Memphis Mark Posted April 12, 2015 Report Share Posted April 12, 2015 So, two tournaments have been booked for the weekend of May 22nd with JLIT and now PWG's DDT4. PWG DDT4 Team Tremendous (Dan Barry & Bill Carr) make their PWG debut Forth Gunn (Drew Gulak & Biff Busick) Beaver Boys (John Silver & Alex Reynolds) World’s Cutest Tag Team (Joey Ryan & Candice LeRae) Inner City Machine Guns (Ricochet & Rich Swann) Monster Mafia (Ethan Page & Josh Alexander) Andrew Everett and Trevor Lee Love Gun (Chris Sabin and Matt Sydal) AIW's JLIT 2015 1.Little Guido 2.Nick Gage 3.Athena 4.Eric Ryan 5.Raymond Rowe 6.Dick Justice 7.Louis Lyndon 8.Tyson Dux 9.Josh Prohibition 10.Heidi Lovelace 11.Cedric Alexander For what is considered the ultimate indy fed in North America, I'm not so sure they are putting on a more interesting lineup with their annual tag tournament. Actually think PWG stealing Gargano and Ethan Page for the 22nd increases my anticipation for this bad boy. I made this point on Twitter but I'm not sure if there are 3 wrestlers in the entire DDT4 (Gulak, Busick, and Sydal) that I'd consider clearly better than Little Guido in 2015. And not more than 4(Hero) on that entire card. While I think the percentage of interesting talent for AIW is bound to go down, I still think they have a good shot at surpassing DDT4 on overall, on paper quality and at the very least surpass that card in the intrigue factor. Is the independent intergender wrestling craze here to stay ? I mean how long can PWG continue ask male wrestlers to put over the Joey and Candice show ? The Joey & Candice team is why I quit watching PWG. Also the AIW tourny looks like another intergender deal , there are several women in the field. . I know I am old school but I think all of the intergender wrestling is going to have a negative impact on the business. I know some people enjoy watching women and men wrestle , but I think it is a very limited number. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted April 12, 2015 Report Share Posted April 12, 2015 That probably deserves its own topic to be honest, but while I don't think intergender wrestling will really harm the business, I also don't really like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Posted April 12, 2015 Report Share Posted April 12, 2015 Looking forward to watching some CHIKARA. Ordered King of Trios 2012. Always heard good things about the promotion but never bit till now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillThompson Posted April 12, 2015 Report Share Posted April 12, 2015 So, two tournaments have been booked for the weekend of May 22nd with JLIT and now PWG's DDT4. PWG DDT4 Team Tremendous (Dan Barry & Bill Carr) make their PWG debut Forth Gunn (Drew Gulak & Biff Busick) Beaver Boys (John Silver & Alex Reynolds) World’s Cutest Tag Team (Joey Ryan & Candice LeRae) Inner City Machine Guns (Ricochet & Rich Swann) Monster Mafia (Ethan Page & Josh Alexander) Andrew Everett and Trevor Lee Love Gun (Chris Sabin and Matt Sydal) AIW's JLIT 2015 1.Little Guido 2.Nick Gage 3.Athena 4.Eric Ryan 5.Raymond Rowe 6.Dick Justice 7.Louis Lyndon 8.Tyson Dux 9.Josh Prohibition 10.Heidi Lovelace 11.Cedric Alexander For what is considered the ultimate indy fed in North America, I'm not so sure they are putting on a more interesting lineup with their annual tag tournament. Actually think PWG stealing Gargano and Ethan Page for the 22nd increases my anticipation for this bad boy. I made this point on Twitter but I'm not sure if there are 3 wrestlers in the entire DDT4 (Gulak, Busick, and Sydal) that I'd consider clearly better than Little Guido in 2015. And not more than 4(Hero) on that entire card. While I think the percentage of interesting talent for AIW is bound to go down, I still think they have a good shot at surpassing DDT4 on overall, on paper quality and at the very least surpass that card in the intrigue factor. Is the independent intergender wrestling craze here to stay ? I mean how long can PWG continue ask male wrestlers to put over the Joey and Candice show ? The Joey & Candice team is why I quit watching PWG. Also the AIW tourny looks like another intergender deal , there are several women in the field. . I know I am old school but I think all of the intergender wrestling is going to have a negative impact on the business. I know some people enjoy watching women and men wrestle , but I think it is a very limited number. As long as Joe & Candice are super over they will continue to be booked together, against men. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted April 12, 2015 Report Share Posted April 12, 2015 I don't follow the Indies so in regards to business I'm not qualified to take a guess. But I don't like it either. I don't like the idea of man on woman violence staged or not. Then again I worked as a Bartender and Bouncer for the majority of my life and have seen some fubar incidents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concrete1992 Posted April 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2015 Really don't mind intergender wrestling. Nor do I go out of my way to seek it out. That would be going against the entire spirit of what it is to me. When an independent promotion is booking these matches I like to believe they have good intentions and the matches are made to create interesting matches based on the talent regardless of gender. Granted that is more often than not probably not the case but that is how I like to view it. I also like the field overall and enjoy Heidi Lovelace among the females in the group. They are also running a Girls Night Out event the same weekend so they're making the most of the better talent. I say "better" in the perceived sense since Athena hasn't really been my bag over someone like a Mia Yim or Lovelace or Jordynn Grace. ALSO, AIW just announced Doug Gilbert for JLIT. What a weird and beautiful lineup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Evans Posted April 12, 2015 Report Share Posted April 12, 2015 I'm just wondering if the same people that have a problem with intergender wrestling have a problem with a guy like Cesaro taking bumps from Hornswoggle or Torito? I'm not the biggest fan of intergender wrestling but it doesn't bother me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoo Enthusiast Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 I loved the shit out of the Bucks/WCTT Guerrilla Warfare match. It's not something I seek out, either, but I think it's fine. Especially in an environment like PWG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Evans Posted April 19, 2015 Report Share Posted April 19, 2015 Well tonight's FIP/Evolve show was a tale of two shows. The FIP show was just awful. Bad wrestling and a dead crowd. The show drew about 75-100 people I would say. The highlight of the FIP show was Trina Michaels and her doing HLA and Swann winning the title back from Roderick Strong. The Showcase match was dissapointing cause it was just a way to get MSL on the card as one of his dudes came in and won the match they weren't even in. Nick Richards was pretty good though.Royal did a nice fat man dive. Evolve started off ok with a decent women's match between Andrea and Santana Garrett. Ethan Page's match was there and I really enjoyed Rey Horus/Andrew Everett. Horus will probably be in WWE sooner rather than later. Then the internet went out. According to one of the workers, the owners of the building turned off the internet and Evolve had to try and get it turned back on. This lead to an hour+ intermission that damn near killed the crowd. Some people left and some were asking for refunds. I thought for sure the show was gonna get canceled but it didn't. The show got started and then St. Timothy Thatcher showed up vs TJP. Such a great MOTYC. Thatcher was great but TJP held his own. That match saved the show and the other matches that followed it were good to really good. I enjoyed the main event live but it probably wasn't as good on IPPV. Rich Swann is one of my favorite guys and all 4 guys took a beating in the main. Overall a good show but FIP really needs to cut the fat. Especially the shitty Chaysen Rance students. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted April 19, 2015 Report Share Posted April 19, 2015 Well tonight's FIP/Evolve show was a tale of two shows. The FIP show was just awful. Bad wrestling and a dead crowd. The show drew about 75-100 people I would say. The highlight of the FIP show was Trina Michaels and her doing HLA and Swann winning the title back from Roderick Strong. The Showcase match was dissapointing cause it was just a way to get MSL on the card as one of his dudes came in and won the match they weren't even in. Nick Richards was pretty good though.Royal did a nice fat man dive. Evolve started off ok with a decent women's match between Andrea and Santana Garrett. Ethan Page's match was there and I really enjoyed Rey Horus/Andrew Everett. Horus will probably be in WWE sooner rather than later. Then the internet went out. According to one of the workers, the owners of the building turned off the internet and Evolve had to try and get it turned back on. This lead to an hour+ intermission that damn near killed the crowd. Some people left and some were asking for refunds. I thought for sure the show was gonna get canceled but it didn't. The show got started and then St. Timothy Thatcher showed up vs TJP. Such a great MOTYC. Thatcher was great but TJP held his own. That match saved the show and the other matches that followed it were good to really good. I enjoyed the main event live