Mocho Cota

[soup23]

Thanks Alex for the upload.

 

I loved the match. I think the final comeback can look too rushed given the king sized beat down that came before but Casas did get some glimpses before and pulled out the heavy arterilly including butting cota and fouling him. The leg work and selling done here was fabulous. The more casas I watch the more I ponder how high on my top 100 he should go. Finish dips this below motyc level but it still around **** 1/4 for me and I comp it to something like Owens vs cena

[ohtani's jacket]

I'll do a full write up later, but it wasn't my cup of tea. I appreciate what Alex says about them going in a different direction but they left me at the station. Thanks for the upload, though!

[alexoblivion]

Soup23, that's interesting that you compared it to Cena/Owens as I seem to recall a minor debate on whether it was smartly worked or not, and I've made the claim that Cota/Casas was smartly worked. I look forward to reading your thoughts OJ.

[JRGoldman]

I liked this match a great deal, and I think that a lot of the underwhelming feelings surrounding it are due to the fact that it wasn't best of three falls. I mean, the structure of the match is basically the same as it would be had it been 2/3, but without a third fall. I really love Casas comeback and I'm not sure I agree with Matt's "stilted" criticism, but the end of the match and the single fall really felt as though it was actually Casas tying it up and we were going to get a third fall to see who the real winner is.

[Matt D]

I'll watch it again soon. I'm shooting for a full write up on Weds. I wonder why they didn't go 2/3 falls. I saw another CMLL single fall hair match recently too. I think it was Satanico vs Damien or someone from the early 00s.

[alexoblivion]

I was wondering the same thing. I think it may be because they ran three more hair matches that week, and may have been saving the 2/3 for Santana/Texano, as Scorpio/Silver King was only one fall as well, though Im not sure about MS-1/Morgan

[Matt D]

Watched it again more closely this time and I think I underrated it. It's a little bit tricky actually. I underrated it because I was so into it. I was really into Casas' selling and Cota's dickishness, and I really wanted Casas to unload on him more. I wanted him to get a chance to beat the crap out of Cota, like we saw in, let's say MS1 vs Sangre Chicana. I wanted him to hit that massive punch and just viscerally get back at him for what he did to him the whole match.

 

And that doesn't happen. I wanted a different story than what they ultimately gave me, but the story that they did give me was good. Every little bit of offense that Casas gets in the back half of the match (really the whole match) is desperate and earned. Cota spends the whole match cutting him off, to the point that the idea of Casas really hitting a move is built up to the extent that when he does, that's it.

 

I think if they went a little bit further towards what I thought I wanted, it wouldn't have been enough, but since they didn't go that way at all, it actually works.

 

My head really enjoyed it but it wasn't what my heart ultimately wanted very much because the way they built the first 90% of the match.

[ohtani's jacket]

Long, rambling, overwrought, nit-picky, non-proof read review here -- http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/blog/8/entry-463-vintage-negro-casas-of-the-day-18/

[Matt D]

Ha, I'm rubbing off. Sorry.

 

For those who don't look at SC often, my write up is here, for what it's worth. We agree on the most key points, I think, but disagree on others, as one would expect, knowing you and knowing me.

[Badlittlekitten]

. . . ah-haa!

[alexoblivion]

It wasn't really something I had thought about before, but in OJ's review of Cota/Casas he mentioned there were no seconds in their match, but I actually don't think CMLL was using seconds in 1994, as there are quite a few single matches without them.

[Gregor]

Dandy vs. Llanes and Jaque Mate vs. Hijo del Solitario both had seconds, but those were title matches. The policy on seconds for non-title singles matches in that era has never been clear to me, as it seems like they'd just use them whenever it was convenient. Even before 1994 you get stuff like Pierroth vs. Supremo (December 1992) having seconds, Felino vs. Ciclon Ramirez (July 1993) going without them, and Atlantis vs. Mano Negra (October 1993) having them. For hair matches, Negro Casas vs. Fiera (October 1993, same show as Atlantis vs. Mano Negra) doesn't have them, but Dandy vs. Emilio Charles (October 1993) does. AAA was the same way. I don't know if there was some bizarre commission rule that covered all this and explained which matches get seconds or if it was as random as it appears.

[alexoblivion]

Thanks for that information gregor. I had never really noticed how many apuesta matches in 94 didn't have seconds. Can anyone think of a particular apuesta match in cmll in 94 that has seconds? Offhand I can only recall the ones that don't.

[alexoblivion]

Wasn't sure where else to post this, but I completely spaced out that I asked Konnan about Cota and Fiera during his Reddit AMA before Triple Mania. I checked today and was happy to see that he actually replied. Answer will probably affirm the already known or assumed for many, but I have to admit any other answer would have been disappointing.

 

Well lets just say he ended up in jail in Nogales..i went to visit him and he ran the place..super cool dude...and always kept it 100..La Fiera one of the best wrestlers i have ever seen..he hung out alot with Mocho and Jerry Estrada, they were always in strip clubs, bars, they played extremely hard but could bring it in the ring

[Matt D]

Past the hope that some secret footage might pop up someday, there is absolutely nothing disappointing about any of that.

[cowboy hats]

Long, rambling, overwrought, nit-picky, non-proof read review here -- http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/blog/8/entry-463-vintage-negro-casas-of-the-day-18/

Using the GWE honorable mention list as a jumping off point to watch random matches of guys I've never seen (which is...pretty much all non-NA sport entertainers). I just watched this match (now on youtube) and was looking for something exactly like this write-up, so thank you. I wanted context and am shocked this was a hair match. Cota was an entertaining dick, but that finish came out of nowhere. The whole thing would have worked so much better with more falls, and I say that viewing this in a complete vacuum.

