2014 Wrestling Observer Hall of Fame thread

[Bix]

Here's the ballot, comments to come in a reply...

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It's time for the 2014 Hall of Fame elections.

This ballot is being sent out to major wrestling stars, past and present, major management figures in the industry, writers and historians.

If you are getting this, you are being asked your opinion on who should be inducted into this year's Hall of Fame class. The criteria for the Hall of Fame is a combination of drawing power, being a great in-ring performer or excelling in ones field in pro wrestling, as well as having historical significance in a positive manner. A candidate should either have something to offer in all three categories, or be someone so outstanding in one or two of those categories that they deserve inclusion.

The names listed below are those under consideration for this year. To be eligible, a performer must have reached their 35th birthday and completed ten years since their debut as a full-time performer, or be someone who has been a full-time pro wrestler for at least 15 years.

Longevity should be a prime consideration rather than a hot two or three year run, unless someone is so significant as a trend-setter or a historical figure in the business, or valuable to the industry, that they need to be included. However, just longevity without being either a long-term main eventer, a top draw and/or a top caliber in-ring performer should be seen as relatively meaningless.

The election is broken down into a number of categories. You should check each category for wrestlers that you feel you are familiar enough with based on geography that you've either traveled or are familiar with, and based on the time you have followed pro wrestling. You do not have to vote for a wrestler in every category you've checked.

The ballot is also broken down to wrestlers and those who are not pro wrestlers but have been valuable parts of the industry.

The maximum number of wrestlers that you can vote for all the categories is ten. You can pick as few as zero if you don't believe anyone on this list deserves inclusion.

For wrestling executives, managers, announcers and other outside the ring performers, you can vote for them and they are not counted against the ten. You can vote for as many as five of them.

All responses are confidential. There is nothing to worry about politically about any involvement in this process. Your selections will not be revealed unless you choose to do so yourself.

Anyone who receives mention on 60% of the ballots from the geographical region and time frame (broken down as Continental United States & Canada; Mexico; Japan; Europe; and Hawaii/Australia/New Zealand) will be added to the Hall of Fame in the class of 2014.

If you are unfamiliar with any of the candidates due to geography of having never seen them, that is fine. Ballots are sent to many people from all over the world and from different wrestling cultures so that everyone has as fair a shot at possible.

The breakdown for modern and historical performers is 30 years ago, or 1984. So if the last year the person was a headliner, or was a key figure in the industry, was prior to 1984, they would be in the historical class.

All performers who receive mention on 10% to 59.9% of the ballots from their geographical region or era will remain on the ballot for consideration next year. All those who receive less than 10% of the vote will be dropped from next year's ballot. They can return in two years based on if there is significant feedback from voters who say they will vote for them. This is mostly for wrestlers who are still active who may improve their career legacy, but can be for retired wrestlers if voters believe they should be put on or returned to the ballot.

In addition, in following the lead of the baseball Hall of Fame, which is the model here, starting this year we have a 15-year-rule. The following candidates have been on the ballot since 2000. In baseball, this would be their last year of eligibility. Here, if they don't get at least 50% of the votes in this year's election they will be removed from the ballot. If they are modern candidates, they can be brought back in the historical performers era in two years if it is more than 30 years since their career as a Hall Fame level performer is up:

The following candidates will be dropped from next year's ballot unless they are elected in or garner 50% of the vote:

Gene & Ole Anderson

Cien Caras

Carlos Colon

Gran Hamada

Volk Han

Owen Hart

Gorilla Monsoon

Fabulous Moolah

Pedro Morales

Dick Murdoch

Rock & Roll Express

Seiji Sakaguchi

Jimmy Snuka

Wilbur Snyder

Jesse Ventura

Please return this ballot by October 5th. You can e-mail the ballot back to [email protected] or fax it to 408-244-3402 or mail (please do so by September 28th) to Wrestling Observer, P.O. Box 1228, Campbell, CA 95009-1228.