but it probably wasn't as good on IPPV. Rich Swann is one of my favorite guys and all 4 guys took a beating in the main. Overall a good show but FIP really needs to cut the fat. Especially the shitty Chaysen Rance students. I'm looking forward to watching it when it ends up on WWN. I ordered both shows, but was busy. Now you have me dieing to see the Thatcher match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted April 19, 2015 Report Share Posted April 19, 2015 Thatcher/Perkins was a tremendous match and early US MOTYC no doubt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoo Enthusiast Posted April 19, 2015 Report Share Posted April 19, 2015 Why does FIP even exist at this point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vedhead Posted April 19, 2015 Report Share Posted April 19, 2015 Anyone from Toronto go to the past two Superkick'd shows? Really fun live events and they do a decent job of integrating locals with the names they bring in. Considering it's my first times seeing any sort of 'indy darling' style wrestling live, I really enjoy it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concrete1992 Posted April 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 Went to 2CW tonight and it was nothing like the event from a couple weeks ago. Meaning, IT WAS REALLY FUN! A real variety show of quality pro wrestling. The Young Bucks were supposed to be on the card but weren't able to make it because of travel issues. I don't think that held the card back at all since they were going against Richards/Strong so there was probably a limit to that. But even that match that I wasn't looking forward to delivered with Team Tremendous vs No Remorse Corp. Davey was rocking a faux-Davey act and it was just fun. Loved Davey doing his SHOOT BACK-HANDSPRING KICK(I don't know) and then Bill Carr lariating the piss out of him. They had a scramble for the belt with 6 grapplers who all delivered the fun. Dalton Castle did a delay GERMAN SUPLEX on Dick Justice which was utter insanity. Should note that for plenty of matches the crowd was piss poor. Wouldn't get into anything. Which I didn't understand one bit cause then they'd do a nice chant afterwards as a show of appreciation. Why not just do that during the damn match? Whatever. Mickie James vs Cherry Bomb continues to make me think that James is leagues better than she'll ever get credit for. Wrestlers that make headlocks interesting get my seal of approval. Cherry can be a p good shit talker too. They main evented with Fox vs. Delaney which was fun live but I don't see that match holding up to ANY sort of tape scrutiny. Sucks to see Fox do 15 floaty enzurguries and then land like 3 stiff bicycle kicks. GIVE ME THE STIFF! Oh, and 2 Cold Scorpio showed up! Helluva surprise. He went up against Cheech and CJ Parker and it was hot stuff. 2 Cold is just so good. One of the best moments going to live shows was this. Didn't realize how good CJP's punches were. They were *FIRE EMOJI*. Oh, and Mike Bennett and Matt Taven kicked after working essentially a comedy match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 The end to the awesome Fred Yehi v. Slim J series is here. There best of five ended on a countout loss, so they brought back the match for the big Hardcore Hell show with a 2/3 Falls stip. It ended up being the best match of the series and one of my favorite matches this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memphis Mark Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 Why does FIP even exist at this point? I guess FIP exists so that Sal Hamaoui can play wrestling booker . FIP cannot be making any money. If they were smart they would put all of their resources into building the Evolve brand, instead of running all of these separate brands. All of these WWN promotions are like nomads wandering the desert. No one knows when they are going to run , where they are going to run and that seem have given up on releasing DVDS. Hard to build a fan base the way that WWN operates their business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Evans Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 FIP pretty much exists to get Chaysen Rance and MSL students some experience and showcase local FL talent. They pretty much only run when Evolve does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 Are the indies beginning to get behind the more mat based grapplers? It seems with people like Thatcher, Gulak, Busick , and Perkins over at Evolve. Fred Yehi vs Slim J best of 5 in Anarchy showcased matches with a lot of good mat work. Is this a trend that could be the norm on the Indies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strand Peanut Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 It's already been one for a bit. I don't think it's