Wrestle Kingdom 8

[Loss]

I'll start this out by clarifying for those who don't know that this is the first New Japan show I have watched since the critical resurgence that started a few years back. I think the newest New Japan match I've seen is probably a Giant Bernard match from 2006 and even then, that was in isolation and not something I remember all that much. Before that, I remember catching the Tokyo Dome shows in 1999 and 2000 in passing, but I don't really remember details.

 

I've grown to be a very big fan of New Japan Pro Wrestling as I've watched 90s yearbooks. While I don't think the heavyweights were at the level of their All Japan counterparts, I do think they were excellent workers and on the right night, they were capable of producing something special. I liked the simplicity and stiffness of New Japan main events. I loved Choshu's booking. So this is a promotion I have an affection for.

 

That's not to say that I expected this to be a continuation of that lineage. Wrestling in Japan has been in shambles for a long time, and it's not like there's much that the old New Japan gave the new New Japan. And that's not necessarily a bad thing on its own. While I think Riki Choshu was the greatest booker of all time and was a huge fan of guys like Hashimoto, Liger and Otani, I realize that times change and that wrestling does too.

 

A few years ago, I started hearing buzz that New Japan was resurgent. A name I saw thrown around frequently was Hiroshi Tanahashi. Dave Meltzer seemed to love him. A lot of guys in our circle didn't. And that's fairly typical - we've seen the same thing happen with A.J. Styles, post-comeback Shawn Michaels and Kurt Angle, among others. There were some guys that our circle was divided on that Dave loved, like KENTA and Naomichi Marufuji. Then there are those that everyone seemed to love, like Bryan Danielson and prime Samoa Joe.

 

The Tanahashi criticism within our circle wasn't really enough for me to dismiss New Japan without thought. I knew I'd get to it eventually and form my own opinion. I had a general idea that Dylan didn't care for New Japan as much as most, and that S.L.L. found it difficult to get Tanahashi fans to talk about what they liked about him. That was pretty much all I knew. I tried to avoid as much of the discussion as possible because I didn't want it to affect my opinion.

 

People who know me know I have all sorts of problems with modern day wrestling. But at the same time, I don't long for yesteryear. I want every wrestling promotion to take chances, create new stars and deliver in the ring. Perhaps I care too much about things that aren't a priority in wrestling anymore, like good booking and wrestling that generally makes sense and can compel me to suspend my disbelief. But I know what I like. That said, I felt like I hadn't been completely fair to some stuff that has happened in modern times. I would tune into a random episode of RAW, see three segments that I hated, and decide that modern WWE sucked, and turn the TV off for the night. I tried to watch 2011 wrestling a little while back and had to stop because I saw so many things in the in-ring style that irritated me as a wrestling fan. I thought maybe time had passed me by, but I hoped it hadn't. I want to like new wrestling, because we all benefit from more wrestling being out there that's good and worth watching. So the excitement about New Japan gave me hope.

 

I entered this show not really knowing much about most of the roster, unless they are vets who worked in the 90s or before. I didn't know what direction they were taking or how any of the major feuds are progressing. In fact, some of the thoughts I post on matches are going to be oddly written because I can't even fully distinguish participants in some of the matches. I had all these thoughts written about what I thought was a Tanahashi vs Okada match in the semi-main spot, not realizing that was Naito vs Okada. I never would have thought that Tanahashi's bizarre hairstyle would be popular enough to be copied by someone else.

 

So here are the opinions of a longtime wrestling fan and longtime Old New Japan Pro Wrestling fan who's a total novice when it comes to New New Japan Pro Wrestling. I plan on following the promotion in the coming year, and I might look back at this thread and be embarrassed by some of the things I wrote here. Who knows? But this is my first impression for whatever that's worth.

 

Hiroyoshi Tenzan, Tomoaki Honma, Captain New Japan & BUSHI vs Manabu Nakanishi, Super Strong Machine, Jushin Thunder Liger & Yohei Komatsu

 

What? Super Strong Machine? I'm guessing that's not Junji Hirata. I should have looked at match participants as I was watching the show instead of waiting until after it was over. I also didn't recognize that Nakanishi was in this match. Of course I recognized Liger. That outfit was awfully clever because he can probably see his 50th birthday from his house at this point, yet he doesn't physically look like he's aged at all. We should all wear Liger outfits. Tenzan looked pretty good too. It may have just been the nostalgia talking, but I liked this match. There were probably a few too many bodies in the ring, to the point where it was difficult to make anyone stand out in a meaningful way. But the match was laid out well, had good action and involved the crowd. I don't know who the blond highspot kid was but he impressed me. I'd go ***1/4 on this.

