Where the Big Boys Play #48

[JerryvonKramer]

You might want a week to listen to this, because it took a month to make it ... Hope this serves as a nice reminder to guys who are still putting together their ballots, or I guess as an intro to AWA for anyone who hasn't yet picked up and watched the set.

 

Thanks to everyone who took part. As far as who is on what: first show is about 50 / 50 with Dylan and Brian mostly in the first half and Pete and Pete in the second half; second show is all Pete and Pete; third show is mostly just Dylan. Listening through, Matt D is almost like a missing 5th guy on these shows -- we should probably dedicate them to him.

 

EDIT: Get them all here: http://placetobenation.com/where-the-big-b...48-awa-special/

 

In a pretty full 3-part show, Chad and Parv welcome by turns Dylan Hales (aka Dylan Waco) and Brian Samec (aka Smack2k), and in a separate recording Pete (aka shoe) and Pete (aka PeteF3) to talk about the AWA in the 1980s with particular reference to the DVDR 1980s set.

 

Show #48a:

- Process of making the set and how the matches were chosen [12:49]

- Pre-conceptions of the AWA [20:17]

- Quirks of the AWA [33:24]

- Discussion of workers: Big John Studd [41:37], Rick Martel [46:23], Crusher Blackwell [01:01:01]

- Rankings, DVDR being down and Chad's plans to make a book of Matt D's match reviews [01:08:05]

 

Show #48b:

- Discussion of workers continued: Larry Zybysko [2:46], Sgt. Slaughter [12:15], Jerry Lawler [19:55], Curt Hennig [31:10], Buddy Rose and Doug Somers [44:14], Hulk Hogan [1:00:22], Wahoo McDaniel [1:22:41]

- Rose & Somers vs. Midnight Rockers Christmas Cage match / Matt D vs. goodhelmet discussion [51:12]

- Should Hogan have been made champ or was he always going to New York? Did he even need the title? [1:07:34]

- Worst workers [1:13:25]

- 150 picks [1:27:41]

 

Show #48c:

- "Revelations": Col. DeBeers [Pro: 3:18, Anti: 10:44], Jim Brunzell [16:40], Stan Hansen ("in the USA") [17:57], Boris Zhukov [25:28]

- Worst matches [30:21]

- Two camps or "factions" in the watchers of the set: the fetishism of violence vs. the worship of structure [37:38]

- The complete and total awesomeness of Nick Bockwinkel [51:37]

- Final thoughts [1:07:05]

[shoe]

I want to hear this just to hear how you edit it.

[Dylan Waco]

Yes I have no fucking clue how this will be edited but look forward to listening to it tomorrow.

 

One thing I want to note and I'm not sure this part of the conversation survived, but one of the big things that came out of this set to me was how visceral many of the disagreements were even among people who often disagree. There was really much less consensus then I would have guessed and that has bothered me and confused me all through the process mainly because I hadn't been able to figure out why this was the case. Shortly after we recorded I thing I sort of figured it out.

 

Basically it's my view that the level of disagreement and at times really spirited disagreement is because of the fact that the AWA lacked any real standard bearer matches coming in, nor was it a fed where anyone had a real fixed opinion on anything. In other words this set more so than others before it was a ground floor endeavor. People weren't just picking favorites, they were setting the table for how the AWA was being perceived in general. I'm sure some people will say that they weren't conscious of that but that's not necessarily the point. The point is that the lack of sacred cows, meant that to varying degrees everyone was trying to erect their own idols and/or keep things out of the pantheon that they thought weren't deserving.

[soup23]

Heres the link where you can stream all three parts at once.

 

http://placetobenation.com/where-the-big-b...48-awa-special/

 

Thanks again to Brain, Dylan, Pete & Pete for doing the show with us.

[JerryvonKramer]

Cheers Chad, I put that in the top post.

 

I want to hear this just to hear how you edit it.

In the second show there's a bit where we get about 30 seconds of Dylan clipped in during the Hogan talk. I'll give a cookie to anyone who can tell me where the dissolve sound effect comes from.

[PeteF3]

In the second show there's a bit where we get about 30 seconds of Dylan clipped in during the Hogan talk. I'll give a cookie to anyone who can tell me where the dissolve sound effect comes from.

It sounds like Wayne and Garth, but I wouldn't think they'd be on your radar, Parv.

[Johnny Sorrow]

Yes I have no fucking clue how this will be edited but look forward to listening to it tomorrow.

 

One thing I want to note and I'm not sure this part of the conversation survived, but one of the big things that came out of this set to me was how visceral many of the disagreements were even among people who often disagree. There was really much less consensus then I would have guessed and that has bothered me and confused me all through the process mainly because I hadn't been able to figure out why this was the case. Shortly after we recorded I thing I sort of figured it out.

 

Basically it's my view that the level of disagreement and at times really spirited disagreement is because of the fact that the AWA lacked any real standard bearer matches coming in, nor was it a fed where anyone had a real fixed opinion on anything. In other words this set more so than others before it was a ground floor endeavor. People weren't just picking favorites, they were setting the table for how the AWA was being perceived in general. I'm sure some people will say that they weren't conscious of that but that's not necessarily the point. The point is that the lack of sacred cows, meant that to varying degrees everyone was trying to erect their own idols and/or keep things out of the pantheon that they thought weren't deserving.

