Titans of Wrestling #28: WWF at Philadelphia Spectrum Feburary 14th 1981

[JerryvonKramer]

http://placetobenation.com/titans-of-wrestling-28-wwf-at-philadelphia-spectrum-february-14th-1981

 

 

Parv, Kelly and Johnny DRAG Pete to the Philadephia Spectrum in 1981 for a 10-match extravaganza!

 

On the docket tonight:

 

Bulldog Brower vs Angelo Gomez

Larry Sharpe vs Steve King

The Great Yatsu vs Frank Savage

Hulk Hogan vs Dominic Denucci

Pedro Morales vs Stan Hansen

Killer Khan vs Rick McGraw

Sgt. Slaughter vs Bob Backlund

The Hangman vs Johnny Rodz

SD Jones vs Baron Mikel Scicluna

Tony Garea & Rick Martel vs Moondogs (Texas Death match)

 

Also on tonight's show:

 

- Pete's protest: the lead analyst refuses to watch half of the card

- Parv introduces the jobber offense count

- Kelly gives Frank Savage a mini-bio

- Johnny tests out a new theorum: if Bruno = Hogan and Bob = Bret, then Pedro = Warrior?

- Plus: randomly the Titans pick their MVP for Wrestlemania 2 and The Kayfabe Memories Mystery Files of SD Jones

 

The PWO-PTBN Podcast Network features great shows you can find right here at Place to Be Nation. By subscribing on iTunes or SoundCloud, you’ll have access to new episodes, bonus content, as well as a complete archive of: Where the Big Boys Play, Titans of Wrestling, Pro-Wrestling Super-Show, Good Will Wrestling, and Wrestling With the Past.

[Johnny Sorrow]

See if you can pick out the awesome Bill Hicks joke I totally stole. First person to name it on twitter @titansowrestlin gets a shout out next show where I'll say whatever you want.

[Dylan Waco]

I am only half way through the show, but two things.

 

1. Every single time you guys mention Dominic, I immediately think of the little boy from Kindergarten Cop, and the climactic scene with the school on fire and the tenth rate mobster dad saying "I'm your father Dominic" or whatever the fuck and/or Arnold's ridiculous pronunciation of Dominic throughout the entire movie. Anyway I've listened to a bunch of the Titans shows, but I have no clue if Johnny have ever done that impression, but if not he needs to.

 

2. Every single time I hear one of these shows I want you to watch Maritimes footage. I can not imagine it going over very well with the panel, but you guys need to see Bobby Bass in his glory. Bobby Bass waiving an American Flag in Sunny War Cloud's face pre-match is the most Titans of Wrestling thing ever done in the 1980s

[Ricky Jackson]

I've had an idea for an all-Canadian show in the back of my mind for a while and it would definitely include a look at the Maritimes

[robertsilva]

I started to follow wrestling in July of 81, so familiar memories will be soon coming via your podcast. And in the spring of 82, my first wrestling idol, Superfly Snuka, will make his WWF debut

[Johnny Sorrow]

Dylan, I'm nothing if not a whore for listener requests. And trying new impressions.

Edit: The Ahnold "daamahnik" is easy, apparently. The challenge is the dopey Dad. I WILL master it and use it.

[Dylan Waco]

I've had an idea for an all-Canadian show in the back of my mind for a while and it would definitely include a look at the Maritimes

 

If you want suggestions for a Canadian grab bag let me know.

 

Pumped for the future of "Dominic" on the show

[SomethingSavage]

Working my way through this show in hour-long chunks, and it's been tremendous. Up to the second hour right now. Good times with the Titans gang as usual.

 

Cool to note that you guys are essentially tracking the evolution of Hogan. And, side by side with the examination of the Bob/Bruno comparisons in your 70's stuff, I hope that is a regular staple of the 80's shows going forward. Hulk really was like this awkward melting pot of all these pre-existing heel habits of the time period. He was part Superstar, part sex symbol, part monster heel... It's just all these traits & qualities lumped into one undefined package for awhile there. And, to me, a lot of the fun in looking back IS in watching these guys as they find their groove, show development, and eventually carve out their own niche.

 

Once Hogan finds the right ingredients and stumbles into his own cocaine-powered promos, he goes from channeling pure Billy Graham and switches gears, He sort of finds himself and the "Hogan promo" quickly becomes its own thing. Curious to see just HOW MUCH of that you guys actually see in his heel stint, if any at all.

 

So yeah. Lots to look forward to, and I'm stoked about that. Meantime? We're getting great dialogue & exchanges anyhow. Pete REALLY brought the energy & excitement in his match breakdowns - ya know, the ones he didn't no-show.

