Lucha Thoughts

[tim]

disk one rankings:

 

1. MS-1 vs. Sangre Chicana (9/23/83)

2. Espectro Jr., Satanico y MS-1 vs. Mocho Cota, Sangre Chicana y La Fiera (9/30/83)

3. Sangre Chicana vs. Ringo Mendoza (10/28/83)

4. Atlantis y El Hijo del Santo vs. Fuerza Guerrera y Lobo Rubio (11/25/83)

5. El Canek vs. Don Corleone (2/14/82)

6. Kevin von Erich, Mascara Ano 2000 y Halcon Ortiz v. Coloso Colosetti, Pirata Morgan y Herodes (9/23/83)

7. Satoru Sayama y Gran Hamada vs. Perro Aguayo y Baby Face (4/13/80)

8. Andre the Giant & Cien Caras vs. Alfonso Dantes, Herodes y Sangre Chicana (1981)

9. Tatsumi Fujinami vs. El Canek (6/12/83)

10. Centurion Negro vs. Gran Hamada (2/14/82)

[Graham Crackers]

Disc 1 rankings

 

1.) MS-1 vs. Sangre Chicana (9/23/83)

2.) Espectro Jr., Satanico y MS-1 vs. Mocho Cota, Sangre Chicana y La Fiera (9/30/83)

3.) Atlantis y El Hijo del Santo vs. Fuerza Guerrera y Lobo Rubio (11/25/83)

4.) Satoru Sayama y Gran Hamada vs. Perro Aguayo y Baby Face (4/13/80)

5.) Sangre Chicana vs. Ringo Mendoza (10/28/83)

6.) Centurion Negro vs. Gran Hamada (2/14/82)

7.) Kevin von Erich, Mascara Ano 2000 y Halcon Ortiz v. Coloso Colosetti, Pirata Morgan y Herodes (9/23/83)

8.) El Canek vs. Don Corleone (2/14/82)

9.) Andre the Giant & Cien Caras vs. Alfonso Dantes, Herodes y Sangre Chicana (1981)

10.) Tatsumi Fujinami vs. El Canek (6/12/83)

 

Pretty damn good disc. I don't hate the bottom 3 matches and they each had moments I thought were fun but they didn't really add up to compelling wholes. I could easily see them close to the bottom of my ballot in the end. If those end up being the three worst matches on the set then this set is looking pretty good. Other than MS-1 vs Sangre Chicana which probably won't have more than a few matches I rank above it, if any, it's pretty hard to guess where these matches would end up in a top 100.

 

That Santo match from his retirement tour at El Toreo de Cuatro Caminos looked awesome in highlight form.

[tim]

disk two rankings:

 

 

 

1. Mocho Cota vs. Americo Rocca (1/27/84)

2. Solar, Ultraman y Super Astro vs. Sergio El Hermoso, Bello Greco y Rudy Reyna (2/26/84)

3. Atlantis vs. El Satanico (1984)

4. Hijo del Santo, Ringo Mendoza y Chamaco Valaguez vs. Jerry Estrada, Fuerza Guerrera y Talisman (3/9/84)

5. Lizmark vs. El Satanico (April 1984)

6. Mocho Cota vs. Americo Rocca (2/3/84)

7. Tony Salazar vs. Herodes (3/2/84)

8. El Faraón, Herodes y Mocho Cota vs. Lizmark, Ringo Mendoza y Tony Salazar (2/24/84)

9. Enrique Vera vs. Dos Caras (2/26/84)

10. Atlantis y Lizmark vs. El Egipcio y El Faraón (2/17/84)

11. Jerry Estrada vs. Ultraman (3/2/84)

[JerryvonKramer]

Housekeeping

 

Lucha d1

 

A*

MS-1 vs. Sangre Chicana (9/23/83)

 

A

Atlantis y El Hijo del Santo vs. Fuerza Guerrera y Lobo Rubio (11/25/83)

 

B

Satoru Sayama y Gran Hamada vs. Perro Aguayo y Baby Face (4/13/80)

 

B-

Espectro Jr., Satanico y MS-1 vs. Mocho Cota, Sangre Chicana y La Fiera (9/30/83)

Centurion Negro vs. Gran Hamada (2/14/82)

El Canek vs. Don Corleone (2/14/82)

 

C+

Kevin von Erich, Mascara Ano 2000 y Halcon Ortiz v. Coloso Colosetti, Pirata Morgan y Herodes (9/23/83)

