El Satanico

[elliott]

I would highly recommend fans of the 80s lucha set check out this new match from dataintcash

 

El Satanio/Perro Aguayo/Fishman vs Villano III/RIngo Mendoza/Jalisco

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wU0DRaG2LSQ

 

 

Depending on when in 1983 it happened, it is possibly Satanico's earliest match on tape and it is really good. It is mostly about Perro vs Ringo but Satanico and Villano III pair up and look really good together. A little slow building but it really picks up and by the end I was like "yeah, this fucking rocks!" Satanico is almost working in the MS-1 role to Perro's Satanico in an Infernale lineup. He adds a shit ton to the match but definitely allows the focus to be on Perro vs Ringo. Fishman looks perfectly acceptable in this too running around and stiffing people. Would have been a no brainer to make the 80s set if it was circulating. Satanico vs Villano III is an absolute dream match for me now. So is Ringo vs Perro in the 80s for that matter. I have no opinion on Jalisco.

[Boss Rock]

As someone who's still getting his feet wet with classic lucha libre, Satanico is a guy who really stands out to me. Fantastic brawler when the match called for it, probably one of the best ever. The aspuestas match with Dandy in particular stands out when it comes to Satanico as a brawler and is one of the best matches I've ever seen. That's not to say he was a slouch in any other department, though. I prefer him as a brawler but he was a very good mat worker as well. Heck, I found a match between him and Dandy from 2014 that featured great mat work and submissions.

[Boss Rock]

While I would probably rate Casas higher due to longevity and versatility, Satanico has the highest peaks of any luchador I've seen. The El Dandy feud is my favorite Lucha series with the December 1990 match being one of my all-time favorites. Also love his stuff with Morgan and the brawl he had with a young Atlantis. And while I said Casas probably surpasses him in longevity, there are quite a few late 90's-early 00's Satanico matches I like. Very strong top 25 candidate.

[overbooked]

A serious Top Ten contender for me. All-time great brawler, amazing with schtick, the kind of rudo you can hate so much you wind up loving him, wonderful matches with the likes of Dandy and Morgan, incredible longevity from the first early 80s footage to that early 2000s run where he was one of the best workers in the world, and most importantly the absolute master of low blow psychology.

[Makai Club #1]

My #1 Luchador. Sensational wrestler. His peaks are among the best Lucha has to offer. And I haven't gotten around to watching the El Dandy match that everyone raves about yet. I'm not sure where I'll rank him but it's going to be high. 

[elliott]

6 minutes ago, Makai Club #1 said:

My #1 Luchador. Sensational wrestler. His peaks are among the best Lucha has to offer. And I haven't gotten around to watching the El Dandy match that everyone raves about yet. I'm not sure where I'll rank him but it's going to be high. 

Which one? 

[Makai Club #1]

2 minutes ago, elliott said:

Which one? 

I knew this was coming as they are all well regarded. I mean the Dec 1990 match. I watched the Super Libre match that they had already. I've been putting off watching this one . 

[elliott]

Ok I wanted to make sure you weren't skipping the Super Libre one. Give the 1991 match a shot as well. Its a bit of a letdown compared to the two from 1990, but on its own I recall liking it a lot. 

[Boss Rock]

Definitely watch the first 1990 match before the December one.

[ohtani's jacket]

I thought Satanico was going to bow out on that amazing 2001 cage match, but every single performance I've seen from 2002 is excellent. His 2002 has actually been better than his 2001 so far. He's not the main guy in any of his matches, but he's outstanding in a secondary or third role, which is a tough role to nail. 

[DylanZero]

16 minutes ago, ohtani's jacket said:

I thought Satanico was going to bow out on that amazing 2001 cage match, but every single performance I've seen from 2002 is excellent. His 2002 has actually been better than his 2001 so far. He's not the main guy in any of his matches, but he's outstanding in a secondary or third role, which is a tough role to nail. 

I love that whole rivalry. Set the stage for a legendary team in Rey Bucanero and UG and I completely agree with this assessment of Satánico's role in this feud as the secondary guy who is perfect for it. Great performances and great in a way that made literally everyone else involved look better and bringing them up to his level rather than outshining on everyone and making himself the big star like many others would have.

 

He's an all time great. I won't say he's my #1 Luchador but he's in my top 5 all time.