But yeah. Just by listening to the detailed descriptions, you guys had me wanting to kick back & watch the Slaughter/Backlund matches again.

Johnny's Kal-bashing is relentless. He just doesn't let up, and I absolutely love it. Endlessly entertaining stuff.

 

Oh. And everybody piling on Parv and clowning him for the carb-cutting had me cracking up, too. Awesome stuff, guys.

[JerryvonKramer]

Cool to note that you guys are essentially tracking the evolution of Hogan. And, side by side with the examination of the Bob/Bruno comparisons in your 70's stuff, I hope that is a regular staple of the 80's shows going forward. Hulk really was like this awkward melting pot of all these pre-existing heel habits of the time period. He was part Superstar, part sex symbol, part monster heel... It's just all these traits & qualities lumped into one undefined package for awhile there. And, to me, a lot of the fun in looking back IS in watching these guys as they find their groove, show development, and eventually carve out their own niche.

 

Once Hogan finds the right ingredients and stumbles into his own cocaine-powered promos, he goes from channeling pure Billy Graham and switches gears, He sort of finds himself and the "Hogan promo" quickly becomes its own thing. Curious to see just HOW MUCH of that you guys actually see in his heel stint, if any at all.

Yeah this is a really good point on the early Hogan. Like I said, I think the Rocky 3 gig really put the wind in his sails and it allowed him to be much cockier. We've gone from him in 79 letting Blassie do the talking and just posing to him being a proper dick heel with charisma here in 1981, albeit through channeling Graham.

 

Also like I said on the show though, I think Vince Sr was often too conservative in his booking and too wedded to his formula. For some reason the guy seems impervious to criticism because he made money. Granted, the formula was successful and it did make him money, but I think he could have been even more successful and made even more money if he'd done a few things a bit differently.

 

Hogan is a case in point. Let's try to forget about what he would become for a second and just look at where he was in 81. He was clearly a star in the making and stands out from a lot of the other guys on the roster. But Vince Sr didn't have a lot for him to do. Shot with Backlund, feud with Andre. What now for a heel in the WWF? Errrr .... Another match with Andre? I'd go as far as to saw that Vince Sr. squandered Hogan.

 

What happened then? Vince Sr. didn't want him doing the Rocky III scene and fired him.

 

EVERYONE talking about Verne Gagne losing Hogan to Vince Jr. NOONE talks about Vince Sr losing Hogan to Verne. In many ways, Vince Sr. comes across as being even more rigid and set in ways than Gagne.

[thebrainfollower]

I think Vince Sr. wasn't a huge fan of improvising. Superstar was booked for ten months and got ten months. Hogan was brought in to have a few matches with Backlund and then an Andre feud. The only thing left would have been an Backlund MSG series where Bob goes over clean and Hogan does what virtually every other heel does, which is depart the territory. Hogan leaving here and then coming back a little under 3 years later as a conquering hero has more impact than if Hogan had stayed around in the mid card for another year, turned face, and then waited a year and a half to win the title.

 

The other option is a face turn but that didn't happen all that often in that era. Off the top of my head I can only think of Jimmy Snuka and that seemed like more of a Vince Jr. thing. Gorilla was turned but he was buying into the promotion and so had to hang around, and wasn't really going to ever just be a jobber like the Baron.

 

On to the show in general, Johnny was on fire here with the Mole Man and Plan Nine both getting shout outs. And Plan Nine is far from the worst movie ever. Check out the Creeping Terror, Manos - The Hands of Fate or The Beast of Yucca Flats and that will quickly dispel the Medved brothers' claim.

[JerryvonKramer]

Brain, Pat Patterson turned of course. But you are right in general that in the Vince Sr mould, there are very limited options for heels. It's have your run and leave or turn.

 

Guess I'm saying Vince Sr, with more imagination, might have made something of Hogan then and there, but he didn't.

[Ricky Jackson]

Vince Sr got more out of Hogan than most heels in the territory at the time. Hogan's run was from November 79 to April 81, longer than Patera (who was on another level from the other heels of course), the Samoans, Duncum, Valentine, and others. He had a run with Bob in Philly and a long feud with Andre when Andre was a huge drawing card and arguably at the peak of his stardom.

 

I'm sure Vince Sr was well aware that Hogan was a potential superstar. I'm also pretty sure the story of Hogan being fired for the Rocky III role is total bullshit. They pushed his role in the movie on the last Philly show and probably others. I don't think they would've done that if they were upset with him getting the part.

 

Anyway, yes Vince Sr could have turned Hogan, but he could have turned other heels, like Patera, and didn't. They moved on to the next territory and someone fresh was brought in. The machine kept on rolling.

[thebrainfollower]

Forgot about the Pat turn. I wonder if even then they were putting him in to be part of the creative team and that's why he was turned much like Gorilla a decade or more earlier.

