pol Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 I think Punk post-pipebomb promo could've been the start of something big. So could Daniel Bryan in the the lead up to, during and after Mania. Both of those saw a level of mainstream popcultural buzz far beyond what wrestling usually sees these days. Both fizzled when WWE dropped the ball. I think Dean Ambrose could be one hot angle away from the same thing. I'm not talking Attitude Era-esque boom in any of these cases, but a significant increase in interest. It's worth bearing in mind that WWE's problem hasn't so much been attracting people to the Network - it's been retaining them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Liska Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 I think Dave really nailed it with this line, "Long-term, the key is that they have contradicting priorities. They have to create tons of free content for their rights fees revenues, but in creating so much free content, it lessens interest in more content, particularly with PPVs feeling less important except the big 2-3. " There's a cap to how many people are willing to keep up with WWE' countless hours of prime-time programming while still wanting to spend $10 to watch Nitros or documentaries on older stuff. Most people aren't sick like us. This thing had a chance if they were able to enforce the 6-month commitment for people that wanted to see Mania or Rumble. Without that working? I'm not sure it would have been a big money-maker during the Attitude Era. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 It's not that there's a magic bullet of content that would have increased subs by itself, it's just by not adding much of anything at all you give the impression that WWE is losing interest and that won't encourage anyone to sign up. Problem is, there is currently nobody being paid by WWE right now that is good enough to lead or start a real boom. I actually disagree with this, strongly. There are tons of guys on the main roster or NXT I could see either starting or being a key player in a boom period. Unfortunately most of the main roster guys have been cut off at the knees by start-stop pushes and handicapped by not being able to get themselves over by being forced to recite dialog that would make a soap opera actor roll their eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillThompson Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 I've said from the beginning that signing new TV deals was a mistake. They should have made the Network the one stop shop for all of their content. That would make it a must for any WWE fan, and until they go that route the numbers will stay around where they are. The other stuff we've discussed ad nauseum. It's not that old content will drive new subscriptions, but they need a diversified content library to keep people happy and coming back. They should be churning out oodles of "new" old content to support their original programming. But they aren't and thus the Network feels like a service that is stagnant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigelow34 Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 While I don't think the archived footage is the huge draw, it is certainly a huge part of why they hemorrhaged so many subscribers. They need to take advantage of November being free by going balls out updating the archive. The biggest bucket of footage I see people bitching out is the Attitude Era. So, put all Nitros, Raws, Thunders & SDs through the Invasion up to start the month. Satiate the hardcore old school fans by dumping in a territory in full. Plan two new documentaries with fresh footage, similar to Daniel Bryan's WM Journey, The Birth of the Shield and The Warrior documentary... And then... have a kick ass Survivor Series. Will this cure everything? No way. But it will build up some good will and maybe lure back those that got pissed they couldn't watch the full season of 2000 Raw and walked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 I do think they need more 80s nostalgia. More Macho Man and Ultimate Warrior and Hogan. Lots more Hogan. They're maybe targeting the wrong boom period? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Liska Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 They're going to be getting $235 million in TV rights in 2018. You can't turn that down. They could have just cancelled PPVs altogether and been fine with all of that money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillThompson Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 They're going to be getting $235 million in TV rights in 2018. You can't turn that down. They could have just cancelled PPVs altogether and been fine with all of that money. You can turn that down if you want the Network to succeed. It was never a venture that would bring profits instantly, and all forecasts point to streaming and top box sets being the way that the majority of consumers take in their media within the next five years. Putting the TV on the Network would have paid off more long term than the short term gain from those TV deals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 I think part of the people who unsubscribed were upset with 80's stuff. I don't think a huge dump is needed . Though some consistency is needed.They need to appeal to a wide audience. They need options.Eventually it will get better. They have a lot of content on the network. They give us the ppv's. They need rhyme and reason and variety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 It also can't be understated enough that they more or less promised the entire video library would be up at launch or shortly after, only to nearly pull a hamstring walking that