Matt Farmer Posted March 30, 2014 Report Share Posted March 30, 2014 I think he also made reference to that amount regarding Survivor Series too. Which did about 315,000 buys, one of their lower ppv numbers for that era. Summerslam 88' did around 525,000 which was just shy of what Wrestlemania IV did, so that event was a huge success! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Jiz Posted March 30, 2014 Report Share Posted March 30, 2014 Who published or got access to this document, and how? As a historian, I'm always mindful of forgeries or dates that get messed up. The Max Moon part is one of those oddities that, to at least a good historian, would stand out as a possible fraud. My intuition is that the document is clearly real and came from a reliable source, but as methodology, it'd be comforting to know who actually published this. One thing that stands out is the disparity between undercard numbers and the Dynamite Kid's book. Billington basically said he got $20,000 for his PPV appearances. That's interesting because it seemed like a flat rate that WWF gave to undercard guy. So either his memory is bad, he was lying (not likely), or he was just being general and didn't see the detail of the payoff as that important, OR the payoff structure changed at some point, maybe when the bubble started to burst in Fall 1989. Billington was only a big star from Fall 1985 to 1986. After that, his position would be something akin to Bulldog, Von Erich, and Steamboat in 1991, which is to say a popular figure booked as an undercard act and often placed in six-man tag fillers. Also in wrestling talk, the boys will often continue to call a wrestler his gimmick name even if they no longer use it. Even the office would continue the practice privately. As for the Bulldogs, I would bet they were paid on a higher percentage (by Vince) because they were in demand and could get work elsewhere. Also don't be so confident that the numbers he put in his book are completely accurate. He is a wrestler and rounding up is common. Thanks. Just to clarify, I was under the assumption this was printed no later than a few months after the event, hence Max Moon, who didn't come around until Fall 1992. Someone cleared that up. Just to say on an aside, it's great you're posting here. You're a serious contributor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeCampbell Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 Do guys still get paid if they're not on a PPV? I don't think they are now (as in the last 15 years or so) because they have a guaranteed contract. Remember back then they were only paid if they were on the road. Those were undercard payoffs, which were small paydays because the boys were on the road with the crew but not on that show for whateve reason. They didn't want to punish people because they weren't on the show so they would give them something. In a lot of promotions if someone was out hurt, the promoter would take say $50 out of the gate for every house show and set it aside for the injured wrestler. It sure wasn't what they would have made if on the road, but it was something. I kmow Bill Watts, Crockett, Owen, and McMahon would so this. In JCP, each wrestler volunteered...I forget if it was $25 or $50...out of their weekly paycheck to go to the injured wrestler. They did this for Barry Darsow when he blew out his knee and Magnum TA after his accident for sure. Corny talks about this in the MX book. Everyone volunteered to contribute to Barry, and later, Magnum, and Crockett matched them dollar for dollar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 Do guys still get paid if they're not on a PPV? I don't think they are now (as in the last 15 years or so) because they have a guaranteed contract. Remember back then they were only paid if they were on the road. Those were undercard payoffs, which were small paydays because the boys were on the road with the crew but not on that show for whateve reason. They didn't want to punish people because they weren't on the show so they would give them something. In a lot of promotions if someone was out hurt, the promoter would take say $50 out of the gate for every house show and set it aside for the injured wrestler. It sure wasn't what they would have made if on the road, but it was something. I kmow Bill Watts, Crockett, Owen, and McMahon would so this. In JCP, each wrestler volunteered...I forget if it was $25 or $50...out of their weekly paycheck to go to the injured wrestler. They did this for Barry Darsow when he blew out his knee and Magnum TA after his accident for sure. Corny talks about this in the MX book. Everyone volunteered to contribute to Barry, and later, Magnum, and Crockett matched them dollar for dollar. I knew I forgot a detail. It was every single active wrestler, too, no matter what their standing was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Farmer Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 Yea it was usually referred to as an undercard PO. They go back to the 50's as far I as I know, it was just a method to give the boys not booked or out with an injury something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidebottom Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 What a great find,. I'll sit down soon and go through everything else revealed in the Warrior suits, I imagine it's fascinating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 Was just looking at this again. Absolutely MENTAL that Sheiky baby made over 25k for this show. I swear he had naked pictures of Vince or something, because there's no way he should have been making that sort of money in that sort of spot in 1991. Also Miss Elizabeth made the same as the combined total of the Road Warriors! Also hate the fact that ol' dirt bag Strongbow was making more than double the money of the other agents. He even made more money that Slick for the show. Hate Strongbow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKWildcat Posted March 26, 2015 Report Share Posted March 26, 2015 I would buy a shoot of Parv just running down Strongbow, lol I just read Gary Hart's book and he talks several times about how he hates Strongbow. Throughout the book, Hart's voice was narrating, but when he'd talk about Strongbow, I kept hearing Parv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeCampbell Posted March 26, 2015 Report Share Posted March 26, 2015 Was just looking at this again. Absolutely MENTAL that Sheiky baby made over 25k for this show. I swear he had naked pictures of Vince or something, because there's no way he should have been making that sort of money in that sort of spot in 1991. Why not? He was part of the main event. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkdoc Posted March 26, 2015 Report Share Posted March 26, 2015 yep, what mike said. back then, your pay seemed to be based on your spot on the card and how much your opponents were making. for instance, honky tonk man said that he was making as much money jobbing to jimmy snuka on the C-show tour as he did when he was IC champ. reason being, when snuka initially came back in '89, vince was paying him main-eventer money for whatever reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted March 26, 2015 Report Share Posted March 26, 2015 Was just looking at this again. Absolutely MENTAL that Sheiky baby made over 25k for this show. I swear he had naked pictures of Vince or something, because there's no way he should have been making that sort of money in that sort of spot in 1991. Why not? He was part of the main event. Because he hadn't been a main event star since (if we're being very generous) 1985 at the latest, and he'd spent the last three years as a virtual jobber WCW. Yet Vince "saved" him for the second time and put him in that spot and gave him a huge pay day. There's a story there that hasn't been told, I'm telling ya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted March 26, 2015 Report Share Posted March 26, 2015 If we're to believe the tale, it has been told. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Farmer Posted March 26, 2015 Report Share Posted March 26, 2015 You can say the same for Sgt. Slaughter as well. Not to the same extent as Iron Sheik, but Slaughter spent the last five years or so working independents and some spots with AWA. He wasn't a big deal anywhere in the world except at high school gyms by 1990. But the combination of Slaughter, Adnan and Sheik got over enough to sell a PPV that did over 400,000 buys. There's no difference between taking a jobber like Ray Traylor, leaving him off TV a few month and bringing him in as Big Bubba Rogers then having him and Dusty set a gate record in Pittsburg. Bubba was a jobber the year before! I want to note that in 1991 Summer Slam did almost the same exact number of PPV buys as Wrestle Mania did that year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chief Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 Honestly, I think Vince just has a soft spot for certain guys for reasons we will never fully understand. Look at Regal and how bad he fucked up his first run. Most guys like that would never get more than one chance. WCW ties, not a proven draw in the states, not a typical WWF look, serious drug issues. It's been well documented how much Vince helped him out. Maybe he just thought Sheiky Baby was just a funny guy to have around? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 Sheik had gotten arrested (and given WWF terrible press as a result), was clearly on drugs, in terrible shape, was pretty bad in the ring by 91, and a poor promo to boot. That's one hell of a soft spot. It has made me think that there might be something to the story with Verne and the bribe to break Hogan's leg. Sheik stayed loyal to WWF, and put Hogan over, and it seems like Vince has looked out for him ever since. It's not just the spot on Summerslam 91 either. It's the way WWE has consistently made Iron Sheik out to be a much bigger and more important star than he actually was. If you went by the WWE's version of history, Iron Sheik is like one of the top 5-10 biggest heels in history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 Honestly, I think Vince just has a soft spot for certain guys for reasons we will never fully understand. Yup. Look at Nikolai Volkoff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chief Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 Mick Foley said in his book, and I'm paraphrasing, something about an older guy that Mick didn't think was worth anything that Vince was was paying generously. He mentioned it to Terry Funk and Funk said "Mick, sometimes Vince just likes to be nice." Was it ever confirmed who that was? Seems like that description could fit Sheik. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkdoc Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 yeah it feels like that has to be either sheik or tony atlas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBadMick Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 Sheik had gotten arrested (and given WWF terrible press as a result), was clearly on drugs, in terrible shape, was pretty bad in the ring by 91, and a poor promo to boot. That's one hell of a soft spot. It has made me think that there might be something to the story with Verne and the bribe to break Hogan's leg. Sheik stayed loyal to WWF, and put Hogan over, and it seems like Vince has looked out for him ever since. It's not just the spot on Summerslam 91 either. It's the way WWE has consistently made Iron Sheik out to be a much bigger and more important star than he actually was. If you went by the WWE's version of history, Iron Sheik is like one of the top 5-10 biggest heels in history. Have you listened to any of his shoots? He's absolutely barmy but lovable too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkdoc Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 also i think sheik's inflated role in history is simply a matter of being in the right place at the right time hulk hogan vs. the iron sheik fits people's perception of pro wrestling as a vehicle for simplistic and jingoistic narratives, and that gives it an iconic quality - there's a reason the big match in the wrestler was based on that. i would compare it to the undertaker and the ultimate warrior being two of the most widely recognizable wrestlers even though they weren't often "draws" in any meaningful sense. warrior fit the stereotype of what wrestlers look and act like, and undertaker fit the perception of wrestling as a cartoon. oh, another thing with sheik is that his biggest match happened in NYC. i cannot stress enough how much the US media treats new york as the center of the universe. put it to you this way: in the last 40+ years the new york knicks have won one championship, and there's been like 10 books (maybe an exaggeration but only slightly) written about that one team in that one season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offspring515 Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 Mick Foley said in his book, and I'm paraphrasing, something about an older guy that Mick didn't think was worth anything that Vince was was paying generously. He mentioned it to Terry Funk and Funk said "Mick, sometimes Vince just likes to be nice." Was it ever confirmed who that was? Seems like that description could fit Sheik. It was Terry Gordy as The Executioner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 Maybe it has been mentioned and I missed it, but why does Parv have such nuclear hate toward Strongbow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seej Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 Mick Foley said in his book, and I'm paraphrasing, something about an older guy that Mick didn't think was worth anything that Vince was was paying generously. He mentioned it to Terry Funk and Funk said "Mick, sometimes Vince just likes to be nice." Was it ever confirmed who that was? Seems like that description could fit Sheik. It was Terry Gordy as The Executioner. I think this was after Gordy had his stroke, so he probably wasn't able to do much. I'm guessing Vince brought him in as a favor to Michael Hayes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 Maybe it has been mentioned and I missed it, but why does Parv have such nuclear hate toward Strongbow? Mostly explained here: http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/27817-chief-jay-stongbow/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 oh, another thing with sheik is that his biggest match happened in NYC. i cannot stress enough how much the US media treats new york as the center of the universe. put it to you this way: in the last 40+ years the new york knicks have won one championship, and there's been like 10 books (maybe an exaggeration but only slightly) written about that one team in that one season. Hey, they won twice and they were awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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