JaymeFuture Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 So, we're taping another podcast on Wednesday, and the topic of discussion is on who the best big man in the history of the business is, and would like some feedback and suggestions from you guys to read on the show (and I'll credit you as always). I think it's an interesting topic, and the ambiguity of what constitutes a "big man" is an issue in some ways, but part of the show will be justifying our own choices in the roundtable discussion and debating the others that get suggested, so that's part and parcel of it. And hell, even what qualifies somebody as the best is subjective and an interesting part of the discussion - a guy who was agile and an amazing worker for a guy his size, or somebody who played the role to perfection and was completely effective. But yeh, who is your own personal pick, and what criteria do you personally have for that pick? Am interested in who gets picked, as I know certain sacred cows like Brody are not thought of too highly here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 I'll vote Vader. Had good runs in NJPW, WCW, UWFi, WWF, and AJPW. Always entertaining Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidebottom Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 I'd give a nod to Vader pre 1994. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 If Andre counts, the answer is Andre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaymeFuture Posted June 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 Andre is the guy I'm making a case for on the show... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 In terms of drawing, no one else compares. I think you could make a case for him being the biggest draw of the 70s. He'd pop gates in New York and Philly, but unlike Bruno, if he went to St. Louis, he'd pop the gate there. If he went to New Orleans, he'd do so there. There wasn't a territory he wouldn't draw in. And he was a massive star in Canada. In terms of playing his role to perfection and effectively, again, hard to think of anyone who did it better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillThompson Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 Vader, and it's really not close in any fashion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawho5 Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 I think Akira Taue deserves a mention. I'll also agree with Vader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 Andre. It's not just that he was Andre but he's a wrestler who seemed to know exactly what he was doing in the ring at every point and it was always the right thing. Henry, Quake, and Blackwell all deserve discussion though. Blackwell might have given too much sometimes but it was so wildly entertaining it made up for it (And he's probably the best draw of the three but between Summerslam 90 and 2012,you can make arguments), but the other two worked strictly as big men better than almost anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 Was Blackwell really a "big man" or just a fat man? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 I think it's a pretty open category. I think the issue of contention is more interesting if it's about Super Porky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrainfollower Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 Yeah it's Andre and it's not even close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 For all the people saying Vader, what's the argument for him over Andre? That he could do moonsaults? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 I think it's more that he punches people in the face hard? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 For all the people saying Vader, what's the argument for him over Andre? That he could do moonsaults? Yes. And what's wrong with that? Oh yeah, being able to work is a crutch, I forgot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 I think it's more that he punches people in the face hard? That too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 There's also the argument that Vader was probably at times (1992-1994) as good as anyone in the world. His style was incredibly portable. How many guys could work the same match in WCW and UWFI and have it get over in both places? His athleticism helped him, but he was also a great bumper and could keep up with anyone he was facing in the ring in terms of pacing and offense. The more old Andre I see, the more I like him, but we can only go based on what's on videotape, and aside from the Hansen and Kobayashi matches, I'm not sure how many Andre has at the level of Vader's matches with Sting, as just one example. On the surface, Vader to Andre comparisons strike me as very similar to Rey to Tiger Mask comparisons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 I would have Vader third, actually, behind both André the Giant & The Undertaker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stomperspc Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 For all the people saying Vader, what's the argument for him over Andre? That he could do moonsaults? That he was the better overall worker at their respective peaks? I don't see how that is a crazy claim to make at all. The thing is, a lot of Vader's positive attributes are things that Andre didn't do simply because he didn't need to do them. I think Vader was far more versatile, was a better bumper (which enabled him to help get over babyface opponents), and was a better offensive wrestler. To be fair, Andre wasn't asked to do that stuff and didn't need to but it is still a point in Vader's favor that he demonstrated he could do all of that effectively. Along those same lines, Vader showed he could remain over even when not booked like an invincible monster and he didn't have the benefit of being a special attraction wrestler going territory to territory like Andre was for a good portion of his career. Again, those are less knocks on Andre and more just positives that Vader has on his resume. I am not going to fault Andre for not needing to do some of the things Vader did but I don't think you can ignore them on Vader's resume just because Andre wrestled his career under different circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidebottom Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 What's the criteria of this here? Are we talking about just what's on tape? Or star power, drawing power etc? If it's the latter, Andre wins hands down. But in terms of creating a body of work in the ring, bell to bell, Vader was far beyond Andre in terms of entertainment value, in my opinion. Matches like the one against Sting at GAB 1992, against Flair at Starcade in 1993, Inoki in 1996, and the series of matches between him and Takada and Foley are of a level which I personally haven't seen in any Andre match. Plus Vader pulled out the only watchable match of Jorge Gonzalez's career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR Ackermann Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 I like Vader and I think he's got to be a Top 10 all-time offensive wrestler, but I like him less and less each time I see him. He can do everything well mechanically. Like Loss said, he is a great bumper, but my issue with him is how, when and why he bumps. He gives his opponents wayyy too much. The first sign of offense they show and he's flying all around the ring, usually going over the top rope before he cuts them off. Of course Vader should be in the conversation, but I think that if he is the best big man ever, then the bar isn't that high. But I haven't seen a whole lot of his Japanese work. Mark Henry, on the other hand is someone who I am liking more and more every time I see him. I think he plays his role wonderfully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 I would call the best big man worker the big man that had the most distinct great performances. I sort of like Vader's tendency to fly around. I consider it a huge credit to him not only that he could do it, but that in doing so he still had the monster aura because his offense was so good. Most aren't good enough to get away with giving away so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR Ackermann Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 I give him credit for being willing and able to bump, but a lot of the time I am taken out of the match by it. His Sting matches are awesome though, and most wrestlers don't have anything that good on their resume. In the context of Japanese wrestling, wouldn't Jumbo Tsuruta be a big man? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 Jumbo was a big guy but he didn't really incorporate spots getting over his size relative to others very much, so I wouldn't put him in this category. Similar to Barry Windham in that Windham was pretty tall but it wasn't really a part of what he did in the ring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 Charles can you elaborate on the Tiger Mask point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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