back. I know we'd all like the complete runs of all the 80s territories they own, but it's completely ri-god-damn-diculous they don't have any TV from their biggest periods (Attitude Era or 99-01) other than a handful of Raws. It's simply insane that people need to go to YouTube to find that stuff. Bryan mentions it all the time yet Dave dismisses it as a marketing strategy to not give everything away at once. Well now that they lose as many people they sign up, it may be time to stop holding back and go all in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 They're going to be getting $235 million in TV rights in 2018. You can't turn that down. They could have just cancelled PPVs altogether and been fine with all of that money. You can turn that down if you want the Network to succeed. It was never a venture that would bring profits instantly, and all forecasts point to streaming and top box sets being the way that the majority of consumers take in their media within the next five years. Putting the TV on the Network would have paid off more long term than the short term gain from those TV deals. Bill you're idea is insane. You're putting wrestling in a complete bubble and killing it's growth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 What WWE is doing isn't working much better to be fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 You're also going all in on your company. If you can only get the WWE on their network. Don't get the numbers. You have killed your company. Scenario 2. To fill the wrestling void on TV another company takes the spot. Scenario 3 is you make it happen , but there is no growth in the product. 30 years from now the only people who are fans are people who's parents were fans and had the network. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Yea, they might have more subscribers right now if they had decided to put all their TV on the Network, but then there is almost no way to grow the audience and it'll be a continual slide down hill as people drop off and quit subscribing for any number of reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pantherwagner Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 While I don't think the archived footage is the huge draw, it is certainly a huge part of why they hemorrhaged so many subscribers. They need to take advantage of November being free by going balls out updating the archive. The biggest bucket of footage I see people bitching out is the Attitude Era. So, put all Nitros, Raws, Thunders & SDs through the Invasion up to start the month. Satiate the hardcore old school fans by dumping in a territory in full. Plan two new documentaries with fresh footage, similar to Daniel Bryan's WM Journey, The Birth of the Shield and The Warrior documentary... And then... have a kick ass Survivor Series. Will this cure everything? No way. But it will build up some good will and maybe lure back those that got pissed they couldn't watch the full season of 2000 Raw and walked. I like this post, but like Shoe, I don't even think a territory dump is needed. Just use whatever's already available. Uploading the whole Nitro and Thunder, and SD/Raw up to WCW's death, would pacify a portion of people complaining about that footage not being there. Upload a decent portion of MSG shows. Pick up the pace with ECW and WCCW. Improve communication. If show X is missing send an announcement on twitter saying that the tape is missing or damaged, you may even crowdsource a mint copy of some of those shows. If you even want to go the extra mile upload some AWA PPV's/Supershows. I am saying AWA because they have had that footage forever. I'm sure the shelf life of the Mid South DVD is done and that's as ready to go as anything they have. That should be enough to get some people back and stop some people from quitting. The rest you nailed it: put on a great SS, upload a new documentary or two, and hook in some of the new fans trying it out. Oh yeah and put a stop on account sharing. Sometimes your most hardcore fans are the cheapest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillThompson Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 They're going to be getting $235 million in TV rights in 2018. You can't turn that down. They could have just cancelled PPVs altogether and been fine with all of that money. You can turn that down if you want the Network to succeed. It was never a venture that would bring profits instantly, and all forecasts point to streaming and top box sets being the way that the majority of consumers take in their media within the next five years. Putting the TV on the Network would have paid off more long term than the short term gain from those TV deals. Bill you're idea is insane. You're putting wrestling in a complete bubble and killing it's growth. Not a bubble, simply preparing for the future. TV is on its way out, every analyst supports this. Tying your company into TV simply means that you won't be ready when the change starts. If a boom happens it will happen, but I think people are deluding themselves if they think that boom has to come from free TV. In this day and age it will come from something like YouTube or DailyMotion, not an episode of Raw on the USA Network. WWE needs to go all in on their Network, make it the place for WWE, and the home for fans who want to follow the product. They can filter out content to YouTube, DailyMotion, and their website, but they are hindering the future of their business model by still relying on free TV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 On a note no one has touched on, I can't believe they haven't done anything to make it harder to rip stuff off of the site. I still think they should have tried