Is NXT actually good at creating stars?

[Russellmania]

the problem is simple. WWE is run by TV writers while NXT is run by wrestling guys (HHH, road agents, etc.)

 

Also i think Bo Dallas is the best pure heel they've had in a decade and it's a shame that they're almost certainly going to ruin him.

[Matt Farmer]

Adam Rose has been on TV for two weeks, period. I'd give a guy a bit more time before screaming "Flop" at him. Just stop having Cole dance and say how cool he is, cause THAT'S the kiss of death. And Rusev is being booked properly. He's been working his way up the roster.

And I think Bo can get his deal over because it's based on getting booed. As long as he can get the crowd to boo him, his gimmick is golden. It doesn't matter why they're booing, either. Just so long as people boo and shit on him then he's good.

I agree with your comment, but want to add the moment his vignette debuted he was a flop. This gimmick is a bad gimmick and yells tv for a frew months, then out of the business within a year. For his sake I hope not, but it is a gimmick designed from the get go not to get over.

 

If something is cool, you don't have to say it. In fact older guys for the most part won't get it at first.

[Lee]

NXT seems to be good at making stars for the NXT audience, while WWE seem to be good at calling up said stars and being completely confused when Emma's wacky dance or Adam Rose's entrance doesn't get over in a 10,000 seat building with very few Network subscribers in it.

[donsem43]

Another difference is that if someone is on TV for NXT, there's a reason for that person to be there. There are some weeks that the WWE struggles to find reasons for their main-eventers to show up on Raw, much less the rest of the roster.

[Mad Dog]

Rose kind of got screwed. He got like 6 weeks to figure that gimmick out before they threw him on WWE tv.

[SomethingSavage]

Ehh. Not a whole lot to figure out, frankly. Tyler Breeze pretty much just had to watch Zoolander, and he was all set. Kruger just needed to watch Sarah Marshall and Get Him To The Greek. Boom. Done deal. He's practically Aldous Snow, with a cast of carnies to help carry the act.

 

I've actually enjoyed both his TV spots from the UK tour. It's great to hear a crowd giving him such a strong reception for a change. Hopefully that carries over back to the States. He's far from a favorite of mine or anything, but yeah. The whole gimmick was JUST thrust onto him before he was called up, after lingering for what feels like FOREVER down in development with different variations of the same shtick.

 

Gotta say though - whether this Adam Rose character flops or not, it was worth a shot. Plus it's still a lot better than that Kraven the Hunter junk he was doing in NXT before.

[The Chief]

I'll take this crop over the "throw shit against the wall and see what sticks" approach any day. I'm talking about Gavin Spears, Ryan Braddock, Gunner Scott, the Major Brothers, Ricky Ortiz, etc.

 

Even if things don't work out for certain guys now, at least there is EFFORT put into it. I haven't had that feeling about new guys in years.

[SomethingSavage]

Oh yeah. There's definitely been a huge upgrade in terms of their strategy. Everything feels thought-out and well-planned. Like you said, at least there's a clear & obvious EFFORT going into these acts. Characters are sleeker, clearly defined, and streamlined to be something specific. And there's a great variety among all of them as well. They've done a tremendous job in spotlighting and featuring each individual's strengths, for the most part.

 

Also, it feels like there's more freedom of expression and input from the workers themselves. Not sure how much of that comes through exactly, but I'm inclined to believe the reports about guys like Bray, Ambrose, etc. having at least a little "say" in how their personalities come across.

 

Honestly, it all has to start with the recruiting efforts. And they've really signed the cream of the crop over the past few years. It seemed to begin with Bryan, and they've essentially grabbed up every TOP indie prospect ever since. A few have slipped through the cracks maybe, but for the most part? They're signing up the best talent. And they aren't pounding square pegs into round holes, like they've notoriously done in the past. They seem to simply take the strengths of these performers & play to them - which just enhances and amplifies the things they're ALREADY good at anyhow.

 

I know a lot of people criticize WWE for making even the most traveled indie guys go through development, but I think it's worked out wonderfully for almost everyone so far. These guys aren't being brainwashed or completely changed as performers down there. They're just being given distinct characters, proper seasoning, and time to familiarize themselves with the WWE system. I see nothing wrong with it, and the results really should speak for themselves.