 

We're off to a good start! That's the pre-show match, and even the pre-show match was very good.

 

The Young Bucks vs KUSHIDA & Alex Shelly vs TAKA Michinoku & Taichi vs Rocky Romero & Alex Koslov

 

I didn't really connect with this at all. I couldn't figure out if some of these spots were supposed to be played for comedy or if they were supposed to be cool double team spots. This also felt too "American" from what I want from Japanese wrestling, which is a recurring theme throughout the night. The multi-man suplex spot caused a part of me to die. Was that invented in this match? Is that something that has been copied? If so, I'm not sure I can live anymore. This was overly cute and the Young Bucks seem like Nise Hardy Boys. This sucked. It was cool to see Taka, but he was doing commentary during the match and he's not The Rock and this is not an American show, so fuck that.

 

Karl Anderson & DOC Gallows vs Lance Archer & Davey Boy Smith Jr.

 

Did you know that Dave once claimed that the reason the 15 years experience/35 years of age rule for the WON HOF has a caveat of "major league" experience was because Harry Smith started wrestling at 14 years old and he didn't want him getting in too soon? I don't think you have to worry about that happening, Dave. We can all hold off a while before rushing to vote Davey Boy Smith Jr. into the Hall of Fame. Yeah, this also sucked. Everyone wrestled like Adam Bomb -- tall with long hair doing awkward throws from a full nelson position. Everyone throws forearms because not a one of them have a clue how to throw a good working punch. Every double team move seemed destined to happen from the same contrived headlock on teammate one while headscissoring teammate two position. Who is the dude wrestling like indy Undertaker doing the chokeslam teases and rope walking? Talk about bush league. Derivative wrestling featuring a lot of guys with execution problems.

 

Satoshi Kojima vs Rob Conway

 

Let's put a stereotypical one dimensional American gimmick out there! Wow, Rob Conway sucks. I'm happy that he's found a promotion where he can take all the steroids he wants without being drug tested, but he doesn't even do the adonis gimmick all that well. He reminds me of a lesser version of 1980-81 Kevin Sullivan. At least Sullivan was good at fundamentals and cutting a decent pace between all the stalling and posing. This had bad execution on the forearms to the chest and pitiful acting. I didn't buy for a second that Conway was pissed at Kojima's kickouts. He was just acting. And there seems to be no effort to protect moves from match to match, as I've seen far too many Ace Crushers on this card. This has the worst of ECW with pointless seconds surrounding the ring. When did Japan become all about outside interference? I will give them credit for doing a well-executed finish that popped the crowd, but I am not understanding why New Japan is so American style in the ring work.

 

Daniel & Rolles Gracie vs Kazushi Sakuraba & Yuji Nagata

 

Well this was crap. Are the Gracies supposed to be lame fake shooters that can't throw strikes? Are they supposed to be cheating shooters? Cowardly shooters? I don't get it. Sakuraba and Nagata looked just fine here, but wow the Gracies were bad.

 

Great Muta & Tori Yano vs Minoru Suzuki & Shelton Benjamin

 

Shelton loves to swear at everyone. I like his attempts at aggression and developing a personality, but I don't really buy it. That said, I think he could have another U.S. run. Gotta give Muto credit for having nine lives and continuously finding ways to keep reinventing himself through the years. Overbooked to shit and again I have to ask when things got this way in Japan. The appeal of Japanese wrestling for me was never that I didn't like promos and angles, but more that the American promotions screwed them up more often than not, and at least when you watched the Japanese promotions, that stuff wouldn't be in the way and you could just focus on the matches. That's not at all the case on this show. I don't know yet if that's good or bad, but it's different and it makes New Japan not feel as different from WWE as it should.