to come up with a system like movie studios do now where there is a unique identifier to each theater so they can track if a whole bunch of bootlegs are coming from one place. I don't think it's impossible for them to have a system that could do the same thing with individual accounts and pop the people who immediately go and upload the latest show from The Network onto torrent sites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Bill I buy the argument that the future is in streaming and digital means. Though the right now the WWE isn't ready to go all in on the network and not having t.v. I think you could kill the company dead right now if you do what you suggest. I mean MLB isn't going all in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Has piracy been an issue? If anything the Network probably helped curb piracy of PPVs by not expecting people to shell out $55 to watch a B show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Yes, piracy it still an issue. A lot people who were used to downloading the PPVs an hour after it was over weren't going to pay for anything, like ever. And now with The Network it makes it a lot easier to get a version in good video quality a lot faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Apparently closed captioning has been a big obstacle to uploading more content. They are probably paying a third party out the wazoo to perform that service, so with budget cuts comes less content. And they probably received a legal opinion from someone in the company at some point that not having closed captions on everything is a violation of the Americans With Disabilities Act. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pantherwagner Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Two questions: 1) Can't they do like other services do and upload stuff first and CC it later? 2) Didn't WWE Classics on Demand already feature CC's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMJ Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 I forget where I read it, but the President of Netflix (or whatever) was asked about account sharing and piracy and said that he didn't regard it as a problem because the value of Netflix outweighed the desire to pirate their shows, like House of Cards, Arrested Development, etc. I think in the same interview he said that Netflix doesn't actively pursue "account sharers." I think the WWE has even less to worry about. I know a number of fans who downloaded the PPVs after they happened and watched them last year...but when the Network began, they got legit accounts and love the service and are more than happy to pay $10 a month. Those fans who are still pirating will pirate no matter what - the WWE needs to say "fuck em'" for now and, in a weird way, actually just ignore them and hope their fandom grows to the point that they don't want to risk missing the next show. Is it really THAT much easier to pirate from the Network than it was from PPV? To the point that this should even be on their priority list? I kinda find that hard to believe as, in my experience, the same folks I know who hadn't paid for a PPV in years, were the first ones to sign up. I know that I didn't even bother pirating (I just didn't watch PPVs) and the WWE is on track to take $120 from me this year after receiving maybe the same amount over the past 4 years combined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Redman Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 I think saying "here's what they need to do to make the Network succeed..." followed by every single smart fan talking point of the last 5-10 years short of "turn Cena heel" is a pretty amusingly pat/convenient outlook on things. No doubt putting on a better product would help business (duh), but, again, they've been doing good financially for years with pretty much the same quality of product, on average, that they have now. It's the Network that's the problem, not the product, unless the Network model somehow demands a higher quality of product than the PPV model to succeed. It doesn't demand a higher quality of product, but the same quality, and that's exactly why it's not working. People no longer want to pay for PPVs, and they seemingly don't want to pay less for PPVs through a different service. People aren't interested in the PPVs. WWE have been financially stable with the same product, but that ignores the fact that the financial stability comes from basically everything but PPV buys. Bigger TV deals, steady houses, bigger Wrestlemanias and diversifying their revenue streams is what brings home the bacon. Non-Mania PPV buys have been pretty steadily declining in the last decade. I'm sure mookie could draw you a graph. A decade ago WWE have largely lost the ability to sell PPVs other than Manias. So changing to a (perceived) more complicated medium to watch them hasn't seemed to help make a difference to the majority of people who will watch Raw but don't see the value in buying PPVs, because WWE doesn't make them interested enough in PPVs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 I tweeted earlier about putting all the TV on the Network would be what I would do personally but thinking about it what you need to do with your TV is to promote the network heavily by not having the same GOD DAMN matches on your TV that you are having on your major shows. Why should someone watch a Cesaro/Ziggler, Sheamus/Miz, etc when they get those matches every week in some form on RAW & Smackdown. Make your special events actually seem special. The old days you used your TV to build the house shows now use it to build the Network Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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