Andre the Giant

[Mr JMML]

He is one of the best bigs in wrestling history along with Aja and Vader. He is also a great hub.

[elliott]

On 5/30/2023 at 4:29 PM, fxnj said:

It's not going to be much of a controversial opinion to say Andre was awesome in Japan, but holy shit was he awesome in Japan. It's mindblowing to revisit his late-70's and early-80's NJPW stuff every few years and see just how much he'd mastered the art of working as a big man. Even cooler now that we have that added context of his time with 60's French catch and how he developed that style into his own thing.

I dare anyone to find a better worked squash match than this. Everything is on point between the character work, the creativity, the execution, and the comedic timing.

https://archive.org/details/njpw-misc-tv-sky-a-samurai-classics-1978-1980-60fps/1979.05.25a-NJPW-Handicap+Match-Andre+the+Giant+VS+Osamu+Kido+%26+Haruka+Eigen.mp4

Also, the re-evaluation of his time in 90's AJPW as a strong way to close out his career and the new handheld matches that have come out has been my favorite new movement in 90's AJPW these past few years. The Misawa/Kawada tag was already a bit of revelation and a great match for Andre's limitations, but the Jumbo/Taue tag is just a great match full stop without any "for his limitations" qualifier needed. 

 

This is a tremendous match.

Andre has the range, variety, peak, & longevity of a bonafide #1 candidate 

[Mr JMML]

I don't see him going outside the top 20 in 2026.

[elliott]

I have him penciled in at 4. The Andre vs Lawler for #3 is something i'll think a lot about over the course of this project. 

[Mr JMML]

I love how highly regarded he is in this forum.

On 6/2/2023 at 4:48 AM, elliott said:

I have him penciled in at 4. The Andre vs Lawler for #3 is something i'll think a lot about over the course of this project. 

 

[bustedquad]

If you asked me two years ago, maybe even last year, I dont think I would’ve considered Andre for my ballot. But just around this time two years ago, I watched the 1989 Royal Rumble. And Andre, while mostly immobile at that point, put on just a masterclass of working that night, doing most of it from the corner or while holding on to the ropes. It was the best “defensive Giant”, if you will, role I’ve ever seen in a battle royal. It really opened me up to further examining some of his work, and finally digging deeper into his work in Japan and elsewhere. Obviously, missing footage from what his apparent true prime may have been is a detriment, but I feel pretty safe filling in the blanks based on the things I’ve seen otherwise. I think at this point, with weeks to go, Andre’s a lock for somewhere towards the bottom of my 100. 

[Grimmas]

17 hours ago, bustedquad said:

If you asked me two years ago, maybe even last year, I dont think I would’ve considered Andre for my ballot. But just around this time two years ago, I watched the 1989 Royal Rumble. And Andre, while mostly immobile at that point, put on just a masterclass of working that night, doing most of it from the corner or while holding on to the ropes. It was the best “defensive Giant”, if you will, role I’ve ever seen in a battle royal. It really opened me up to further examining some of his work, and finally digging deeper into his work in Japan and elsewhere. Obviously, missing footage from what his apparent true prime may have been is a detriment, but I feel pretty safe filling in the blanks based on the things I’ve seen otherwise. I think at this point, with weeks to go, Andre’s a lock for somewhere towards the bottom of my 100. 

I love late 1980s Andre the Giant! He can't move, but is one of the smartest workers around.

[El McKell]

I really don't get late 80s Andre. If he does a singles match over 5 minutes he has to spend large swathes of the match with dull stalling or being annoyed at the crowd booing him or whatever because he can't do five minutes worth of wrestling (see the Bret match in '89 and the JYD match in '88).

In the '89 Rumble example busted quad gave, I do think the first 15 minutes built around him is entertaining, so I'll give him some credit but I don't think he actually does anything particularly good. It works more because he's huge and over and the rumble formula works than because of anything Andre is doing. If you enjoy the first 15 minutes of that match it's easy to credit Andre, because he's the focus of everything that happens. But I really believe you could put any of the other performer's brains into Andre's body and they would have done just as well. 