 

Togi Makabe vs King Fale

 

This was the best match since the opener. Still, it felt like a lesser version of Bret Hart vs Diesel from Survivor Series in '95. The tall guy has a very 90s Diesel offense. This is decent, but a lack of expressive selling kept it from being better.

 

Hirooki Goto vs Katsuyori Shibata

 

This is a solid match but there are some quirks. Again, not a fan of guys who won't learn to throw good punches and use forearms as a crutch, but these guys are interesting in that they ball up their fists to tease punches, then sneak in a forearm instead. You aren't fooling anyone if that's what you think. Good selling and stiff moves, but what is popping up after suplexes and lariats supposed to do except bury those moves as anything that matters? Where these guys deserve credit is that this is really wrestled like two guys who know their audience really well. They are in command of them and that's cool. This worked best when it was simple. When they got too fancy with the aforementioned popping up and the weird snapmare on the knee thing that looks horribly botched but I don't think is, the match suffers. Is this what passes for a MOTYC nowadays? I had this feeling this will be a loved match when I was watching it even though I'm not someone who will love it.

 

Prince Devitt vs Kota Ibushi

 

I hated this more than anything on the show. This didn't have a chance because of all of the interference. What has happened in wrestling when you are more likely to watch a WWE match that has no outside interference than a New Japan one? This is nothing but cheap heat. One guy making a comeback against this many - and never seeming all that concerned about the odds facing him - is preposterous. It shows how much they added to the match when the heels getting ejected from ringside didn't even get a pop. This match was some better after that, but even then, it was really empty wrestling - just highspots and kickouts. Do any moves mean more than others?

 

Kazuchika Okada vs Tetsuya Naito

 

Then this match happened. And all was well in the universe. I absolutely loved everything about this match. Neither of these guys feels like a torchbearer, as the New Japan top guys are often described. But this match is wrestled in the spirit of wrestling that I do enjoy - a nice slow build with good offense and a big climax. I'm sure if I tried really hard I could poke holes in this match, but what would be the point? This was better than anything else going on in wrestling today that I'm aware of, and it put a smile on my face. Early MOTYC.

 

Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Shinsuke Nakamura

 

Tanahashi's porcupine hairstyle is distracting. I do think this was good, and I really dug Nakamura's offense. But this felt anticlimactic after the last match and never really kicked into second gear. I'm not sure that was all their fault. They probably would have benefitted from a buffer match.

 

***

 

I'm going to keep watching New Japan and I realize that it's quite possible my opinion will turn around as I gain understanding of context and appreciation for some of the characters, and also that some of what I wrote will seem silly a few months from now. But aside from Naito vs Okada, nothing on this show felt worth my time.

[Dylan Waco]

I will post my review in a few hours when I am done with the show.

 

One thing I would say Loss is that you should watch the main event of the 12/23 show which I thought was actually as good an NJPW main event players match as I've seen out of these guys.

 

The other thing I would say is that you should watch the 12/21 show to see what the main event guys do against undercard talent because I thought that was an interesting show.

 

I agree with a lot of your thoughts, but not all of them. More later.

[concrete1992]

As someone you probably likes NJPW more than most around here I'll say I'm surprised by how much you enjoyed Okada vs. Naito, granted I need to rewatch it myself since I was running off 3 hours of sleep and like over 4 hours into the show. On first watch it had one of those issues with NJPW main events in that it feels like it goes long to go long with little meat to keep me attached.

 

And NEXT this probably was one of the weaker major NJPW show from a NJPW fan's perceptive.

[rzombie1988]

Punches are illegal in NJPW.

[Dylan Waco]

Punches are illegal in NJPW.

I actually already mentioned that to Loss, his follow up was pretty funny, I'll let him deliver it

[Loss]

Punches are illegal in NJPW.

Just like outside interference. In plain sight of the referee, no less.

[Bix]

It's worth pointing out that of the many Gracie's NJPW could have tried to bring in, one of the two they picked is best known to MMA fans for doing a Flair Flop when he was knocked out a few months ago.

[tim]

re: The interference in Ibushi/Devitt.