[elliott]

I ranked Satanico 2nd in 2016. Feel great about that. I've probably said enough about Satanico

[KB8]

I had Satanico at number 5 in 2016 and he'll be right around there again in 2026. A word or two has been written about Satanico in this thread already so there's no point in me echoing it, but I want to reiterate just how great Satanico was at portraying the aura of the baddest motherfucker on the planet. I can't think of anybody in history who more believably comes across as a war leader; the sort of commander-in-chief who's out there coordinating beatdowns on the battlefield, who you buy unquestionably as someone whose teammates would follow into hell and back. And he backed it up every time, whether he was brawling or grappling, a rudo or a tecnico. One of the all-time great actors in wrestling. He was my #2 luchador the first time around and I don't see him falling short of that the next time. 

 

EL SATANICO YOU SHOULD WATCH:

v Sangre Chicana (UWA, 9/24/83)

w/MS-1 & Espectro Jr. v Sangre Chicana, Mocho Cota & La Fiera (EMLL, 9/30/83)

v Atlantis (EMLL, 1/20/84)

v Shiro Koshinaka (EMLL, 7/30/84)

w/Espectro Jr. v La Fiera & El Faraon (EMLL, 8/12/84)

v Gran Cochisse (EMLL, 9/14/84)

v Super Astro (EMLL, 10/26/84)

w/Pirata Morgan & MS-1 v El Egipcio, El Faraon & La Fiera (EMLL, 3/29/85)

v Sangre Chicana (EMLL, 5/26/89)

w/El Dandy v MS-1 & Masakre (EMLL, 8/11/89)

w/Salomon Grundy & Super Astro v Jerry Estrada, Pirata Morgan & Emilio Charles Jr. (CMLL, 3/11/90)

v Jerry Estrada (CMLL, 3/23/90)

w/Sangre Chicana, Fabuloso Blondy v Perro Aguayo, Lizmark & Ringo Mendoza (CMLL, 6/8/90)

w/Perro Aguayo & Kung Fu v El Dandy, Atlantis & Ringo Mendoza (CMLL, 10/21/90)

v El Dandy (CMLL, 10/26/90)

w/MS-1 & Fabuloso Blondy v El Dandy, Sangre Chicana & Ringo Mendoza (CMLL, 11/16/90)

v El Dandy (CMLL, 12/14/90)

w/Pirata Morgan & MS-1 v Los Brazos (CMLL, 11/22/91)

v Pierroth Jr. (CMLL, 92/93?) 

v Pirata Morgan (AAA, 11/26/93)

w/Ultimo Guerrero & Rey Bucanero v Tarzan Boy, Antifaz del Norte & Felino (CMLL, 1/21/00)

v Tarzan Boy (CMLL, 2/25/00)

w/Averno & Mephisto v Ultimo Guerrero, Tarzan Boy, Rey Bucanero & Mascara Magica (CMLL, 9/28/01)

v Blue Panther (Caralucha, 7/25/15)

v Hechicero (Lucha Memes, 2/5/18)

[Rah]

On 4/22/2021 at 4:25 AM, ohtani's jacket said:

I thought Satanico was going to bow out on that amazing 2001 cage match, but every single performance I've seen from 2002 is excellent. His 2002 has actually been better than his 2001 so far. He's not the main guy in any of his matches, but he's outstanding in a secondary or third role, which is a tough role to nail. 

 

On 4/20/2021 at 4:05 PM, Boss Rock said:

While I would probably rate Casas higher due to longevity and versatility, Satanico has the highest peaks of any luchador I've seen. The El Dandy feud is my favorite Lucha series with the December 1990 match being one of my all-time favorites. Also love his stuff with Morgan and the brawl he had with a young Atlantis. And while I said Casas probably surpasses him in longevity, there are quite a few late 90's-early 00's Satanico matches I like. Very strong top 25 candidate.

Have you watched his latest run from the last few years? 

There's the Dandy feud which is, of course, a step below their classics but still nostalgically good and a Sangre Chicana hair match. The latter is sad to see how Sangre's body isn't holding up any more but Satanico is a master at keeping it all together.

[Boss Rock]

I honestly didn't know he was still an active wrestler. Although I did see a match between him and Dandy a few years ago that I liked.

I'll see if I can find the Chicana match.

[Rah]

It's here 

He's almost full time at this point. The highlights: there's a couple matches vs Solar, a Virus match and then against Hechicero. I'm still trying to find the latter two, though.

[Boss Rock]

Awesome, thanks!

[Microstatistics]

I was the co-high vote on Satanico at #2 in 2016 and am proud of it. There is a decent chance he'll again end up somewhere around there. At the very least, he's a Top 10 lock. Footage limitations could make the difference when I have to split hairs. Anyway,  healthy number of great matches, best brawler ever, maybe the best punches ever, effective rudo and technico, world-class mat-worker, great seller etc. 