Please check by every category you are familiar with

I FOLLOWED THE HISTORICAL PERFORMERS ERA CANDIDATES

Gene & Ole Anderson

The Assassins (Joe Hamilton & Tom Renesto)

Red Bastien

June Byers

Pepper Gomez

Dick Hutton

Pedro Morales

Ciclon Negro

Kinji Shibuya

Wilbur Snyder

John Tolos

Enrique Torres

Von Brauners & Saul Weingeroff

Tim "Mr. Wrestling" Woods

Johnny "Mr. Wrestling II" Walker

I FOLLOWED THE MODERN PERFORMERS IN U.S/CANADA CANDIDATES

Junkyard Dog

Edge

Owen Hart

Curt Hennig

Ivan Koloff

Brock Lesnar

Fabulous Moolah

Dick Murdoch

Ken Patera

C.M. Punk

Rock & Roll Express (Ricky Morton & Robert Gibson)

Sgt. Slaughter

Jimmy Snuka

Sting

Ultimate Warrior

I FOLLOWED WRESTLING IN JAPAN CANDIDATES

Jun Akiyama

George Gordienko

Gran Hamada

Volk Han

Masahiko Kimura

Satoshi Kojima & Hiroyoshi Tenzan

Yuji Nagata

Seiji Sakaguchi

Mike & Ben Sharpe

Minoru Suzuki

Kiyoshi Tamura

Akira Taue

I FOLLOWED WRESTLING IN MEXICO CANDIDATES

Brazo de Oro & Brazo de Plata & El Brazo

Cien Caras

Hector Garza

Ultimo Guerrero

Karloff Lagarde

Blue Panther

L.A. Park

Huracan Ramirez

El Signo & El Texano & Negro Navarro

Vampiro

Villano III

Dr. Wagner Jr.

I FOLLOWED WRESTLING IN EUROPE CANDIDATES

Jim Breaks

Big Daddy

Giant Haystacks

Horst Hoffman

Billy Joyce

Kendo Nagasaki

Jackie Pallo

Rollerball Mark Rocco

Johnny Saint

Otto Wanz

I FOLLOWED WRESTLING IN AUSTRALIA/PACIFIC ISLANDS/CARIBBEAN/AFRICA CANDIDATES

Spyros Arion

Johnny Barend

Brute Bernard & Skull Murphy

Carlos Colon

King Kong Czaja

John DaSilva

Domenic DeNucci

Killer Karl Kox

Mark Lewin

Mario Milano

Jan Wilkens

NON-WRESTLERS

Bill Apter

Dave Brown

Jim Crockett Jr.

Jim Crockett Sr.

Gary Hart

Jimmy Hart

Howard Finkel

Jerry Jarrett

Larry Matysik

Gorilla Monsoon

Gene Okerluind

Don Owen

George Scott

Jesse Ventura

Stanley Weston

[Bix]

So we have a new rule: Starting this year with wrestlers who have been on the ballot since 2000, if you don't go in within 15 years, you're off the ballot. If you're a modern performer, you can age out into

 

Also, Africa has been added to the weird catch-all "region," with Jan Wilkens on the ballot.

 

With the rule change and surprise additions I have no clue what my ballot is gonna look like.

[Hollinger.]

Another year left off the list. Thanks, Dave.

[Matt D]

Is there any argument for Monsoon as a promoter? Also what's the precedent of people getting in for combinations of things. Wrestler+Promoter+Announcer, etc?

[Hollinger.]

Actually, someone could probably just e-mail their ballot to Dave and he'd just count it. It's Dave.

[Dylan Waco]

I got a ballot this year which is cool, but the various changes to the ballot are going to make it WAY harder for me than it would have been last year. I understand the concept of capping the time someone can appear on the ballot, but the 50% threshold seems really high, and I am very concerned that the end result will be a lot of reasonable "borderline" candidates who are worth thinking about and doing more research on will be trimmed off, in lieu of a bunch of modern candidates that are clearly weaker but will have an easier go of it without the logjam. I do think some of the additions to the ballot that we weren't expecting are great, but it really does make it harder to pick where to vote, especially because the Lucha ballot is so deep.

