[SPLIT TOPIC] Today's wrestling vs wrestling from the past (From Lawler GWE thread)

[W2BTD]

 

 

 

Bryan had only been a main event ace for a couple months before he got injured, but you could take out him and Punk and add Austin Aries, Sami Callihan and Sheamus.

Okay great, let's go ten more names then ...

 

Greg Valentine

Tito Santana

Terry Gordy

Jim Brunzell

Ron Garvin

Paul Orndorff

Ken Patera

Dennis Condrey

Manny Fernandez

Adrian Adonis

 

Let's keep going with this till you start feeling like one of us is reaching.

This is going to end up being pointless, though, because of course if you're combing the territories, with more than 20 years of perspective, you're going to find more good workers. The other side is handicapped by the fact a lot of indie stars are still establishing what they are and how good they might be.

 

Again, I'm not so much interested in arguing that the modern indies are as fertile as the territories. I just think it's wrong to imply they're infertile or not producing a good cross-section of workers.

Sure, I have no beef with that and accept that they aren't totally infertile.

 

But this line of argument started with Joe making a much more grandiose claim about there being more exceptional workers now than 20, 30, 40 years ago. This is demonstrably untrue and it's all I wanted to show. I'll admit that the way I put it might have been a bit bigoted, but Joe seems to rile me up more than most.

 

In a bit I have a slightly different avenue to explore for this thread, but need to get back home to make the post.

 

 

The "give me a guy who compares to these guys" thing just isn't going to work. For starters, I think about half of those guys aren't particularly good. That's just going to annoy you right from the jump. Bell to bell, I'd take nearly the entire ROH roster over half of those names. I understand that likely sounds mental to you, but much of that list is instant FF material for me when I watch tapes.

 

I think the WWE roster is miles (MILES) better than it ever has been, right now this second. The current New Japan roster is one of the greatest rosters of all time, particularly at the top. You don't get the garbage filler on a major league show these days like you often got on shows 30 years ago, because the standards are higher. WWE will not even employ a Chief Jay Strongbow or Dominic DeNucci today, let alone push one beyond maybe a comedy or grandfathered role at best.

 

You mentioned Pez Whately earlier. He couldnt get past TV jobber in WWF in the 80's, how do you think he's fare in 2014 on such a stacked roster? Sami Zayn is top five on Earth and cant get on TV. Sami Callihan cant get on developmental TV! If you put Pez f'n Whatley in a time machine, he wouldn't get booked on a decent indie today.

 

Brother, you like old wrestling, and you think all of those guys are fantastic. Great. You like what you like, you are entitled to your opinions, and that's cool. But I can't you seriously in this discussion when you readily admit you don't watch modern wrestling or go to indie shows. There are indie wrestlers who would blow your mind, man. And not even the same guys I like. Trust me.

 

There is no shortage of talent in wrestling. There is a shortage of fans. There is a shortage of full time jobs.

[JerryvonKramer]

Recommend me some matches and I'll watch and review them. That's a promise.

[rovert]

 

GENERALLY speaking the PWO and DVDR's perception of modern Indy Wrestling seems to begin and end with DaveyRichards.gif .

 

This isn't helpful either, because it's a huge generalization and untrue. The GOAT nomination thread is already full of guys who made their bones on the recent indy scene.

 

 

They are mostly bizarre nonsense picks like Jimmy Jacobs though. Who despite being in a prominent faction in nearly every Indy promotion in North America never has matches that anyone in realistic terms talks about. Outside of the ROH Pursuit: Night 1 where Jimmy admirably busted a gut to keep up with Adam Cole I don't remember a match of his in recent memory that has gotten any kind of talk.

 

Jacobs seems like a nice guy and his character work from mid to late 00s held up really well when I rewatched it last year but come on.

 

What I said was a generalisation but it is more of an accurate one than not. DVDR was once an open minded and influential place. Now mostly it is mostly Raw watchers and shitting on Indie workers as they didn't work for Jim Crockett. Someone went full Matt D on me recently on DVDR due to me posting that Sami Zayn/El Generico is an all time great worker on the basis he has a name among fans and in the industry of legitimately never having a bad match. Realistically there's probably two matches. He is another guy who has travelled the world, learnt, adapted and got over. The poster then followed me around from thread to thread.