drawn any extra money into the indies though. I'm no expert on the indies tho.. Dedicated "mat" wrestling sticks out stylistic in the US, and it's been that way for a long time. The next step would be integration. People love style clashes, but I'm not sure how well the realities of what Thatcher does mixes with the realities of most wrestlers. It requires (forces?) the opposite worker to make conceits that may be difficult to acheive. If a middle ground was acheive en masse.. that'd lead to some interesting stuff, and maybe some extra interest at the door. In other words: If Briscoe vs Thatcher was announced tomorrow, I imagine people would be incredibly interested. But how successful of a match would it be ? Japan ran into a lot of problems along these lines. But there was much more money on the line then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concrete1992 Posted May 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 Artistically this grappling style is being praised, especially with EVOLVE, but this movement so to speak isn't happening in a good drawing indie. While Evolve gets a lot of press, I have no reason to believe that they are taking in more money than promotions like AIW, AAW, or 2CW. CZW had it going but they've all but abandoned it now and they were the only promotion that could point to big crowds and grapply grapplers. As far as stylistic matches are concerned, we are already getting styles clashes but Thatcher comes off the most capable of getting mileage out of those matches solely because he is the one who has not been around the East Coast centric area for too long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strand Peanut Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 What kind of attendance numbers constitue a good drawing indie in 2015 ? Which groups would fit that bill ? With footage availability being what it is, does one need the larger live crowds to make just a stylistic impact? The EVOLVE project is interesting, but it can't really succeed without a way to work with the rest of the indie scene. I'd think running two or three as invading troupe would do better than Thatcher touring as a showcase of the style.. but I'm not sure if EVOLVE is even in a position to control such a situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 Anyone from Toronto go to the past two Superkick'd shows? Really fun live events and they do a decent job of integrating locals with the names they bring in. Considering it's my first times seeing any sort of 'indy darling' style wrestling live, I really enjoy it Where do they run in Toronto, because I was unaware of them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 House of Hardcore is running in Toronto in July. I am tempted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concrete1992 Posted May 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 What kind of attendance numbers constitute a good drawing indie in 2015 ? Which groups would fit that bill ? With footage availability being what it is, does one need the larger live crowds to make just a stylistic impact? The EVOLVE project is interesting, but it can't really succeed without a way to work with the rest of the indie scene. I'd think running two or three as invading troupe would do better than Thatcher touring as a showcase of the style.. but I'm not sure if EVOLVE is even in a position to control such a situation. I was more referring to your idea that you pointed to with money for the first bit. I mean an indie only needs like a semi-consistent 350+ fans to be considered a quality drawing in this day and age. But EVOLVE rarely seems to be passing 200 fans let alone another 100. Can you explain what you mean by the "EVOLVE project"? Cause mixing the grappling with the other fellas isn't a truly novel concept so I must be missing something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strand Peanut Posted May 2, 2015 Report Share Posted May 2, 2015 Sorry, those were more open ended questions for the board.. not specifically for you. I appreciate the info, as I've been out of the indie scene. Was utterly unsure what was good attendance at the moment. By the EVOLVE project.. I think it's an idea, a theoretical sandbox if you will. It doesn't draw.. I know that. Mixing grappling with non-grappling (I'm not sure how to properly define the split) isn't novel in the grand scheme. But, I don't think they're doing that. I need to see more of what they're doing. But so far they seem to be working in a more closed field. I kinda get a BattleARTS feel from what I've seen so far.. which makes me wonder the point. (Which reminds me.. gotta watch that Yoji Anjo retirement show again..) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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