Tatsumi Fujinami vs. El Canek (6/12/83)

 

C

Sangre Chicana vs. Ringo Mendoza (10/28/83)

 

D+

Andre the Giant & Cien Caras vs. Alfonso Dantes, Herodes y Sangre Chicana (1981)

[tim]

disk three rankings

 

1. Gran Cochisse vs. Satanico (9/14/84)

2. El Satanico y Espectro Jr. v. El Faraón y La Fiera (8/12/84)

3. Javier Cruz, Impacto y Solar II vs. El Dandy, Franco Colombo y Panico (10/84)

4. Perro Aguayo vs. Sangre Chicana vs. El Faraón vs. Villano III (10/84)

5. Satanico vs. Shiro Koshinaka (7/30/84)

6. Sangre Chicana vs. MS-1 (9/21/84)

7. Satanico vs. Super Astro (10/26/84)

8. Villano III vs. Perro Aguayo (10/7/84)

9. Atlantis, Ringo Mendoza y Tony Salazar vs. El Satanico, MS-1 y Espectro Jr. (9/28/84)

[Graham Crackers]

1984 Rankings:

 

1.) Gran Cochise vs. Satanico (9/14/84)

2.) Solar, Ultraman y Super Astro vs. Sergio El Hermoso, Bello Greco y Rudy Reyna (2/26/84)

3.) Mocho Cota vs. Americo Rocca (1/27/84)

4.) Tony Salazar vs. Herodes (3/2/84)

5.) Satanico vs. Shiro Koshinaka (Hair vs. Hair) (7/30/84)

6.) Hijo del Santo, Ringo Mendoza y Chamaco Valaguez vs. Jerry Estrada, Fuerza Guerrera y Talisman (3/9/84)

7.) Gran Cochise, Villano III y Rayo De Jalisco Jr. vs. Fishman, Mocho Cota y Tony Bennetto (11/30/84)

8.) Perro Aguayo vs. Sangre Chicana vs. El Faraón vs. Villano III (Elimination Match) (10/84)

9.) El Satanico y Espectro Jr. v. El Faraón y La Fiera (8/12/84)

10.) Atlantis vs. El Satanico (1984)

11.) Satanico vs. Super Astro (10/26/84)

12.) Mocho Cota vs. Americo Rocca (2/3/84)

13.) Sangre Chicana vs. MS-1 (Hair vs. Hair) (9/21/84)

14.) Atlantis, Ringo Mendoza y Tony Salazar vs. El Satanico, MS-1 y Espectro Jr. (9/28/84)

15.) Lizmark vs. El Satanico (April 1984)

16.) Enrique Vera vs. Dos Caras (2/26/84)

17.) Atlantis y Lizmark vs. El Egipcio y El Faraón (2/17/84)

18.) Sangre Chicana vs. Villano III (12/7/84)

19.) Javier Cruz, Impacto y Solar II vs. El Dandy, Franco Colombo y Panico (10/84)

20.) El Faraón, Herodes y Mocho Cota vs. Lizmark, Ringo Mendoza y Tony Salazar (2/24/84)

21.) Villano III vs. Perro Aguayo (10/7/84)

22.) Javier Cruz vs. El Dandy (Hair vs. Hair) (10/26/84)

23.) Jerry Estrada vs. Ultraman (3/2/84)

 

These may change, especially after I watch some of these matches again but the top 3 are pretty much locked. I did watch match number 9 again and while it wasn't easy to follow every moment the crazy finish and truly wild violence really make it stand out. This seems like a pretty good year for lucha going by what we have and Satanico has a pretty good case for WOTY.

[Exposer]

Disc One Rankings:

 

1. MS-1 vs. Sangre Chicana (9/23/83)

 

2. Atlantis y El Hijo Del Santo vs. Fuerza Guerrera y Lobo Rubio (11/25/83)

 

3. Sangre Chicana vs. Ringo Mendoza (10/28/83)

 

4. Centurion Negro vs. Gran Hamada (2/14/82)

 

5. Satoru Sayama y Gran Hamada vs. Perro Aguayo y Baby Face (4/13/80)

 

6. Espectro Jr., Satanico, y MS-1 vs. Mocho Cota, Sangre Chicana, y La Fiera (9/30/83)

 

7. El Canek vs. Don Corleone (2/14/82)

 

8. Kevin Von Erich, Mascara Ano 2000, y Halcon Ortiz vs. Coloso Colosetti, Pirata Morgan, y Herodes (9/23/83)

 

9. Tatsumi Fujinami vs. El Canek (6/12/83)

 

10. Andre the Giant y Cien Caras vs. Alfonso Dantes, Herodes, y Sangre Chicana (1981)

 

 

I dug the El Santo tributes in the extras section. That one match looked awesome with just the highlights. Anyways, this disc was very good overall. The first half was a little underwhelming but MS-1-Chicana opened things up and now it's looking like the potential for an extraordinary set.