[Dylan Waco]

Will you be submitting a ballot/nominating people rovert or are you just here to cry about perceived injustice toward unnamed favorites?

[soup23]

 

 

GENERALLY speaking the PWO and DVDR's perception of modern Indy Wrestling seems to begin and end with DaveyRichards.gif .

 

This isn't helpful either, because it's a huge generalization and untrue. The GOAT nomination thread is already full of guys who made their bones on the recent indy scene.

 

 

They are mostly bizarre nonsense picks like Jimmy Jacobs though. Who despite being in a prominent faction in nearly every Indy promotion in North America never has matches that anyone in realistic terms talks about. Outside of the ROH Pursuit: Night 1 where Jimmy admirably busted a gut to keep up with Adam Cole I don't remember a match of his in recent memory that has gotten any kind of talk.

 

Jacobs seems like a nice guy and his character work from mid to late 00s held up really well when I rewatched it last year but come on.

 

What I said was a generalisation but it is more of an accurate one than not. DVDR was once an open minded and influential place. Now mostly it is mostly Raw watchers and shitting on Indie workers as they didn't work for Jim Crockett. Someone went full Matt D on me recently on DVDR due to me posting that Sami Zayn/El Generico is an all time great worker on the basis he has a name among fans and in the industry of legitimately never having a bad match. Realistically there's probably two matches. He is another guy who has travelled the world, learnt, adapted and got over. The poster then followed me around from thread to thread.

Who besides Jacobs and Necro Butcher (both Phil nominations) are of the more bizarre, nonsense variety. The beauty of the GOAT project is that YOU can nominate anyone as long as you have three match reviews to provide as recommendations. The onus is on you to present a guy for a case, not the other way around.

 

Secondly, in that thread, comments have been positive for Bryan in general including some possible #1 votes. Other threads have also had positive comments on the debate.

 

Excluding all of that, why claim DVDVR as not being open minded while saying that the Jacobs pick is bizarre and nonsense. Isn't that more close minded than the other indy fans from the time frame including someone like Joe who flat out said he wasn't seeking a brawl in the middle of an ROH show.

[funkdoc]

Secondly, in that thread, comments have been positive for Bryan in general including some possible #1 votes. Other threads have also had positive comments on the debate.

 

to be fair, people like bryan & punk aren't really seen as "indie" guys anymore since they made it on the biggest stage

 

i think joe & rovert are referring more to post-"peak ROH" indies, and would agree that this is a major blind spot for this site. i do see a tendency on here to assume that indie wrestling jumped the shark after punk & bryan left, with comments like "indie wrestling is so mid-2000s". there are people like bill & dylan who keep up with today's stuff, but they don't post a whole lot about it here (i know dylan does elsewhere at least) and i would really like to see them do so. not sure how feasible that is with the top 100 project though...

[concrete1992]

I tried starting a modern indie thread...it died very quickly.

[rovert]

Excluding all of that, why claim DVDVR as not being open minded while saying that the Jacobs pick is bizarre and nonsense. Isn't that more close minded than the other indy fans from the time frame including someone like Joe who flat out said he wasn't seeking a brawl in the middle of an ROH show.

Not close minded I have watched a lot of Jimmy's work over the years and most likely more of his recent work than anyone here.

 

Will you be submitting a ballot/nominating people rovert or are you just here to cry about perceived injustice toward unnamed favorites?

It isn't perceived though it is an actuality.

 

The Devitt experience along with other stuff leads me to believe that it would be a pretty pointless exercise due to the biases and close mindedness of some prominent posters. Not interested in another hounding due to be posting a well heeled or largely held opinion outside of the general PWO bubble either.

[soup23]

 

Secondly, in that thread, comments have been positive for Bryan in general including some possible #1 votes. Other threads have also had positive comments on the debate.

 

to be fair, people like bryan & punk aren't really seen as "indie" guys anymore since they made it on the biggest stage

 

i think joe & rovert are referring more to post-"peak ROH" indies, and would agree that this is a major blind spot for this site. i do see a tendency on here to assume that indie wrestling jumped the shark after punk & bryan left, with comments like "indie wrestling is so mid-2000s". there are people like bill & dylan who keep up with today's stuff, but they don't post a whole lot about it here (i know dylan does elsewhere at least) and i would really like to see them do so. not sure how feasible that is with the top 100 project though...