 

Take Generico for example. The guy was TREMENDOUS enough making the indie rounds. He was freaking phenomenal. No change needed right? Well, sure. But if he hadn't taken off the hood and been handed a mic, how the hell would we ever have known how damn good the guy is as a naturally charismatic, down-to-earth talker? He's a throwback to the original, soft-spoken, genuinely likable babyface. He's got a captivating charm that is really understated and organic. Just seems very natural, but I like it a lot. There's nothing over-the-top, forced, or stereotypical "PRO RASSLIN" about it. Very good stuff that we wouldn't have seen if they'd simply stuck with the routine Generico character.

[Russellmania]

Sami Zayn is like an alternate reality version of Seth Rogen where instead of becoming an actor he quit smoking weed, got in shape and became a wrestler.

[Matt D]

The cool thing about Sami is that he manages to seem like he's in on the joke with the crowd without demeaning the joke, if that makes any sense. He's very good at portraying "Hey, this Tyler Breeze guy is pretty nutty, huh? Is he for real? Is this really happening" without making it seem like "Mattias Clement is sure portraying Tyler Breeze in an entertaining but goofy way, isn't he? He's doing interesting stuff with the writers' material!" I know they're totally different, but someone that I'd point to who connected to the crowd in his promos in a similar way was Sting. You always had the sense of Sting being in a strange and outlandish situation and relating to the crowd, whether he was up against Avalanche and Big Bubba or against the Black Scorpion or what. Obviously, Sami can manage this by just talking to them and not screaming and woo-ing, but that's what it made me think of.

[Bierschwale]

He worked the Europe tour, and has done the last two Middle Eastern tours (though obviously that's because of his heritage). I've been thinking that he is going to get the Paige treatment and show up for a crowd who would KNOW immediately for the huge pop, because doing the Bo/Rose debut promos would be unnecessary for a guy whose gimmick kind of amounts to "a guy with the personalty of a hockey player, but a lot more articulate and intelligent". So would it be the Raw in Montreal on 7/7? That gives him one last round of NXT tapings, AND a chance for Vince to embarrass someone in their hometown.

[Coffey]

Eva Marie & Cameron both proved that it doesn't matter how good you are. On the opposite end of the spectrum, so did Chris Hero/Kassius Ohno. Not just from NXT but in general. WWE march to the beat of their own drum. If they want to use you they can find something for you to do. They just have to want to use you.

 

I do think that NXT is the WWE Developmental league but I don't think it's really about getting better, improving in the ring or getting better at promos. I think it's more about knowing where to look into the camera at all times, hitting your marks & things like that. Yoshi Tatsu can practice his promos & try to work to improve his English all he wants, they're not gonna use him on the main roster again.

 

If WWE like you, they'll bring you up. If they don't, they won't. It seems to be a lot more about politics than it is about talent. You telling me Mojo Rawley deserves time on NXT? Or is it 'cause he's a big, dumb hoss that used to play football? Cause he sure as shit ain't any good.

 

I have no doubt in my mind The Shield got called up 'cause they saw money in Roman Reigns. They slapped him with Ambrose/Rollins cause they're good workers that could protect him in matches. Without Reigns, I don't think Ambrose/Rollins are on the main roster. They've already teased dissension in The Shield a few times but then Reigns has a bad one-on-one performance & suddenly the split is swept under the rug. When The Shield breaks up, sink or swim for Reigns, I bet you can expect to see Rollins with the Justin Gabriel slot after awhile, despite how good he is. I hope I'm wrong but the pessimist in me doesn't think so.

 

Does NXT create stars? No, not really. All they do is trot people out each week to the same crowd, like TNA used to do. Remember Lance Hoyt getting cheers? Eventually the crowd decides who they do or don't like...but even if someone does or doesn't get over with those crowds, WWE pretty much takes whomever they want, whenever they want for any reason...and I don't think that's ever really about talent.

 

Bray Wyatt was called up again, admittedly. So was Bo Dallas. But isn't Rotunda a road agent for WWE? Bo & Wyatt had both been called up before & failed, then got repackaged. How many other guys in NXT get multiple shots like that? Remember fuckin' Manu? You telling me he was good enough to be on RAW, or was it cause he was related to Afa? But Hero wasn't good enough? C'mon. Prolly had more to do with not training like Triple H or something.

 

I'm assuming Paige & Emma got called up because A.J. was leaving? No idea. I know they definitely waited until Paige was 21.

 

I just don't look at NXT like it's a farm system in baseball. I don't think it's about finding the next big stars or the top talent. It feels more like a meat factory where guys at the top can pick someone out, get the WWE machine behind them & then gloat if they succeed or scapegoat them if they fail.