 

MVP: Sangre Chicana - This guy is one of the best sellers of all time. Incredible performer.

 

Honorable Mention: Gran Hamada - He had a great brawl and a great title match. Variation is a big plus in my book and Hamada has that on the little time he is on this set.

[goodhelmet]

Post your overall thoughts and rankings here.

[Exposer]

Disc 2 Rankings:

 

1. Mocho Cota vs. Americo Rocca (2/3/84)

2. Lizmark vs. El Satanico (April 1984)

3. Mocho Cota vs. Americo Rocca (1/27/84)

4. Solar, Ultraman, y Super Astro vs. Sergio El Hermoso, Bello Greco, y Rudy Reyna (2/26/84)

5. Tony Salazar vs. Herodes (3/2/84)

6. El Faraon, Herodes, y Mocho Cota vs. Lizmark, Ringo Mendoza, y Tony Salazar (2/24/84)

7. Atlantis vs. El Satanico (1984)

8. Atlantis y Lizmark vs. El Egipcio y El Faraon (2/17/84)

9. Enrique Vera vs. Dos Caras (2/26/84)

10. Hijo del Santo, Ringo Mendoza y Chamaco Valaguez vs. Jerry Estrada, Fuerza Guerrera y Talisman (3/9/84)

11. Jerry Estrada vs. Ultraman (3/2/84)

 

This was a really good disc. The top four or five matches were really great. This is looking to be one of the better sets out so far.

 

MVP: Mocho Cota - This guy is world class level in pretty much every category but he doesn't have any footage past basically what we have on this set. He's an all time level talent from what I've seen.

 

Honorable mention: Herodes - He's been a nice gem from this set. He's a great muscle in trios for the rudos and his brawls with Tony Salazar were awesome. Very good worker.

[Exposer]

Disc 3 Rankings:

 

1. Gran Cochise vs. Satanico (9/14/84)

 

2. Satanico vs. Shiro Koshinaka (Hair vs. Hair) (7/30/84)

 

3. El Satanico y Espectro Jr. vs. El Faraon y La Fiera (8/12/84)

 

4. Perro Aguayo vs. Sangre Chicana vs. El Faraon vs. Villano III (Elimination Match) (10/84)

 

5. Satanico vs. Super Astro (10/84)

 

6. Sangre Chicana vs. MS-1 (Hair vs. Hair) (9/21/84)

 

7. Villano III vs. Perro Aguayo (10/7/84)

 

8. Javier Cruz, Impacto y Solar II vs. El Dandy, Franco Colombo y Panico (10/84)

 

9. Atlantis, Ringo Mendoza y Tony Salazar vs. El Satanico, MS-1 y Espectro Jr. (10/84)

 

This was the hardest disc to rank on the set so far by a wide margin. I mean 4-8 are basically interchangeable. I really wanted to have the Cruz-Dandy match higher here but I couldn't justify it because of the clipping and the entire first fall being missing. The Los Infernales tag is very good so that says how good this set is when a very good match finishes last on a disc. Also, I enjoyed the Andre-Canek clips. Andre looked tremendous.

 

MVP: Satanico - He wins this by a landslide. He has four of the top five matches on this list and managed to have one of the greatest performances in wrestling history in the match with Cochise.

 

Honorable Mention: Perro Aguayo - I want to mention a new name for every honorable mention on each disk so I chose Perro here. I liked him a lot in the title match with Villano III and thought he was better in some ways. Of course, he was awesome in the elimination match and his showdown with Chicana was great.

[ohtani's jacket]

Those Mascara Sagrada botches on disc 7 are horrendous. I've never felt so bad for a base in all my viewing years.

