Analysing Austin's performance as company ace

[MoS]

How would you guys rate Steve Austin's performance as company ace? By this term, I am excluding the time in 2001 when he was WWF heel champ for most of the year as I strictly want to talk about his babyface run. Most people, when talking about great company aces, (this excludes drawing) talk about Shawn and Bret as great, consistent main event aces. Dylan said he might consider Cena to be the best company ace.

 

I think Austin is unfairly shunted and excluded in these discussions. True, if the sole metric is matches, then he does not hold up as well as others. His time on top was short, and his body was broken down by them. However, analysing his performance week-to-week, he does a fantastic job, in my opinion. Austin was so good with his facial epressions, and, for all the talk about his changing the dynamics of faces and heels in WWF, he was a fantastic babyface. He was great at evoking sympathy from the crowd, and getting over the heels he was wrestling as credible threats. He was brilliant as a fiery babyface making comebacks and milking comebacks to the last little drop. it is telling that he was booked just as strongly as every company ace, yet he had no problems appearing vulnerable, something which not many have been able to do.

 

Thoughts?

[funkdoc]

i didn't know people were underrating austin, always used to seeing matches like over the edge 98 get tons of love online

 

no idea how one could put cena above austin, that's for sure. "company ace" does not mean "most great main event matches"!

[Dylan Waco]

I think there is a difference between your working ace slot and your clearly top dog ace spot.

 

If one is looking at the total picture I think few have been better than Austin. The proof is in the drawing power, but also in the live reactions, the way the shows were centered around him, the way he carried himself, et. I haven't gone back and watched that era of Austin in years, and it's not likely to be something I will do anytime soon, but my memories of it are largely positive.

 

Having said that I don't think Austin is even in the same universe as Cena when it comes to the "working ace" slot. To be fair that's not entirely Austin's fault. People bitch about the title now, but I thought the ultimate in the title being a side show was at the peak of Austin's run. For that reason you don't have Austin with a run like 06/07 Cena where he was up against a hugely diverse group of wrestlers, in high stakes matches, that delivered and enhanced the status of the top star and champion every time.

[Loss]

I do think there's value in breaking it down, because I think Austin's stardom is often conflated with his working ability. And it should be, at least to an extent, since they aren't entirely mutually exclusive. But everyone loved the guy so there isn't the same level of discussion around him that there is, say, Shawn Michaels.

[goc]

Loss has a good point. Austin isn't discussed that much because there really is nothing to argue about him. Everyone seems to know and agree how important he was. The only real thing to talk about with Austin is "what-if" scenarios like "what happens to WWF if Austin can't return after Summerslam 97" or "how much bigger could he have been had he never had the neck injury"

[Yo-Yo's Roomie]

I was just thinking earlier about how when Austin was on top, the company was able to develop these other hot stars (namely The Rock, Foley, and Triple H). How much credit do you think Austin deserves for that, and do you think that has any value when analyzing his performance as the ace? I was specifically thinking about this in relation to Cena's (much longer) run on top, and how he hasn't really been able to drag anyone with him to that elite status (I suppose Batista, Punk and Bryan would be nearest, unless I'm blanking on someone obvious). Conversely, can we lay any of the blame for that on Cena, or does the blame fall solely on the company?

[Loss]

The WWF wanted everyone to be as over as possible until HHH got to the top and Jericho showed up. It seems like the games started from there.

[(BP)]

Austin has admitted to being very protective and paranoid about his spot, and Cena is probably the most generous ace they've ever had. Elevation or lack thereof of talent is squarely on creative.

[Matt D]

The WWF wanted everyone to be as over as possible until HHH got to the top and Jericho showed up. It seems like the games started from there.

What about Bart Gunn?

[Petey]

The WWF wanted everyone to be as over as possible as long as some guy didn't screw up a hugely planned program involving a guy who was gonna work with the top guy. There are exceptions to everything.

[Yo-Yo's Roomie]

Austin has admitted to being very protective and paranoid about his spot, and Cena is probably the most generous ace they've ever had. Elevation or lack thereof of talent is squarely on creative.