What's neat is there were a couple of matches I did have some preconceptions on, but those preconceptions were "Ah that's overrated." And I realized I was wrong. Mainly Hennig/ Bock draw and the Rockers/ Buddy and Doug stuff. The debut of the Master Blaster was as great as I remembered.

[Johnny Sorrow]

Jesus Fucking Christ. For the last time, Micheals was "a dick" in the cage match with Somers and Rose because the heels had been asking for it for months. Christ .

[JerryvonKramer]

In the second show there's a bit where we get about 30 seconds of Dylan clipped in during the Hogan talk. I'll give a cookie to anyone who can tell me where the dissolve sound effect comes from.

It sounds like Wayne and Garth, but I wouldn't think they'd be on your radar, Parv.

 

 

Course they are. You got it from that little bit?

[Matt D]

I haven't heard everything yet but I'll comment on one thing.

 

Re: me not giving credence to everything else in the Cage match, I do. Wrestling, however, is not something where you can take everything good and add it all up on a points system, not to me. How good the rest of the match is is actually part of what makes the terrible beginning so bad. It wouldn't be so bad if it was in a shit match. That it's in a match that should have been one of the greatest cage matches of all time is what it makes it so tragic and so terrible. Michaels basically digs himself so big a hole that no FIP performance and no heel beating can make up for it (not to mention things like Jannetty no selling the cage shot, etc). I hate the match so much not because there aren't great performances, but because they're completely ruined and invalidated. And even then I probably wouldn't hate it so much if they didn't run the same match a few weeks later without the glaring flaws so that I had it as a point of comparison. That's like salt into the wound.

 

There's plenty more to say but that'll be in a few days.

[Dylan Waco]

Jesus Fucking Christ. For the last time, Micheals was "a dick" in the cage match with Somers and Rose because the heels had been asking for it for months. Christ .

Jesus Fucking Christ. For the last time, it was still by far the worst part of any of the Doug/Buddy v. Rockers matches. Christ.

[JerryvonKramer]

Guys at this point I don't think anyone is going to change their minds. All anyone is doing is repeating themselves at this stage (although I didn't know that nuance about the second half in Matt's argument till just now).

 

We covered it on the show because I felt it was one of the stories of the set, but let's not have part 26 of the feud now. It'll just go round in circles again.

[Dustys Pencil]

Big argument and I haven't even listened yet lol

[soup23]

Dusty, this feud has been going on longer than Paul Jones vs. Boogie Woogie man.

[bradhindsight]

I laughed out loud for the Wayne's World transition to Dylan talking about Hogan, then back to Pete and Pete. Parv - you Dr. Frankenstein'd this podcast but i'm halfway through and it's been great.

[Dustys Pencil]

Dusty, this feud has been going on longer than Paul Jones vs. Boogie Woogie man.

 

LMAO i was going to say this looks like a hold over from another thread

[khawk20]

I'll give this a listen soon but I'm kind afraid to. Nobody likes hearing criticism of their children no matter how many good things are said about them beforehand.

[Matt D]

Khawk,

 

I think that the stock of the AWA, at least in our part of the internet, has risen hugely over the last year. You have to be glad about that.

[JerryvonKramer]

There really isn't a great deal of negativity on these shows, it's more or less 3 hours of critical appraisal. What negativity there is, is stuff you already know: I don't like Brad Rhenigans or his match with Martel, Chad doesn't like Debbie the Killer Tomato, Dylan doesn't like the Manny-Wahoo handheld (neither does anyone else really), PeteF3 and shoe don't like Col. DeBeers (as much as everyone else), no one likes Mr. Elecriticty Steven Regal. That's about it going off memory. I mean shit, even WOAT-contender Boris Zukhov gets his day in the sun here, which is still something I find mind blowing.

[Matt D]

If you only saw this set, you might think Zhukov is a Tier 4 guy or something. I'm not even totally kidding. It's nuts.

[khawk20]

There really isn't a great deal of negativity on these shows, it's more or less 3 hours of critical appraisal. What negativity there is, is stuff you already know: I don't like Brad Rhenigans or his match with Martel, Chad doesn't like Debbie the Killer Tomato, Dylan doesn't like the Manny-Wahoo handheld (neither does anyone else really), PeteF3 and shoe don't like Col. DeBeers (as much as everyone else), no one likes Mr. Elecriticty Steven Regal. That's about it going off memory. I mean shit, even WOAT-contender Boris Zukhov gets his day in the sun here, which is still something I find mind blowing.

My commentary was tongue in cheek.

 

It has become apparent in reading people's thoughts on this set that the stock of the AWA has risen in the eyes of many, and that is a good thing.

[Dustys Pencil]

I believe Doug Somers shows up on Global that has been airing on ESPN Classic in big 8 hour blocks lately

 

I'm actually going to watch the controversial match here at work while i listen to the show lol

[Kevin Ridge]

I haven't been over at DVDVR so the Sept. 15th deadline came out of nowhere for me. I have a very, very loose ballot in place from months ago. I think I'll try to rewatch some the high end stuff in the next few days to try finalize the top of ballot at least. Probably give this podcast a listen too to help me get motivated to put whole thing together.