 

 

This still doesn't address the question though that in the confines of the Top 100 project, anyone can be nominated. If you want to present a case for someone not on the list, go for it. The "bias" of the board can't be brought to the forefront until the voting takes place from the nominated pool.

 

I really think the bias against current indies is one of the worst misconceptions. People like Parv don't watch the modern product and he admits that. In this thread, he was admonished by me and others who do watch the current product. Is the indy scene right now a period of wrestling I enjoy better than 90's All Japan 2003 IWA-MS or 80's NWA? Fuck no, but it there is a lot of good stuff and workers out there that have gotten a multitude of praise on this board including Sami Callihan, Thatcher, Briscos.

[rovert]

I tried starting a modern indie thread...it died very quickly.

It has been mocked as this lower form of Wrestling for years. I remember people mocking people like Alan4L and Rob Naylor to the point of complete dismissal for liking guys who are now really and truly informing WWE's in ring product.

[soup23]

 

Excluding all of that, why claim DVDVR as not being open minded while saying that the Jacobs pick is bizarre and nonsense. Isn't that more close minded than the other indy fans from the time frame including someone like Joe who flat out said he wasn't seeking a brawl in the middle of an ROH show.

Not close minded I have watched a lot of Jimmy's work over the years and most likely more of his recent work than anyone here.

 

Will you be submitting a ballot/nominating people rovert or are you just here to cry about perceived injustice toward unnamed favorites?

It isn't perceived though it is an actuality.

 

The Devitt experience along with other stuff leads me to believe that it would be a pretty pointless exercise due to the biases and close mindedness of some prominent posters. Not interested in another hounding due to be posting a well heeled or largely held opinion outside of the general PWO bubble either.

 

 

This was not a question of how close minded Rovert is? You made a generalization about the DVDVR board as a whole and lumped this one into it by association. Have you watched more Jimmy Jacobs matches more than me this year? Good possibility, although I have seen all of his ROH output. Saying fairly definitively you have watched more is a close minded, attitudinal stance. Beyond those confines, stating your personal habits against an statement you started against an entire community is not a verifiable defense. All I was bringing to your attention was that you lambast one choice as being bizarre and off the beaten path and then say the same source is closeminded two paragraphs later. Which is it?

[Grimmas]

No argument annoys me more than stating that this is the popular belief and if you disagree with it you are stupid.

 

I don't care what everybody else thinks, I care what I see with my own eyes or what someone else can prove to me. Back up your shit and we can have a discussion.

[rovert]

 

 

Excluding all of that, why claim DVDVR as not being open minded while saying that the Jacobs pick is bizarre and nonsense. Isn't that more close minded than the other indy fans from the time frame including someone like Joe who flat out said he wasn't seeking a brawl in the middle of an ROH show.

Not close minded I have watched a lot of Jimmy's work over the years and most likely more of his recent work than anyone here.

 

Will you be submitting a ballot/nominating people rovert or are you just here to cry about perceived injustice toward unnamed favorites?

It isn't perceived though it is an actuality.

 

The Devitt experience along with other stuff leads me to believe that it would be a pretty pointless exercise due to the biases and close mindedness of some prominent posters. Not interested in another hounding due to be posting a well heeled or largely held opinion outside of the general PWO bubble either.

 

This was not a question of how close minded Rovert is? You made a generalization about the DVDVR board as a whole and lumped this one into it by association. Have you watched more Jimmy Jacobs matches more than me this year? Good possibility, although I have seen all of his ROH output. Saying fairly definitively you have watched more is a close minded, attitudinal stance. Beyond those confines, stating your personal habits against an statement you started against an entire community is not a verifiable defense. All I was bringing to your attention was that you lambast one choice as being bizarre and off the beaten path and then say the same source is closeminded two paragraphs later. Which is it?

 

Can't it be both with Jimmy Jacobs being a rare exception?

 

I like PWO a lot and I think Greatest Wrestler Ever is good idea as it is a bit of fun and stimulates discussion on a message board. But it will be hardly held as definitive (relatively) given the points I and others have already made. It won't be the farce the WKO is but the scope in terms of the range of Wrestlers will be far more narrower than it should be. With the winner derived from an already pre-approved list of PWO favorites.