[bennyowens]

Cota is one of the wrestlers who's career I am currently digging into, having paused my watch through of the 80s lucha set after discovering how much I loved his work! I always have a soft spot for wrestlers who work a rugged grappling style so it was a real treat to find someone who is right in my wheelhouse, and some of the stuff he was doing in those Americo Rocca matches still seems innovative decades later.

I watched what I could find of the Negro Casas feud and was surprised how different his style was, but was absolutely enamored with what a king sized dirtbag he is in that feud. One little thing I always appreciate in wrestlers is when they are able to get their character across while stood on the apron in a tag match, and on that criteria he's probably a number 1 candidate!

Obviously I have a lot more footage I need to watch of his before I decide if he gets a place on my list, but he's someone I'm very excited to do the work for.

[Matt D]

There's a headhunters tag, but this is the big new piece of Cota footage we've gotten if I'm not mistaken:

 

[alexoblivion]

His short AAA run in 93 is worth watching as his back isn't fucked yet and watching him massacre Latin Lover is endlessly entertaining. One thing worth mentioning is the Cota of 93/94 is a lot different than the Cota of 95/96. Assume this is because of the back injury and being moved down the card.

[elliott]

I ranked Mocho Cota 93rd in 2016. And I blew it with that one. I always kind of positioned myself more in the middle of the peak vs longevity argument, but I've really come to value peak. And at his best, few people were more interesting than Mocho Cota. Definitely need to see more of his 90s stuff, but I feel like if he doesn't make it its more a failure on me than it is on him hahahaha. 

[KB8]

I had Cota at 86 in 2016 and I can see why I did that at the time, but five years down the line I definitely sold him short. Part of that is simply because I've watched more Mocho Cota footage since then. The other part is because I've watched a couple trios from 1984 this week and he's fresh in the memory. My takeaway is that, if the title matches with Americo Rocca weren't proof enough, I think it's safe to say Cota was one of the best wrestlers on the planet in 1984. The trio of him, Chicana and Fiera is just god tier scumbaggery and in one of the matches Cota turned in an absolutely sensational stooge performance. This was Fuerza levels of dedication to being an irredeemable prick, and if anything he leaned even further into it than Fuerza would have. The tag with Silver King v Casas and Dandy mentioned in this thread isn't an amazing match, but it's an amazing shithead Cota performance and it made me want to see every second of him and Casas matching up (I still haven't actually watched the hair match yet). Every new piece of Mocho Cota footage I come across is a treasure just because I get to see him work. 

 

MOCHO COTA YOU SHOULD WATCH:

w/Sangre Chicana & La Fiera v MS-1, Satanico & Espectro Jr. (EMLL, 9/30/83)

v Americo Rocca (EMLL, 1/27/84)

v Americo Rocca (EMLL, 2/3/84)

w/Fishman & Tony Bennetto v Gran Cochisse, Villano III & Rayo de Jalisco Jr. (EMLL, 11/30/84)

w/Sangre Chicana & La Fiera v Cien Caras, Rayo de Jalisco Jr. & Atlantis (EMLL, 1984)

[Rah]

On 4/14/2021 at 7:50 PM, Matt D said:

There's a headhunters tag, but this is the big new piece of Cota footage we've gotten if I'm not mistaken:

 

Was the Gran Cochisse/Cota apuesta available before? It's not great or anything but it's a great look into Mocho's character work.

[KB8]

The more I watch of 1994 Cota the more he looks like an all-time level rudo shithead: http://whiskeyandwrestling.blogspot.com/2021/05/sangre-chicana-of-day-2.html

I watched that for the Sangre Chicana, but Cota and Casas stole the show. Cota's ring post bump in the tercera is one of the most ridiculous ring post bumps you'll see. A wonderful performance. 

[cad]

I am of two minds about Cota, especially his comeback. He looks like a legend in the 1980s. In the '90s he has matches, especially when he first gets back, that he outright dominates with personality alone. He could also shrink and seem ordinary or just plain washed up. alexoblivion alluded to it above, but by the second half of the decade he was just some undercard guy. How does charisma disappear like that? The Casas feud is disappointing from both men. But in the same period he also gets the fans, even the dudes, cheering on unproven pretty boy stripper Latin Lover, just because they want to see Cota get destroyed. He even compels Blue Demon Jr. to show real human emotion once. I'm not sure if I've seen another match in which Demon looked like he hated or even cared that much about his opponent. So there's part of me that wonders if Cota would get as much attention with ten fingers and a clean rap sheet, and there's also part of me that sees him as one of the most singular personalities in the history of the game.

Look at this, will you:
Cota, Fiera and Sangre Chicana vs Atlantis, Rayo Jr. and Cien Caras (interestingly, you can see before the match that he still wrote with his right hand)
Cota, Satanico and Fishman vs Lizmark, Latin Lover and Rayo Jr.
Cota, Sangre Chicana and Bestia Salvaje vs Ringo Mendoza, Mascara Magica and Blue Demon Jr. (Mocho Cota's Impossible Dream)
 

[Matt D]

11 hours ago, cad said:

The Casas feud is disappointing from both men

Have you seen the 3/27/94 match?