[Tim Evans]

Hero didn't make the main roster cause he never improved. In fact, I thought he got worse after the Regal series. He had some good matches with Harper towards the end but besides that, he seemed not to care. Rollins isn't going to become the next Justin Gabriel cause Rollins actually has Now yo a personality and isn't boring as hell without the 450 like Gabriel is. Now you wanna talk about a guy that shouldn't be getting TV time, that's CJ Parker. He's got a awful gimmick, gets go away heat and isn't that great a wrestler.

[Mini Bennett]

You're kidding yourself if you think improvement isn't a huge part of the developmental system. Its the main objective.

[Matt D]

Hero didn't make the main roster cause he never improved. In fact, I thought he got worse after the Regal series. He had some good matches with Harper towards the end but besides that, he seemed not to care. Rollins isn't going to become the next Justin Gabriel cause Rollins actually has Now yo a personality and isn't boring as hell without the 450 like Gabriel is. Now you wanna talk about a guy that shouldn't be getting TV time, that's CJ Parker. He's got a awful gimmick, gets go away heat and isn't that great a wrestler.

 

I think the main reason he didn't make the roster is that they asked him to do something and he didn't do it. They could have asked him to cut off his pinky or drink more cabbage smoothies. It's WWE. He was a developmental guy.

[broke]

The Adam Rose character would be better suited to be a heel, especially with Rose's mannerisms. The character is too annoying to get over as a face IMHO.

 

They're playing it smart by bringing Rusev along slowly, but Lana steals the spotlight from him every time he's out there. He needs a mouthpiece though.

 

I agree with Coffee re: The shield, but I think Rollins has a far better upside than Justin Gabriel.

[rovert]

They're playing it smart by bringing Rusev along slowly, but Lana steals the spotlight from him every time he's out there. He needs a mouthpiece though.

 

Rusev IS a Lana vehicle. That was honestly the intent since the beginning. WWE loved Lana's speaking and acting since day one.

[W2BTD]

It's way to early to assess the success of NXT or the performance center. There are some early signs that due to the smaller, smarkish Full Sail crowd, some acts are getting over better in the small room than they can on the main roster. Every indie has the charming home town act that 300 people go insane for, but would never work for a broader audience. This is a trap they will have to avoid, and may have already fallen into (Rose).

 

People are raving about the performance center, and obviously it's an impressive facility, but i'm not so sure that is a better environment for up & coming wrestlers than working all over the country, or even the world. I think the performance center is great thing for people like Sami Zayn or Sami Callihan or people who clearly already know how to work and just need to learn "WWE things", like how they want you to do promos, or when it's ok/not ok to look into cameras, or how they want you to convey yourself pre & post match, etc. There are a million subtle nuances that fans don't even notice anymore on a WWE produced television show. The best workers in the world (which Zayn arguably was when he signed) still need to learn these things and master them before they are thrown on TV.

 

But in terms of training wrestlers off the street, such as college football players or models or green indie guys? Jury is out. Sure, it's a cool building with all sorts of great tools, but i'm not sure Bill DeMott & Joey Mercury training you from scratch and never learning anything other than what WWE wants to show you is better than cutting your teeth on the road like has been done forever. The best workers & most over acts in NXT are almost always the good indie workers they sign, and not the "WWE assembly line create-a-wrestler" off the street types.

 

Let's pump the brakes on the performance center & NXT until we have a few years worth of evidence, is all i'm saying.

[W2BTD]

I will say that using people like Norman Smiley, Regal, Del Rey, bringing in Lance Storm, etc, is a good in theory because these are people well versed in many styles. The problem is at the end of the day, it's the WWE Performance Center teaching WWE style. And there will come a day where the entire roster is made up of PC trainees, which could mean a future of an entire roster made up of Darren Young's & Mojo Rawley's & CJ Parker's & whoever else, who only know what WWE showed them, and it could make for a very bland, generic, monotonously sterile working style.

[El-P]

 

They're playing it smart by bringing Rusev along slowly, but Lana steals the spotlight from him every time he's out there. He needs a mouthpiece though.

 

Rusev IS a Lana vehicle. That was honestly the intent since the beginning. WWE loved Lana's speaking and acting ASS since day one.

 

[Bierschwale]

But if they're just going to go the Power Plant route, why even bother bringing in Generico, Callihan, Samuray, Devitt, etc.? Not to mention giving guys like Edwards, Richards, and Steen tryouts.