 

Hell, I thought it added to the match. I'm not saying it was good or anything but it was filler for the opening portions of the match and served as a transition into the move-heavy homestretch. If the interference wasn't there instead we'd probably get the kind of mat wrestling, limb work, meandering and directionless middle half that a lot of juniors matches are characterized by -- and that stuff done by Ibushi and Devitt. Gimmicky interference sounds a lot better to me than that. It may be no good from an 'artistic' perspective but I kind of feel like it's a "worst thing other than the alternative" type of deal.

[Loss]

But even judged on the standards of good cheating and outside interference it had its flaws. Positioning the referee properly is sort of attempted, but not really done all that well.

[Dylan Waco]

Tenzan/Honma/BUSHI/Captain NJ vs. Liger/Nakanishi/Super Strong Machine/Yohei Komatsu

 

I actually thought this was pretty good. I wouldn't tell anyone to go run off and watch it, or present it as a hidden gem, but Komatsu was far better here than he was in the heavily praised singles opener he had from the last iPPV. Here he actually sold, worked at different speeds, timed his comebacks well, et. I actually liked the entire vibe with him in this, as it came across as in ring Japanese wrestling dojo ritual starting with his teammates literally throwing him to the lions, and proceeding from there with him constantly winding up in a position to get his ass beat no matter what he did well. Sure he wasn't washing Liger's balls and Sasaki wasn't on hand to kill anyone, but other than that it fit the mold. The worst part of this was Nakanishi who's offense looked terrible, and the Honma headbutt which had good form but completely missed the target. The finish actually played off of the young lion staple/finish of the 12/23 match Komatsu was in, so I liked that too.

 

Young Bucks vs. Time Splitters vs. Forever Hooligans vs. TAKA Michinoku/Taichi

 

I admit I loved the Back To The Future entrance from the Time Splitters. For mindless spotfests this was fine. Yeah this is a style I have little use for for the most part, but I've seen far worse matches within the style than this. I actually kind of liked the Young Bucks sneak attack, and the ECWesque dive train that started with two people nearly dying on a suplex over the top gone wrong was kind of entertaining. Honestly if matches like this are going to exist I would prefer they not even have the formalities of opening "feeling each other" work, so that part of the match could have been chucked out, but generally a multi-man or multi-team match worked this way is going to be far better than one on one where the no selling and just getting shit in, to get shit in, aspects become almost impossible to disguise. This wasn't any good, but I didn't hate it either.

 

Davey Boy Smith Jr./Lance Archer vs. Karl Anderson/Doc Gallows

 

The first half was this okay, but it was a match that got worse and worse. I really hate Karl Anderson at this point. Even when he doing things are theoretically okay, they just don't look right. And that ace crusher variation is shit. I thought Gallows looked fine in this, but it really is a huge waste of him to saddle him with Anderson, I'd match rather he be teaming with Tonga or working singles. Anyway, the front end of this with the heat section on Harry Smith was okay, but shortly after Archer tagged in this morphed into back and fourth, low impact, uninteresting wrestling.

 

Rob Conway vs. Satoshi Kojima

 

Okay match. I love Bruce Tharpe's Col Robert Parker tribute gimmick so I enjoyed all of his overacting and ridiculous antics. People were talking this up like Kojima really busted his ass, but I thought he looked really tired at points in this. I did think his big spots were well timed, but I didn't think it was a particularly good performance from him. My favorite moments were probably Conway trolling Tenzan with Mongolian chops and Kojima's finishing lariat. Actually the best part about this was how hyped Kojima was to be posing with Race post-match.

 

Nagata/Sakuraba vs. Daniel and Rolles Gracie

 

Not good. I thought Nagata was unbelievably awful in this. The shoving exchange he had with one of these guys was just about the most unintentionally comical thing I've ever seen in a wrestling match, his selling was just overworked dog shit, his attempts to work exchanges pathetic. I didn't see anything exciting out of Sakuraba either, but I didn't think he embarrassed himself the way Nagata did. I didn't expect much out of this, and it wasn't as bad as some or saying, but it was easily the worst match up to this point on the show.

 

Muta/Yano vs. Suzuki/Benjamin

 

Man this was a chore to get through. It wasn't even that bad a match, but it's sad watching Muta who is barely able to walk, Benjamin is the shits, and the fact that Suzuki has been wasted on this Yano feud just pisses me off. As a match I actually thought it was put together fairly well, and they did a reasonable job disguising the short comings of people, but it's a match that was always going to have a stupid finish and was never going to appeal to me.