[Graham Crackers]

 

Excluding all of that, why claim DVDVR as not being open minded while saying that the Jacobs pick is bizarre and nonsense. Isn't that more close minded than the other indy fans from the time frame including someone like Joe who flat out said he wasn't seeking a brawl in the middle of an ROH show.

Not close minded I have watched a lot of Jimmy's work over the years and most likely more of his recent work than anyone here.

 

Will you be submitting a ballot/nominating people rovert or are you just here to cry about perceived injustice toward unnamed favorites?

It isn't perceived though it is an actuality.

 

The Devitt experience along with other stuff leads me to believe that it would be a pretty pointless exercise due to the biases and close mindedness of some prominent posters. Not interested in another hounding due to be posting a well heeled or largely held opinion outside of the general PWO bubble either.

 

If I'm remembering correctly: you said that Devitt was well respected but when you were asked to post your opinion of Devitt or write something about matches of his you liked you acted as if you were being attacked.

[rovert]

I don't care what everybody else thinks, I care what I see with my own eyes or what someone else can prove to me. Back up your shit and we can have a discussion.

Look at the conduct in regards to that Devitt thread in that New Japan thread - Devitt who has been the talk of the town all year since that thread happened by the week. I don't want to get into spoilers but just look at all the interest in him the past few days.

 

As concrete1992 said the modern indies thread died off quickly here.

 

JerryVonKramer need a seemingly endless of reasons to watch one match.

 

There's a problem here with perception and discussion of modern indie Wrestling whether you want to acknowledge it or not.

 

If I'm remembering correctly: you said that Devitt was well respected but when you were asked to post your opinion of Devitt or write something about matches of his you liked you acted as if you were being attacked.

You don't have to remember I posted the link and I was being attacked. My very simple statement lead to Matt D hounding me on other forums for months.

[concrete1992]

I'm still a little confused why people are already against the GOAT Project? There are CLEARLY a good chunk of people who would have Tanahashi, Michaels, Toyota and Angle high...but people would have to vote and it seems people are pre-disposed to think their favorites are already out of the running.

 

EDIT: Not arguing that the initial impression of PWO at face value is not a modern wrestling discussion haven. That is an intended generalization. Sure, there are people that watch it and enjoy it here but if I said my first impression of this board was I'm gonna chat about the helluva year Cedric Alexander is having.

[Grimmas]

 

 

 

Excluding all of that, why claim DVDVR as not being open minded while saying that the Jacobs pick is bizarre and nonsense. Isn't that more close minded than the other indy fans from the time frame including someone like Joe who flat out said he wasn't seeking a brawl in the middle of an ROH show.

Not close minded I have watched a lot of Jimmy's work over the years and most likely more of his recent work than anyone here.

 

Will you be submitting a ballot/nominating people rovert or are you just here to cry about perceived injustice toward unnamed favorites?

It isn't perceived though it is an actuality.

 

The Devitt experience along with other stuff leads me to believe that it would be a pretty pointless exercise due to the biases and close mindedness of some prominent posters. Not interested in another hounding due to be posting a well heeled or largely held opinion outside of the general PWO bubble either.

 

This was not a question of how close minded Rovert is? You made a generalization about the DVDVR board as a whole and lumped this one into it by association. Have you watched more Jimmy Jacobs matches more than me this year? Good possibility, although I have seen all of his ROH output. Saying fairly definitively you have watched more is a close minded, attitudinal stance. Beyond those confines, stating your personal habits against an statement you started against an entire community is not a verifiable defense. All I was bringing to your attention was that you lambast one choice as being bizarre and off the beaten path and then say the same source is closeminded two paragraphs later. Which is it?

 

Can't it be both with Jimmy Jacobs being a rare exception?

 

I like PWO a lot and I think Greatest Wrestler Ever is good idea as it is a bit of fun and stimulates discussion on a message board. But it will be hardly held as definitive (relatively) given the points I and others have already made. It won't be the farce the WKO is but the scope in terms of the range of Wrestlers will be far more narrower than it should be. With the winner derived from an already pre-approved list of PWO favorites.

 

We are asking for people with different views to come in and nominate and discuss. I will be reaching out to make sure nominees aren't missed. The people who should have a ballot will get one as well, whether they partake or not.