 

The point is that maybe Austin being so protective of his spot forced other guys to push themselves that much harder in an attempt to break out. On the other hand, Cena being so generous to his opponents maybe just means that none of them truly stand out as being special. I remember a few years back him having a really good match with Swagger on Raw (before Swagger was damaged goods), where he gave Jack a ton of offence. Looked like a possible star-making match for Jack, but then when he does the same thing for all his opponents, regardless of their position on the card, how does one stand out from the pack? Generally, I think you're right that creative just has a different outlook on things nowadays (more competitive matches in general, afraid to push someone too hard too soon, etc), but I do think it's interesting to look at the part Austin and Cena have played in the development of other stars. Maybe it's not really relevant to this particular discussion (or maybe it is), but I think it's interesting nonetheless.

[jdw]

I think there is a difference between your working ace slot and your clearly top dog ace spot.

 

If one is looking at the total picture I think few have been better than Austin. The proof is in the drawing power, but also in the live reactions, the way the shows were centered around him, the way he carried himself, et. I haven't gone back and watched that era of Austin in years, and it's not likely to be something I will do anytime soon, but my memories of it are largely positive.

 

Having said that I don't think Austin is even in the same universe as Cena when it comes to the "working ace" slot. To be fair that's not entirely Austin's fault. People bitch about the title now, but I thought the ultimate in the title being a side show was at the peak of Austin's run. For that reason you don't have Austin with a run like 06/07 Cena where he was up against a hugely diverse group of wrestlers, in high stakes matches, that delivered and enhanced the status of the top star and champion every time.

 

I would say that Austin was in an odd spot as the Ace. We had decades of the WWF having dynastic champions who held the belt for years, then close to a year as late as Shawn's first run (broken up briefly by Sid to set up a rematch). When Austin finally got the belt, we had the duel shorting of booking cycles caused by (i) the increase to 12 PPV a year, and (ii) Monday Night Wars booking for TV. Austin's prime as ace (3/98 - 8/99) came right at the peak of that. It meant he didn't really get the runs as Champion Ace that those before him did, or as we saw starting to pop up again in the next decade. He was a different type of Ace, which was even more clear when they took the belt off him later in 1998 to set up a chase to Mania... and made the actually championship part of that chase only start after the last PPV prior to Mania.

 

Then he got hurt, went out for a long stretch, and by the time he was back they wanted to generally keep him away from the Belt to save that once again for Mania.

 

It's surprising how little Austin had the Belt in that period of being the Face Ace of the promotion between the Manias of 1998 and 2001. But the injury was a big part of that, and the view of keeping him away from the belt except when he was ready to take it back.

 

The Cena period you point to is pretty much the 180 of Austin's period. Austin hit the culmination of an evolution where title runs were shorter, and Vince figured out how to book an Ace without having the belt on him. Cena 2006/07 was the culmination of a period that started in 2002 with the belt-split. You had the Triple H dynastic run with Big Goldie, and the WWE having the long "share" runs of Brock & Kurt (511 of 539 days), then the long run of Bradshaw (longest since Diesel). The pump was primed for those long runs Batista and Cena got starting and Mania 21. Cena basically ended up with the belt for two and a half years before his first injury vacate job. Just not something that could have been in the stars for Austin in his prime.

 

We also need to consider that by this point the WWE had a decade of experience in booking weekly TV where the point was just as much Drawing Viewers as it was Selling PPV & House Shows. They also had the decade under their belt of monthly PPV. And that true competition (WCW in the mid/late 90s) was gone. So we have a few other things that had changed from Austin Prime.

 

I think Austin was exceptional as his type of Ace. Fans like his matches just as they liked Hogan's. He was pretty terrific in carrying the TV product, which was increasingly important as a revenue stream and as a focus of the promotion. He was a strong PPV anchor. It just all was different from classical WWF Ace's, and from what the WWE was able to do in Cena's prime.

 

Makes for different beasts.

 

* * * * *

 

On the original question, I don't think Austin has ever been slighted when people talk about his role as an Ace. Quite the opposite: there are folks who raise him up to Hogan levels. That was one of the reasons we have that Vince & Hulk vs The World thread: trying to remind people of the context of Hogan's run when people are claiming Austin's was "bigger". So... Austin has been treated pretty well.