[thebrainfollower]

Did your dad fire Hogan for Rocky III is on my list of questions I want to and will never get to ask Vince.

[JerryvonKramer]

Kelly - granted, Hogan got a longer run than 90% of heels at that time, but I still think Vince Sr. failed to capitalize on that potential or push Hogan on to the extent he MIGHT have.

 

i know they didn't run many angles, but how about giving Backlund a proper storyline with Hogan to build on? Rather than the "3 and done".

 

While we're on the topic, I also think Vince Sr failed to capitalise on the star he'd created in Larry Zbysko. The big storyline with Bruno, as good as it was,established Larry as a maineventer and then ... he had nothing left for him to do and he left. So now Georgia gets a top heel to utilise and probably with Vince Sr's full blessing.

 

I guess I don't understand why the criticisms levelled at Verne are not also levelled at Vince Sr -- the only difference is that Vince Sr never had Jr to contend with. If he'd had any competition, it would have been like a knife through hot butter.

[SomethingSavage]

Great discussion here. Hoping some of it carries over into the audio eventually, as it MAY be something worth revisiting as Hogan progresses, Backlund's momentum regresses, and the likes of Snuka & Muraco gain exposure.

 

Not that it's an overwhelming factor or anything, but something to consider with McMahon is that, yeah. History is written by the winners. And so there will be this sort of bias towards the last man (territory, kingdom, whatever) standing.

 

As far as Vince Sr. the person goes, he's generally spoken about and regarded as a "man of his word." That's entirely different from the consensus on Verne, who's often described as being out of touch. He didn't want to go modern. He didn't want to update the business model or his practices. He's talked about as if he was stubborn for all the WRONG reasons.

 

Vince Sr. was stubborn for the sake of keeping his word and honoring his promises. If he had committed to running with Backlund, then it was as if he felt absolutely obligated to go that way - come hell or high water.

 

Whether that stark difference between Vince Sr. and Verne is wholly true or only partly based in reality, we don't know. It's just word of mouth from cohorts, former employees, etc. But that's the impression I get on both men, gathering from all the interviews and stories out there.

 

Besides all that though, this was a different era. The ultimate goal, of course, is for workers to make the most money possible. In that day and age, that USUALLY meant travelling to several territories, maxing out your main event run there, and moving on. That's especially true with the monster heels (like Hogan) in New York, as Kelly noted.

 

Sure. Some guys could make bank by staying put in one region, but they were few & far between. They were the exceptions. Not the rule. In most cases, if you didn't have homestead in the region or work for the office, you weren't going to benefit from remaining in one place like that.

 

With the Rocky 3 casting, Hogan could call his shots a bit. It only made sense for him to explore other options. Besides, it wasn't like the door was shut in his face. So he probably WANTED to venture out, while Vince Sr. was clearly committed to the Backlund reign for the time being. Seems mostly mutual to me.

 

Then there's good old Larry Z. The way Larry always spins it, he was the tool they employed to motivate Bruno into getting back in the ring for another run. Larry's involvement sparked Sammartino's interest enough to make the comeback and work through the extent of the angle. Beyond that? He seems to believe there weren't ever any serious plans to keep him in the mix. Because it didn't take long for him to go from top-tier heel to mid-card fodder for the babyface brigade.

 

Then, when he pulled the big power-play (that he claims Bruno helped orchestrate) for no-showing a house show over pay, it was lights out & game over for LarryLand in New York.

[Ricky Jackson]

The real difference is that Verne was the captain of a ship that sank to the bottom of the ocean while Vince Sr. never had to navigate through anything more difficult than a few rough waves.

[Ricky Jackson]

Look out for it in about a week:

 

[SomethingSavage]

Niiiice.

 

Stoked to see what's on the agenda. Should be a pickup truckload of fun.

[The Chief]

Fuuuuuuuuuck yeah!

[Zoo Enthusiast]

Awesome!

[Ricky Jackson]

In advance of Titans #29 (part 1 of 2 dropping Tuesday) here is the Georgia footage we - Parv, Johnny, Superstar Marty Sleeze and myself - discuss on the show. Part 1 covers everything up to and including the Mr. Wrestling II/Assassin segment. Enjoy!

 

 

Also, coming to a theatre near you in an alternate universe in 1975

[SomethingSavage]

Nice.

 

Now then! To clear two and a half hours of free time in the next few days.

 

... Shit.

[Ricky Jackson]

Well, you just need to watch the first 54 minutes to cover the stuff we talked about on part 1, so that's not too bad.

[Zoo Enthusiast]

Loving all the different threads.

 

I hope you guys do more St Louis. That was actually the show that made me an addict.