 

Makabe vs. Fale

 

For a match that was sold as the "out of control brawl of the show," with Makabe supposedly scouting the Dome and surrounding areas for potential advantages in street fight, this was remarkably tame and at times incredibly tedious. The first third or so of this I thought was really uninteresting, and almost boring. It wasn't helped by how bad some of Makabe's punches looked. People might think striking is overemphasized by some of us, but in a street fightish atmosphere you'd better know how to throw hands and there were some shots in here where he looked clueless. Having said that I did think this got better as it went along. After the missed knee drop off the top, they did a decent job setting up the big spots, including some teases that I thought worked well (I thought the tease of the table dive was a strong spot). Fale took a nice bump on the table powerbomb, and I did like the finish of this too. I actually thought this slowly morphed into a pretty decent match, but I have to admit that I spent a lot of this cursing NJPW for leaving Ishii off of a show, when he would have had a better match with either of these guys than they had with each other.

 

Shibata vs. Goto

 

I was all prepared to hate this after hearing about the dueling one count stuff, so I was fairly surprised when this started off with a real heat section, Goto working as a true undergo and Shibata as a true asskicker. They had just about hooked me in....and then we got the back drop driver contest, the dueling one counts I was dreading and the uber-staged double knockdown and man did that take me almost completely out of this. I understand those are staples of the Japanese scene to one degree or another, but it's not a norm I'm ever going to being able to enjoy on any level. Then they went into the sequence with the weird overhead "breaker" moves (not clue what else to call them) and those just felt really out of place in this match to me. I can enjoy a good shoot headbutt, but by the time they had gone to that I pretty much had no fucks left to give. I guess this was a nice return win for Goto, but the way this was worked they made me not care.

 

Devitt vs. Ibushi

 

At this point the Bullet Club gimmick just sort of makes me laugh because if any other company on earth were running this interference stuff as a theme of matches it would be universally panned and loathed, but for some reason there are a lot of people who like it in New Japan. I thought it was funny how Devitt kept avoiding real contact on Ibushi's dropkicks so this match had that. Actually this had the promise of being decent during the initial heat section, even with all the Bullet Club b.s., but that immediately went out of the window because Ibushi really hates to sell. The guy took a half dozen insane bumps here, but they really went nowhere at all and the only thing enjoyable about Devitt was his get up. Not a fan.

 

Okada vs. Naito

 

This was better than I expected. I don't hate Okada, but I really don't care about him either. Naito has been pretty bad since his return, though he was good enough in the 12/23 tag match and Masato Tanaka forced him to sell some in their matches. Still on paper the idea of these two going thirty minutes sounded pretty nightmarish, and on scale I thought this was pretty good. Naito has definitely gotten better with his pacing and selling. The guy is still not great at either, and at times not good at either, but it's not distractingly terrible like it was during the G1 either. I thought it was a smart move to stay away from limb work here as it didn't expose him on that front, and instead it allowed them to work an almost WWEish main event, with each guy getting big runs of offense. In that sense I thought this was fairly well put together as none of the transitions felt out of place, and though this was a back and fourth match, it was a back and fourth match based on real momentum swings. Having said that I thought the momentum too many times and this really seemed needlessly long. The big spot with Naito's submission probably worked well in real time, but knowing the match still had ten more minutes I was left thinking "what the fuck, why?" Some of the spots in this were cuter than I would like, but generally speaking this came across like two guys pissed that they were demoted from the main event, who were going out to prove that was a mistake. This might have been my favorite NJPW main event match, involving two clear NJPW main eventers, since the resurgence, which is one way of saying I liked it well enough, but didn't love it.

