci]

To be fair weren't they given the "boring" gimmick as soon as they turned heel?

I don't remember that, but it's possible. It's really a mindfuck to think just how forgettable and strangely executed that heel turn was because I was as big of a fan of that team as anyone and even rewatched early 1997 Raws last year, and I still can't tell you what they were thinking.

 

Basically, in an April Raw, they cut a promo saying that they didn't feel fans were respecting them. So LOD came out and beat them in minutes. (Unfortunate because that could have been a very good feud within a few weeks!) They continued the role for another week, and then it was dropped out of nowhere.

 

Was there even really a heel turn? I just remember one of them (I'm guessing Doug) cutting a promo basically saying that they didn't feel like the fans were supporting them. And then, a few weeks later, they were jobbing to the Godwins.

It was literally void of context and came out of nowhere. Knowing WWF's booking committee in 1997 before Shithead came along, this has Kevin Dunn written all over it. My guess is since Dunn hates wrestling, he felt compelled to take two fine workers, make them give a "We're boring wrestlers who like to break bones" act, job them out to a sports entertainment team like LOD (from their POV), and basically write them off TV like they did with the Patriot. I'm not one who thinks Vince hates wrestling like some believe, but I sincerely believe Kevin Dunn does and that most of the shit we see on TV has his fingerprint all over that.

 

EDIT: They never jobbed to the Godwinns AFAIK. Btw, they did wrestle LOD the next week and got the pin with interference from Bulldog and Owen. So they were heels for sure.

[MikeCampbell]

EDIT: They never jobbed to the Godwinns AFAIK.

They did on the house show circuit. 14 year old Mike Campbell saw Phil Lafon get pinned after the Slop Drop and died a little bit inside.

[Guest Nell Santucci]

EDIT: They never jobbed to the Godwinns AFAIK.

They did on the house show circuit. 14 year old Mike Campbell saw Phil Lafon get pinned after the Slop Drop and died a little bit inside.

 

Poor kid. I would have died too.

[tomk]

Just something I was pondering randomly. If Furnas and Lafon jumped to the WWF straight from All Japan in late '95 or early '96 would they have gotten over any better? I tend to think so based on the fact that there would have been some better teams to work with. The Body Donnas and New Rockers would probably have had good matches with them, especially with Candido, Prichard, and Snow all knowing Doug from SMW. And even bigger teams like the Godwins and Smoking Gunns would probably have been willing to bump for them, knowin that Doug was strong enough to pretty much put them where he wanted to.

In theory they would have also matched up nicely with the Southern Rockers and Destruction Crew if they were in the WWF 93-95.

That said are there any memorable good Southern Rockers, Destruction Crew, Bodydonnas or New Rockers matches?

I don't think people think of those teams as ones that got over successfully.

Not sure why one would think that Furnas/Lafon would have been more successful if they were working as foils to Bodydonnas, and NEw Rockers or Southern Rockers, Destruction Crew than they were opposite New Rockers, Bulldog/Owen.

[JerryvonKramer]

Another thing I was thinking about, would they have gotten over better in WCW if they went there instead of the WWF? That one, I'm not so sure about. Compared to teams like the Steiners, Harlem Heat, Faces of Fear, etc. they were basically cruiserweights. Hall and Nash would surely have squashed them like bugs. At best, I see them as little more than an obviously talented undercard tag team, having good matches with undercard teams like High Voltage, Gomez/Renegade, and make shift teams of Luchadores.

I think they would have gotten over better in a slightly earlier period. 1993 sort of time.

 

Imagine them feuding with Bagwell and Scorpio or Pretty Wonderful. That's a context in which I can see them fitting in 100% whether on the face side or the heel side.

[Johnny Guitar]

Just something I was pondering randomly. If Furnas and Lafon jumped to the WWF straight from All Japan in late '95 or early '96 would they have gotten over any better? I tend to think so based on the fact that there would have been some better teams to work with. The Body Donnas and New Rockers would probably have had good matches with them, especially with Candido, Prichard, and Snow all knowing Doug from SMW. And even bigger teams like the Godwins and Smoking Gunns would probably have been willing to bump for them, knowin that Doug was strong enough to pretty much put them where he wanted to.