[JNLister]

I can see the new rule causing more confusion for some voters. Say you've got 11 candidates you think HoF worthy and somebody, lets call him Dick Murdoch, is your 11th best candidate. Do you play it straight and vote for your top 10, or do you pick Murdoch because he's on the chopping board and somebody else in your top 10 is still going to be on the ballot next year if they don't get in?

[shoe]

I'm always for the straight up method. Anything else seems shady even if your intentions are well meaning.

[W2BTD]

I can see the new rule causing more confusion for some voters. Say you've got 11 candidates you think HoF worthy and somebody, lets call him Dick Murdoch, is your 11th best candidate. Do you play it straight and vote for your top 10, or do you pick Murdoch because he's on the chopping board and somebody else in your top 10 is still going to be on the ballot next year if they don't get in?

 

I'm voting for my top ten (or whatever number I end up voting for), with zero regard for who may fall off of the ballot. Those chips will just have to fall wherever they fall.

 

At first I thought the 50% was a really high threshold, but then I thought about what this new wrinkle is based on, the Baseball HOF, and after the 15 (now 10) years, they kick you off regardless of your percentage, even if you only miss by a single vote. So dave is kind of being lenient here. You can stick around beyond the 15 if you are on the cusp.

 

I could go either way on dropping guys after 15. The ballot was getting crowded, so I can see why it was implemented. And it's not as if people can't (and won't) be brought back.

[W2BTD]

Also, i'm pretty sure i'm responsible for getting King Kong Czaja added to the ballot, which means I should probably vote for him just to give me an excuse to vote for that ridiculously constructed miscellaneous region so I can finally vote for Colon.

[Dylan Waco]

I want to say I will only vote for my legitimate top ten, but this new rule might force my hand in a couple of ways. For example I was on the fence about voting in the lucha category, but I'm not willing to risk Caras falling off a ballot that includes Ultimo Guerrero, Hector Garza and Vampiro. So now I will definitely vote for Caras, BUT the problem is if I vote for him do I ignore the rest of the category? It seems insane to do that, when it is by far the deepest category on the ballot. So now I have to decide do I dump four or five votes into lucha (I could easily justify nine votes in that category), or just stick with the one guy in obvious danger?

 

At this point the only people I am positive I will vote for are Colon, the RnR's, Caras, and Patera. Even guys who I had assumed would be virtual locks for me (Torres, Shibuya, Koloff) are harder to give a definite yes to, when you know they are taking away votes from a bunch of borderline/interesting guys who''s absence from the ballot will clear a path for your Edge's and Brock Lesnar's.

[Matt D]

Vote Sting!

[W2BTD]

Rock n Roll Express are my one & only wrestler lock right now. Everybody else I voted for last year either got in, moved to a category I don't vote on, or I changed my mind (I have changed my stance on drawing in UFC when it comes to Brock being relevant to a pro wresting HOF, and without that, I don't think he's close to worthy yet).

 

So I have nine spots open, and find myself seriously considering, conveniently enough, nine candidates. I doubt i'll end up going the full ten, though.

 

I have four non-wrestler spots accounted for, with three candidates in play for the last slot, which I will likely use.

[Dylan Waco]

Actually non-wrestler is the easiest category for me by far.

[Matt D]

For Sting's appearance on the video game panel?

[Robert S]

There are some really horrible choices on the modern US/Canada list.

Interesting to see Wanz on the list, as Meltzer before usually just laughed when the name came up w.r.t. the HOF. I am no Catch expert at all, but Georg Blemenschütz might be a better Austrian candidate for the Hall of Fame.

[funkdoc]

los misioneros de la muerte feel to me like they should be a slam dunk. i would definitely be a bit strategic with my votes in something like this, though.