[rovert]

And there will come a day where the entire roster is made up of PC trainees, which could mean a future of an entire roster made up of Darren Young's & Mojo Rawley's & CJ Parker's & whoever else, who only know what WWE showed them, and it could make for a very bland, generic, monotonously sterile working style.

 

I am with W2BTD on this one. Also it is not just working style either. Of the trained from scratch people WWE is recruiting it is a rather different profile of person than before. Someone who doesn't know or care that much about Wrestling prior who have lots of Degrees, interests and side businesses outside of Wrestling. This may lead to a more dispassionate workforce. The greats have always you have to live and breath the business.

 

Hard to argue that this approach to preferable to some of the poor souls who committed suicide after being released from your OVWs as the invested everything into Wrestling but still you/WWE lose something in that exchange too.

 

But if they're just going to go the Power Plant route, why even bother bringing in Generico, Callihan, Samuray, Devitt, etc.? Not to mention giving guys like Edwards, Richards, and Steen tryouts.

 

The driving force behind those hires are Joey Mercury and William Regal. Regal in particular is effusive about the idea of the NXT talent learning off World travelled wrestlers as NXT talent won't be travelling the World themselves as part of a maturation period. Regal is trying to bring the Japanese or European learning excursion to the Performance Centre.

[rovert]

Ok this sounds really silly but hear me out.

 

The Performance Center has an on site psychologist - who from what I know helps talent deal with incoming trappings of fame and life on the road. The Divas are also under a lot of body pressure so that is dealt with as well.

 

Anyway is having psychologist vetting talent really conductive to the process of developing new stars looking at it coldly/selfishly from the greedy promoter or demanding fan point of view? In the case of flagging another Benoit the answer is an obvious yes. But there has been less pathological cases who drew a lot of match and had great matches.

[W2BTD]

I really, really hate to knock the Performance Center, as I really think there are a ton of great concepts being put into practice down there, but the fact of the matter is that for all of the praise WWE gets for their training system & NXT, currently the best young wrestlers with the most star potential reside in CMLL & Dragon Gate, and it isn't even close.

 

I know very little about CMLL's training so maybe somebody can fill me in. From the best I can tell, they've collected some of the top young talent from around Mexico and featured them in a great tournament to get them over. I have no idea how many of them, if any, are "homegrown", or if that concept even exists in Mexico.

 

Dragon Gate on the other hand has a facility that is probably not all that much unlike the Performance Center, albeit on the fraction of the budget. And to be fair, my primary complaint of WWEs training methods, teaching only one style and one way of doing things, probably applies to Dragon Gate as well due to their unique in ring style. The similarities even go as far as the monthly Dragon Gate "NEX" shows that are held at the training facility, featuring all of the young talent and allowing them to get in extra work in front of crowds.

 

The difference, is nearly every current star on the Dragon Gate roster has gone on a long learning excursion. Tozawa in Texas, Shingo & YAMATO all over the United States, Eita, T-Hawk, & U-T in Mexico, etc. I'm sure Kotoka, Tominaga, Shimizu, etc will be sent off at some point as well.

 

WWE thumbs their nose at the learning excursion, due to arrogance that their way is the only way, and to me that is a fatal flaw of their system. To me it's also why people like Zayn appear to be at an entirely different level than the rest of the people there. Zayn worked & learned how to get over all over the globe. Tyler Breeze will never have a chance to do that. Alexa Bliss will work abroad only if on a future WWE tour. This is a disservice to the talent, and to their own training methods.

 

Maybe they should hire experienced, well traveled veterans to stay & work in NXT permanently. If they wont send people on excursions, bring the excursions to them. Say for instance KENTA. Instead of getting him ready for RAW, leave him down there. Let him work long programs with CJ Parker or whoever. All of the house shows. All of the TV. Every day in the gym. Hire a bunch of these guys as NXT roster mainstays, and pseudo trainers. Why is William Regal not active in the ring on every NXT house show? This is mental. Hire international veterans winding down, throw them a great salary, and leave them in Florida.

[Dylan Waco]

I actually think there is something to the idea of "retiring" veterans to developmental to help out with some of the guys who don't have the full indie/international experience of guys like Zayn. I'm not saying this should be a widespread practice, but with a guy like Regal sitting down there it's probably not a bad idea to have him work some of the local house shows for a variety of reasons. I do like how they seem to be shifting underutilized guys down there in an effort to give them work, and possibly return with a little something behind them, but that's not quite what I mean (nor do I think it's what Joe is talking about).