In theory they would have also matched up nicely with the Southern Rockers and Destruction Crew if they were in the WWF 93-95.

That said are there any memorable good Southern Rockers, Destruction Crew, Bodydonnas or New Rockers matches?

I don't think people think of those teams as ones that got over successfully.

Not sure why one would think that Furnas/Lafon would have been more successful if they were working as foils to Bodydonnas, and NEw Rockers or Southern Rockers, Destruction Crew than they were opposite New Rockers, Bulldog/Owen.

 

Furnas/Lafon Vs Owen/Bulldog could have been one of the great tag team feuds.

 

I think they would have gotten over better in a slightly earlier period. 1993 sort of time.

 

Imagine them feuding with Bagwell and Scorpio or Pretty Wonderful. That's a context in which I can see them fitting in 100% whether on the face side or the heel side.

In 1993 they would have been perfect foil's for Austin & Pillman.

[Loss]

U.S. wrestling promotions stopped caring about tag teams in the 90s. I don't know that there was an ideal place for them in the U.S.

[Johnny Guitar]

U.S. wrestling promotions stopped caring about tag teams in the 90s. I don't know that there was an ideal place for them in the U.S.

Which is sad on so many levels.

[jdw]

They would have fit in best in the US if someone grabbed them in say 1989 (after the 6/89 Budokan) or in 1990, and stuck them with a good manager who could do the talking. After that... it's hard to say when they would have fit in. Like Loss says, tag team work died off in the US, as did the use of *useful* managers. They also were making a good living in Japan at a time when money was iffy in the US for midcarders. It's one reason why they took so long for leaving Japan: they needed to make a certain $$$ amount in the US to leave, and that number didn't come up until the moment they left for the WWF. And the WWF only got interested when they worked some spots in ECW.

 

They basically were an 80s Tag Team with 90s moves / pacing. They really into the 80s style better, and then the 00s style outside of the WWE. Just came along at the wrong time.

 

Or the right time, if they were good with their money (which is a big if). They made good money in All Japan for a long time, Baba took care of them, and they worked a lot less to make that money than a lot of the US peers. It was a brutal style, and they were broken down by the end of it... so there is a tradeoff there that's iffy, though. :/

[Bix]

Furnas always maintained during the early 90s, that working for All Japan was the greatest job in pro wrestling. The tours were stress fee. Your hotels were taken care of, transportation was taken care of, Japan became like a second home, and he learned how to live cheaply on the road. While most of the American stars from that era were party animals, Furnas was known for not being wild, and for being good with his money. He avoided eating out as much as possible, and was known for bringing cans of tuna from the U.S. in his luggage every tour. The money was very good, not great, but he’d note that he had 24 weeks off per year. With most of his road expenses taken care of, the money he could save was equivalent to what main eventers were making in the United States at the time plus have time to get completely away from wrestling and lead a normal life for weeks at a time.

After wrestling, Furnas at first went into social work, at a center for abused girls and boys in San Diego. He had no care about salary, just wanted to get started in the job as soon as possible, feeling this was the next stage of his life.

 

He also invested in the bull breeding business.

 

Lance Hickman, who hired him for the job, felt limited in what they could do and Furnas asked him what it would take for them to start their own group home. Hickman told him it would take $100,000 cash to get started. Furnas wrote the check and they started a group home out of his house in La Jolla, CA, an expensive San Diego suburb, where he and his wife lived.

Dunno about LaFon but it sure sounds like Furnas was smart with his money.

[jdw]

Yeah, Doug did seem good with his money from what I recall Dave saying.

 

Don't know about Phil. One would expect. Still, when you effectively stop working and making a decent income at the age of 35/36, now 16 years later... it's could get rough. People who make a heck of a lot more have run into issues when what seemed like reasonable investments go bad.

 

My recollection is that the last I read about Phil was that he was working on a degree in social work, which is pretty nice given Doug's work.