 

it's fun to think about this even if i don't have a ballot! i would currently be leaning:

 

 

colon, rnr express, cien caras, los misioneros, villano III, huracan ramirez, JYD, patera, the sharpes, big daddy

 

 

i tend to be interested in giving the older stars love. i think i heard there's a "veterans committee" for this HOF though, which would change things up a bit for me. jimmy hart & jerry jarrett would be my slam dunks for non-wrestlers, probably bill apter as well (since inducting the entire company doesn't seem like it would happen). leaning finkel & don owen for the last 2 since the crocketts seem safer.

[evilclown]

My initial thoughts

 

I FOLLOWED THE HISTORICAL PERFORMERS ERA CANDIDATES

Gene & Ole Anderson

Pedro Morales

Johnny "Mr. Wrestling II" Walker

I FOLLOWED THE MODERN PERFORMERS IN U.S/CANADA CANDIDATES

Ivan Koloff

Ken Patera

Rock & Roll Express (Ricky Morton & Robert Gibson)

I FOLLOWED WRESTLING IN JAPAN CANDIDATES

Volk Han

Minoru Suzuki

Kiyoshi Tamura

I FOLLOWED WRESTLING IN MEXICO CANDIDATES

ABSTAIN

I FOLLOWED WRESTLING IN EUROPE CANDIDATES

ABSTAIN

I FOLLOWED WRESTLING IN AUSTRALIA/PACIFIC ISLANDS/CARIBBEAN/AFRICA CANDIDATES

ABSTAIN

NON-WRESTLERS

Jim Crockett Jr.

Jerry Jarrett

Gorilla Monsoon

George Scott

[victory]

What's been the overall consensus or knock for the RNR Express not being in the HOF yet?

[W2BTD]

What's been the overall consensus or knock for the RNR Express not being in the HOF yet?

 

Ricky Morton not knowing the proper name for the O'Connor Roll.

 

At least in the case of Colt Cabana.

[shoe]

 

 

What's been the overall consensus or knock for the RNR Express not being in the HOF yet?

Ricky Morton not knowing the proper name for the O'Connor Roll.

 

At least in the case of Colt Cabana.

Actually it was Robert Gibson according to Cabana.

[Al]

The 15 year eligibility thing seems a bit haphazard. The way wrestling works, it's possible for a wrestler to become ineligible before he even retires.

[KrisZ]

One of the knocks on RnR were that they weren't "draws" which is ridiculous because they headlined a lot during the JCP heyday and drew big houses.

 

Also another knock is that Morton is a HOF guy but Gibson isn't so he drags Morton down.

[Matt D]

They popped Mid-South too, no?

 

That's not just a myth right?

[NintendoLogic]

Here's what Meltzer wrote about the R&R's HOF candidacies back in 2009:

 

 

Strengths: Top babyface tag team during the high point of both Bill Watts’ and Jim Crockett’s promotion. Although the Fabulous Ones were really the ones that sparked the genre in Memphis, it was the success of the Rock & Roll Express in 1984 in Mid South that caused numerous territories to come up with copies. While the gimmick made them stars, Morton is lauded as one of the great workers of his era, who turned the babyface in peril role into an art form. Not the top, but one of the stronger drawing tag teams in history and in their heyday had consistently good matches with anyone, and great matches when given top heel workers. For years, Rock & Roll Express vs. Midnight Express tapes were used to teach younger wrestlers how to work a tag team match.

Weaknesses: While the two started teaming in 1983, and still team on occasion on the independent scene, the reality was they were the kind of an act that would be super hot for a year or two in a territory and start to burn out, similar to a teen heartthrob. They were together a long time, but longevity at the big-time level was relatively short, one year with Watts and a couple of years with Crockett. While they carried Smoky Mountain Wrestling for two years in the 90s, that was a small promotion. Their act was better for the territorial era where they probably would have been a hot act everywhere they went for years, and then could double back later in their career. They had the working ability and the influence, were draws, but the longevity as a top act is their main stumbling block. Some argue that because they were around during JCP’s national television era, they are remembered as the best babyface team, but arguments are they were never hotter nor lasted as long on top as Ricky Steamboat & Jay Youngblood.