 

Nakamura vs. Tanahashi

 

I didn't hate this, but I don't think you could ever convince me to watch it a second time. The idea of dueling body part work was there, and I am a mark for that, but the execution was just completely off. One of my big criticisms of the Okada v. Tanahashi Invasion Attack match everyone fawns over is that the arm work is there, and Okada does sell, but he still uses his arm for the overwhelming majority of his offense and it was really hard for me to get past that. Here Nakamura's leg gets worked over. I liked the set up for it, I like Nakamura more than any other NJPW main event guys, and I liked aspects of the way they built the leg work, but virtually every offensive move Nakamura did in this match was with his legs. Worse yet, he showed much less weakness in the leg, than Okada did in the aforementioned Invasion Attack match. This also felt way more "your turn, my turn" than the previous match did, though it may have seemed that way in part because of the way the offensive spots were worked. I did like the way the finish was done here with the cloverleaf spots, and shortly after that Nakamura getting his head taken off with a cross body, but I didn't think this was a strong showing for Nakamura, and Tanahashi didn't do anything in this match that jumped out at me either.

 

Overall Thoughts

 

The show was long as fuck and felt long as fuck. Last years show had the better best match (Nakamura v. Sakuraba), but other than that I thought they were reasonably comparable in terms of quality, this show being a bit worse. I thought the main event of the 12/23 ppv was easily better than any match on this show, and I liked the 12/21 ppv they did a lot better than this one (though that was admittedly helped by the novelty of it). There were some really cool entrances to be sure, but when the "pre-show" match was either my second or third favorite match on the show it is a disappointment no matter what my expectations were coming in. I'm really glad I didn't fork over cash for this show like I originally planned to.

[ohtani's jacket]

Okada/Naito was all right. The only thing I have to compare it to is the Tanahashi/Naito G-1 final, which I thought was a better match, but Tanahashi's a much more experienced worker than Okada, and leading Naito through a main event level Dome Show match was challenging for Okada. It was a bit messy, but they managed to pull off the real main event of the night.

[rzombie1988]

Most of the European fans suck Devitt's dick so hard just because he is Irish and likes to mess around on twitter. He's terribly overrated and really no different than your indy geeks of the world and such.

[Robert S]

The Young Bucks vs KUSHIDA & Alex Shelly vs TAKA Michinoku & Taichi vs Rocky Romero & Alex Koslov

 

(...) The multi-man suplex spot caused a part of me to die. Was that invented in this match? Is that something that has been copied? If so, I'm not sure I can live anymore. (...)

That's actually a pretty common spot, at least in lucharesu. In Toryumon this spot happened in almost every multi-man tag team match. Though I agree with you that this is a bad spot (unless it is filled with some comedy like partners lining up on the wrong side of the chain).

[JazeUSA]

Okada was the mvp in NJPW for 2013 imo, also Devitt is kinda like a modern era late 80's early 90's Jushin Liger as far as being over & match quality, the deal they have him doing now really stinks tho, he was FAR better when he just worked as a normal single, he has won the super jrs twice, Im a fan personally. I have iso's of the show & I am planning to watch it this week when my schedule permits, *** 1/4 being the best match Im not sure I should make this show my priority.

[Loss]

Well, that was the only one I listed a star rating for, but Okada/Naito was better than that. I'd put that one at ****1/2 actually.

[JazeUSA]

Well, that was the only one I listed a star rating for, but Okada/Naito was better than that. I'd put that one at ****1/2 actually.

Great! I may be wrong but I think he just had a match actually get 5 stars on a December show, but I havent seen it as of yet, I have it coming in

[rovert]

Most of the European fans suck Devitt's dick so hard just because he is Irish and likes to mess around on twitter. He's terribly overrated and really no different than your indy geeks of the world and such.

What a terrible opinion considering how well respected he is in the industry.

[Matt D]

It would probably be more productive if someone other than you made that point though.

[Loss]

Regardless of the point's accuracy, I can't tell you how much I hate it when dudes try to be macho and talk about "sucking dick" as praising and being "on someone's dick" as being a fan. It's a word choice that comes across as sexist or homophobic, although I don't think that's the intent most of the time. I'm not saying this to ban people from using the phrase. Say what you want. I'm just letting you know how I think it sounds.

[shawmic]

Most of the European fans suck Devitt's dick so hard just because he is Irish and likes to mess around on twitter. He's terribly overrated and really no different than your indy geeks of the world and such.

What a terrible opinion considering how well respected he is in the industry.

 

Can you elaborate on this? Some kind of proof to back this up? Who exactly respects him in the industry?