[Graham Crackers]

1985 rankings:

 

1.) La Fiera, El Faraón y El Egipico vs. MS-1, Satanico y Pirata Morgan (3/29/85)

2.) El Solitario vs. Dr. Wagner (Mask vs. Mask) (12/1/85)

3.) El Hijo del Santo & Black Shadow Jr. vs. Espanto Jr. & Eskeletor (12/1/85)

4.) Atlantis vs. El Faraón (3/22/85)

5.) Raul Reyes Jr. & Climax vs Mocho Cota & Loco Zavala Sonora 1985

6.) Americo Rocca vs. El Talisman (3/29/85)

7.) Lizmark, Mil Mascaras & Valente Fernandez vs. Sangre Chicana, Angel Blanco & Angel Blanco Jr. (12/1/85)

 

The top match here is in my top 4 or 5 so far. Number 2 is close to the middle and everything else is scattered around the bottom half.

[Graham Crackers]

1986

 

1.) Espanto Jr. vs El Hijo Del Santo (Mask vs. Mask) (8/31/86)

2.) La Fiera vs. Babyface (8/15/86)

3.) Sangre Chicana vs. Perro Aguayo (Hair vs. Hair) (2/28/86)

4.) Americo Rocca, Cacharro Mendoza y Kung Fu vs. El Talisman, El Dandy y Guerrero Negro (September 1986)

5.) Babyface, Cien Caras y Mascara Ano 2000 vs. Lizmark, Rayo De Jalisco y La Fiera (September 1986)

6.) Pirata Morgan, BabyFace y Cien Caras vs. La Fiera, Lizmark y Rayo De Jalisco Jr. (September 1986)

7.) Rayo De Jalisco Jr. vs. Mascara Ano 2000 (8/15/86)

8.) Blue Panther, El Talisman y El Dandy vs. Stuka, America Rocca y Chamaco Valaguez (11/86)

9.) Ringo Mendoza, Atlantis y Ultraman vs. Satanico, Masakre y MS-1, (September 1986)

10.) Lizmark, Alfonso Dantes y Tony Salazar vs. El Signo, El Texano y Negro Navarro) (8/15/86)

11.) Americo Rocca, Ringo Mendoza y Tony Salazar vs. Negro Navarro, El Signo y El Texano (Hair vs. Hair) (9/19/86)

[Graham Crackers]

1987

 

1.) El Hijo del Santo vs. Negro Casas (Mask vs. Hair) (7/18/87)

2.) Jerry Estrada, Pirata Morgan y Hombre Bala vs. Atlantis, Alfonso Dantes y Rayo De Jalisco Jr. (Feb 1987)

3.) El Satanico, MS-1 y Masakre vs. Rayo de Jalisco Jr., La Fiera y Tony Salazar (3/20/87)

4.) Blue Panther/Sergio El Hermosa v. Super Astro/Solar (10/17/87)

5.) Atlantis, El Hijo del Santo y Tony Salazar vs. El Satanico, El Dandy y Espectro Jr. (4/3/87)

6.) Mogur vs. As Charro (Mask vs. Mask) (9/18/87)

7.) Cien Caras vs. Siglo XX (4/10/87)

8.) Rayo de Jalisco Jr., Atlantis y Alfonso Dantes vs. MS-1, El Satanico y El Dandy (3/27/87)

9.) Lizmark, La Fiera y Kung Fu vs. Pirata Morgan, Hombre Bala y Jerry Estrada (2/27/87)

10.) Americo Rocca, Javier Cruz y Chamaco Valaguez vs. Talisman, El Dandy y Guerrero Negro (3/13/87)

11.) Tony Salazar, Mogur y Alfonso Dantes vs. Hombre Bala, Talisman y Tony Bennetto vs. Satanico, MS-1 y Masakre (4/10/87)

12.) El Dandy, Magico y Super Astro vs. Gran Cochise, Javier Cruz y Javier Rocca (11/11/87)

 

1988

 

1.) Pirata Morgan, Hombre Bala y Verdugo vs. Atlantis, Angel Azteca y Ringo Mendoza (3/88)

2.) Pirata Morgan vs. El Dandy (Hair vs. Hair) (9/23/88)

3.) El Hijo Del Santo vs. Espanto Jr. (4/10/88)

4.) Atlantis vs. Emilio Charles Jr. (8/12/88)

5.) Arandu vs. Guerrero Negro (Hair vs. Hair) (1988)

6.) Kung Fu v. Javier Cruz (3/88)

7.) Mogur vs. Mascara Ano 2000 (Mask vs. Mask) (9/23/88)

8.) Blue Demon, Blue Demon Jr. y Ringo Mendoza vs. Emilio Charles Jr., Pirata Morgan y Satanico (11/25/88)

9.) Kato Kung Lee vs. Kung Fu (Mask vs. Hair) (4/29/88)

 

This is going to be really hard to rank in the end. A lot of these rankings feel like they could change when I go back and organize my ballot.