He is a fairly smart worker but I think it gets overblown by some people here. He knows what to do to make sure things don't fall apart in matches when he is very physically limited. But I think 1. most of those matches aren't actually very good and 2. His mental understanding of wrestling might be the 3rd most important factor in the trio of factors that manage to prevent a man who can't move from having consistently awful matches (that trio of factors being: He's enormous, He's over as fuck already, He understands how to work with his limitations)

[Mantaur Rodeo Clown]

2 hours ago, El McKell said:

I really don't get late 80s Andre. If he does a singles match over 5 minutes he has to spend large swathes of the match with dull stalling or being annoyed at the crowd booing him or whatever because he can't do five minutes worth of wrestling (see the Bret match in '89 and the JYD match in '88).

In the '89 Rumble example busted quad gave, I do think the first 15 minutes built around him is entertaining, so I'll give him some credit but I don't think he actually does anything particularly good. It works more because he's huge and over and the rumble formula works than because of anything Andre is doing. If you enjoy the first 15 minutes of that match it's easy to credit Andre, because he's the focus of everything that happens. But I really believe you could put any of the other performer's brains into Andre's body and they would have done just as well. 

He is a fairly smart worker but I think it gets overblown by some people here. He knows what to do to make sure things don't fall apart in matches when he is very physically limited. But I think 1. most of those matches aren't actually very good and 2. His mental understanding of wrestling might be the 3rd most important factor in the trio of factors that manage to prevent a man who can't move from having consistently awful matches (that trio of factors being: He's enormous, He's over as fuck already, He understands how to work with his limitations)

This. We're giving the guy credit for being so good despite his limitations. Are we giving Hornswoggle the same benefit then? Kerry Von Erich should be a shoe-in for top 3 considering his limitations post-accident. Just because the matches are good in the circumstances doesn't mean Andre's matches aren't objectively much worse than when he was mobile, and don't aggressively rely on your suspension of disbelief for when he falls into the ropes and gets tangled for the 80th time because he needs to sit down, or needs to rest on someone in the corner for five minutes. Oh he's standing there again doing the spot where he chokes someone with his singlet strap in full view of the referee, because he can't bump anymore. If you're watching it without the foreknowledge that his body is deteriorating rapidly, it just looks like a you're watching a slow, lazy worker.

I'm not saying he wasn't a decent worker by late 80s standards, but people are giving him far too much credit simply because he was Andre, he was over from years of having actually good match, and they very much want to like him.

[highflyflow]

Andre’s great, just a complete force of nature at his best. Everybody points to the Hansen match and rightfully so, but I honestly might think the Killer Khan match a year later. One of the best wounded bear performances I’ve ever seen in that one. Will probably make my ballot in the back half

[Grimmas]

I don't like people implying they know others motivations for our tastes. That's odd.

I'd watch an Andre singles match from the late 1980s over so many wrestlers people say they love any day of the week.

[highflyflow]

6 hours ago, Grimmas said:

I don't like people implying they know others motivations for our tastes. That's odd.

Funny how this keeps happening with the same person over 5 different threads!

[bustedquad]

I mean look, I’m not saying late 80’s Andre is some super worker. I used the Rumble performance as an example because it’s a fun bit during a time where he didn’t have many of those. But as I stated, I’ve also gone and watched a lot of other Andre that’s available where his limitations weren’t as much, and he is great, by my standards at least. The Khan and Hansen matches as others stated, some of the Inoki matches, earlier Hogan bouts (I even think WM3’s match gets overhated). He’s also got great stuff in the 70’s against guys like the Spoiler and Harley. He was a smart worker long before his limitations hindered him as much as they did at the end. I think trying to compare that to Hornswoggle as some sort of “gotcha” is ridiculous but hey to each their own.