 

Or even better yet, tell us why YOU like him and what makes him a great worker (other than being funny on Twitter). You get riled up any time someone on this board dislikes a NJPW show or wrestler, but you never add anything other than that other people's opinions who you respect disagree so we must be wrong. Do you have your own opinion? Or do you just go by what your friends tell you?

 

Not trolling here, seriously interested in hearing more about this.

 

Only person I ever hear outside of the Observer message board talking up Devitt is Court Bauer and given what an idiot he proves himself to be every week on his podcast he's not someone I'd point to for validation here.

 

Personally, Devitt is right there with Marufuji as my least favorite workers on the planet. He may be a riot on Twitter but I don't care about that when I watch him wrestle. Ditch, a well respected Puro expert in the message board industry, summed it up best: "Prince Devitt's countless junior title matches lack anything resembling story, intensity, or struggle. They aren't as "epic" as Angle and Davey Richards standard fare, but the flaws are the same."

[rovert]

It would probably be more productive if someone other than you made that point though.

Why? It is a silly point. People liked him when he was a babyface and would "thank you" everyone on Twitter individually for their well wishes after coming home after each Japan tour.

 

I've seen it at first hand how respected he is by WWE and TNA talents. Not only as a Wrestler but as a self made man. That was 3-4 years ago before his career took off properly this year. Now given his position with New Japan if anyone sucks his dick so hard it is fellow wrestlers trying to get booked over there.

 

Regardless of the point's accuracy, I can't tell you how much I hate it when dudes try to be macho and talk about "sucking dick" as praising and being "on someone's dick" as being a fan. It's a word choice that comes across as sexist or homophobic, although I don't think that's the intent most of the time. I'm not saying this to ban people from using the phrase. Say what you want. I'm just letting you know how I think it sounds.

The "so hard" part is what got me. Amazing piece of extra detail.

 

Can you elaborate on this? Some kind of proof to back this up? Who exactly respects him in the industry?

 

Not trolling here, seriously interested in hearing more about this.

 

Only person I ever hear outside of the Observer message board talking up Devitt is Court Bauer and given what an idiot he proves himself to be every week on his podcast he's not someone I'd point to for validation here.

 

Personally, Devitt is right there with Marufuji as my least favorite workers on the planet. He may be a riot on Twitter but I don't care about that when I watch him wrestle. Ditch, a well respected Puro expert in the message board industry, summed it up best: "Prince Devitt's countless junior title matches lack anything resembling story, intensity, or struggle. They aren't as "epic" as Angle and Davey Richards standard fare, but the flaws are the same."

You must live in a bit of a bubble if you've only heard that limited amount of praise. Everyone from Daniel Bryan to CM Punk to William Regal have all spoke highly of him. He is a favourite of your Tyson Kidds, Curt Hawkins and most indy names too.

[rzombie1988]

Regardless of the point's accuracy, I can't tell you how much I hate it when dudes try to be macho and talk about "sucking dick" as praising and being "on someone's dick" as being a fan. It's a word choice that comes across as sexist or homophobic, although I don't think that's the intent most of the time. I'm not saying this to ban people from using the phrase. Say what you want. I'm just letting you know how I think it sounds.

Change sucking dick to kissing butt, still homophobic/macho?

[ButchReedMark]

Licking minge?

[rzombie1988]

Devitt to me hasn't shown anything truly special. His heavy dropkick and interference based offense is annoying and I think he is switchable. Could Shelly, KUSHIDA or Ibushi be inserted into his matches and produce similar or better results? Definitely. Ibushi would be much better, Shelly can work much better than he usually gets the time or vehicle to and KUSHIDA has the fire Devitt doesn't while having equally annoying offense. NJPW could lose him and lose absolutely nothing.

 

I don't think he is awful but he's not half of what he is pimped to be. He's just another flippy who made the right connections and is in fantastic shape. He's not a great seller, he's not great at working smart and he has a bad habit of repeating moves.

 

I don't really use twitter and don't think it means squat considering the audience he is trying to hit doesn't speak much English. It would be like if Cesaro was cutting great promo's in German in the WWE. Might be good but doesn't bring in any cash in the US.

 

Punk, Dragon and Regal may love him but I don't. Workers hated Kumiko Maekawa and I liked her.

[Matt D]

Overcompensating in a terribly pandering way due to your geographically driven feelings of insignificance?