He is also a guy I'm struggling to find valid criticisms for. I've pointed out weaknesses of my other Top 10 guys, be it Kobashi or Santo or HBK, or even Fujiwara and Tamura (albeit to a lesser extent), but Satanico seems to have all bases covered. Maybe a stronger aerial game (though I've seen him bust out impressive dives) or more high impact offense? 

[cad]

Couple of months back I got curious and checked out a Satanico match for the first time in years, thinking maybe I'd gotten past my disdain for the guy. It was the December 1995 hair match with Hector Garza, one I'd never read anything about. Garza got to win clean, not something that you see often against Satanico, but what a price to pay. The moves that he used to win each fall were literally his only offense in the whole match. I thought that Satanico vs Octagon from 1991 was the ultimate example of halfassing a job. Unbelievable that he found a way to top it. Another Satanico classic.

[ohtani's jacket]

Lately, I've been able to reconcile how washed up Satanico looks in '94-95 with the beginning of a very promising program against Damian 666 in 2002. I am pretty sure the eventual singles matches between Satanico and Damian won't match his classic stuff from the past, but I'm glad he's finally getting a showcase run in '02 and the feud as a whole interests me. Not sure what was going on in '94-95. Was he uninspired with his role in the company? Was it something to do with his jump to AAA? 

[cad]

Okay. So at some point Satanico emerged as an alternative to Santo/Casas as the best Mexican worker, and you could probably say that it's a push that presents him as the thinking man's number one candidate. It's nice that lucha discussion can move beyond the same two guys jockeying for the top rank, but I'm not sure how much serious analysis has been done of his case, not just the good but also the bad. It's not as his career left no opportunity for criticism. Satanico has some dogs and some disappointments to his name, but you don't really see any attempts to understand what those poor performances say about him. Usually it's just something like the booking was all wrong, or the opponent must have been a bum, which are easy answers that won't do anything to interrupt the narrative of Satanico as the GOAT. Ric Flair got stick here for an inconsequential match with George South that was too good. Satanico tanked a high profile hair match with Hector Garza and no one cares.

My personal opinion of Satanico is that he was great in the mid-1980s. Against Atlantis he was a genius, switching from bully to coward on a dime, multiple times over, taking the match wherever he wanted and making his raw opponent look like a future star to be reckoned with while still keeping him as the underdog the whole way. That Satanico I can imagine bringing the best out of anyone he faced on the roster. In the '90s, though, I can't see it. His individual performances didn't change that much. He still made the same faces and still pounded his chest, so I can see fans still loving it, but he wasn't really going out there with the mindset of making his guy look as good as possible, which to me is a key quality for a rudo to have. Satanico vs Garza or Satanico vs Octagon could have been comparable to Satanico vs Atlantis, he just wasn't interested. Even against good workers I don't see him as anyone's top matchup. I realize that opinion is an outlier to an extent, so I don't expect to convince anyone of anything, but at the same time I don't think I'm wrong to wonder why some of his outright poor performances have gone largely unquestioned.

I'm not the guy to go to for excellent Satanico performances, but I liked these:
Satanico vs Atlantis
Satanico, Ulises and Universo 2000 vs Dandy, Sangre Chicana and Atlantis
Satanico, Mano Negra and Felino vs Atlantis, Pantera and Ciclon Ramirez (no classic, but I liked his matchup with Pantera)
Satanico vs Lizmark (this is my favorite '90s Satanico match, for whatever that's worth)

[ohtani's jacket]

Half the battle with lucha is to get people to watch the good stuff, which is why you don't get a balanced critique of the workers. Satanico is not alone in this respect, and neither is lucha. His matches would have to be watched by a lot more people to get the type of critiques that other top flight candidates get. Satanico was very much a case of a handful of us saying: "Satanico's one of the all-time greats!" Not everyone agreed with us. I know of a few people who weren't big fans of his. That's all right. We should be at a place with lucha where there's enough great workers that folks can like different guys. I especially welcome the idea of folks having different ideas about who the best rudos were.

Satanico had some rough patches in his career, and some lean times performance-wise. To be perfectly honest, I don't really care that the Octagon or Garza matches aren't good. It would be nice if they were great matches, but I'm not about to change my opinion about Satanico because he didn't carry Octagon the way Fuerza did. You could probably argue that he was unprofessional in that match, but it's no skin off my nose. I'm more frustrated by matches between good workers that don't reach their potential  than a match like Octagon vs. Satanico. I don't really care enough about Garza to be offended by Satanico's performance. I guess he could have done more to get Garza over, but I have no idea bout the story behind it. He certainly redeemed himself in my eyes by helping to get Tarzan Boy, Rey and Ultimo over.