[Kevin Ridge]

So for the folks who have been working through this set how does it compare to say AWA as far as enjoyment/great matches? I've been putting off jumping into Lucha though I am eager to get into this after watching 90's yearbooks and listening to the 80's hype podcast. From the talk on that show it seemed like it we were getting the best of the best matches which probably going to make it hard to rank them overall.

[Zenjo]

So for the folks who have been working through this set how does it compare to say AWA as far as enjoyment/great matches? I've been putting off jumping into Lucha though I am eager to get into this after watching 90's yearbooks and listening to the 80's hype podcast. From the talk on that show it seemed like it we were getting the best of the best matches which probably going to make it hard to rank them overall.

I haven't watched the AWA set but I can confidently say it's more enjoyable with more great matches. No need to wait to jump into the Lucha set. It's not wall to wall great matches by any means. There are huge amounts of unavailable shows from the 80's, so it's nowhere close to being a top 100 televised lucha matches of the decade. I think there's a nice balance of stuff. Plus you only have to rank 100 matches rather than 150.

[Matt D]

I think the match quality is extremely high but there's also a higher level of difficulty from a novice. You're dropped into these not knowing who you're looking at a lot and also the matches tend to go longer. Well worth it though, and the DVDVR notes and a lot of the podcasts help. I still wish someone would write a match by match cheat sheet.

[Kevin Ridge]

Khawk was great for that extra info about AWA. I'll start my viewing in January and then listen to podcasts after I watch each disk. I'm sure Kris and Phil or whoever else shows up on those shows provide extra knowledge of the stuff. It would be nice to have the sheet to help out with rankings (Mookieghana!) before getting into things to help me rank stuff as I watch.

[tim]

Finished today. Great, great set overall but ends on a down note as the last two disks are probably the weakest overall. LUCHA SET MVPs:

 

1. El Satanico

2. Sangre Chicana

3. El Dandy

4. Mocho Cota

5. Atlantis

 

Current top 20. Aside from one or two matches these are just the ongoing rankings I made in real time without rewatching anything, so this may look well different when it is finalized many months down the line after I rewatch some stuff:

 

1. MS-1 vs. Sangre Chicana (9/23/83)

2. Gran Cochisse vs. Satanico (9/14/84)

3. Mocho Cota vs. Americo Rocca (1/27/84)

4. Espanto Jr. vs El Hijo Del Santo (8/31/86)

5. Sangre Chicana vs. Satanico (5/26/89)

6. Sangre Chicana vs. Perro Aguayo (2/28/86)

7. Emilio Charles, Fabuloso Blondy y Pirata Morgan vs. El Dandy, Atlantis & El Faraón (7/21/89)

8. Espectro Jr., Satanico y MS-1 vs. Mocho Cota, Sangre Chicana y La Fiera (9/30/83)

9. Solar, Ultraman y Super Astro vs. Sergio El Hermoso, Bello Greco y Rudy Reyna (2/26/84)

10. La Fiera, El Faraón y El Egipico vs. MS-1, Satanico y Pirata Morgan (3/29/85)

11. Pirata Morgan vs. El Dandy (9/23/88)

12. Atlantis vs. El Faraón (3/22/85)

13. La Fiera vs. Babyface (8/15/86)

14. El Solitario vs. Dr. Wagner (12/1/85)

15. El Dandy, Magico y Super Astro vs. Gran Cochise, Javier Cruz y Javier Rocca (11/11/87)

16. Arandu vs. Guerrero Negro (1988)

17. Mogur vs. As Charro (9/18/87)

18. Pirata Morgan, Hombre Bala y Verdugo vs. Atlantis, Angel Azteca y Ringo Mendoza (3/88)

19. Pirata Morgan vs. Brazo De Oro (11/17/89)

20. El Satanico y Espectro Jr. v. El Faraón y La Fiera (8/12/84)

[soup23]

Congrats on finishing tim. I found your 1989 thoughts interesting as I figured going in that would be a high point of the set but like you said those were problem some of the weakest in your opinion.