 

If you feel someone should be nominated, nominate them. Please, this project needs other views. It's not a think tank project, nor is it a cherished memories project. It's a re-evaluation project.

[soup23]

 

 

 

Excluding all of that, why claim DVDVR as not being open minded while saying that the Jacobs pick is bizarre and nonsense. Isn't that more close minded than the other indy fans from the time frame including someone like Joe who flat out said he wasn't seeking a brawl in the middle of an ROH show.

Not close minded I have watched a lot of Jimmy's work over the years and most likely more of his recent work than anyone here.

 

Will you be submitting a ballot/nominating people rovert or are you just here to cry about perceived injustice toward unnamed favorites?

It isn't perceived though it is an actuality.

 

The Devitt experience along with other stuff leads me to believe that it would be a pretty pointless exercise due to the biases and close mindedness of some prominent posters. Not interested in another hounding due to be posting a well heeled or largely held opinion outside of the general PWO bubble either.

 

This was not a question of how close minded Rovert is? You made a generalization about the DVDVR board as a whole and lumped this one into it by association. Have you watched more Jimmy Jacobs matches more than me this year? Good possibility, although I have seen all of his ROH output. Saying fairly definitively you have watched more is a close minded, attitudinal stance. Beyond those confines, stating your personal habits against an statement you started against an entire community is not a verifiable defense. All I was bringing to your attention was that you lambast one choice as being bizarre and off the beaten path and then say the same source is closeminded two paragraphs later. Which is it?

 

Can't it be both with Jimmy Jacobs being a rare exception?

 

I like PWO a lot and I think Greatest Wrestler Ever is good idea as it is a bit of fun and stimulates discussion on a message board. But it will be hardly held as definitive (relatively) given the points I and others have already made. It won't be the farce the WKO is but the scope in terms of the range of Wrestlers will be far more narrower than it should be. With the winner derived from an already pre-approved list of PWO favorites.

 

 

I don't think anyone is calling it the be all end all list but I do know Grimmas is hoping for all corners to participate to gain an eclectic vote overall. Flik voted Hayabusa #1 overall last time. Can't get more contrary than that.

 

 

 

Excluding all of that, why claim DVDVR as not being open minded while saying that the Jacobs pick is bizarre and nonsense. Isn't that more close minded than the other indy fans from the time frame including someone like Joe who flat out said he wasn't seeking a brawl in the middle of an ROH show.

Not close minded I have watched a lot of Jimmy's work over the years and most likely more of his recent work than anyone here.

 

Will you be submitting a ballot/nominating people rovert or are you just here to cry about perceived injustice toward unnamed favorites?

It isn't perceived though it is an actuality.

 

The Devitt experience along with other stuff leads me to believe that it would be a pretty pointless exercise due to the biases and close mindedness of some prominent posters. Not interested in another hounding due to be posting a well heeled or largely held opinion outside of the general PWO bubble either.

 

If I'm remembering correctly: you said that Devitt was well respected but when you were asked to post your opinion of Devitt or write something about matches of his you liked you acted as if you were being attacked.

 

The Devitt argument bothers me because no one can be the definitive source on what an opinion is on a giving individual. There is corners in the net where I get tagged in posts involving Devitt, was mocked openly on podcasts about him and got tagged in posts regarding his name change. I do enjoy his work overall and am intrigued of how he transitions to the WWE.

[JerryvonKramer]

rovert, I'll repeat:

 

Recommend me some matches and I'll watch and review them. That's a promise.

 

My preference for old wrestling is nothing to do with the quality of wrestling by the way. For all I know or care, 2013 might have been the best in-ring year of all time. It just doesn't interest me much. But for the purposes of the GOAT project, I've said I'll watch anything and give it a fair shake.

 

But I've made no secret of the fact that I like smoky arenas, old men in the front row, and all the rest of it. It's not just the in-ring stuff, it's the entire package, the whole presentation. I openly dislike modern crowds and I've said so many times. And for years I couldn't stand the WWE's turgid nu-metall-y presentation (in fairness, it has changed in the past few years). I dislike scripted promos. We need not get into this, just go and listen to a JR or Cornette rant and imagine me saying it. The only difference is that I'm not so much down on the modern stuff as openly indifferent to it.

 

I've said I'll give it a chance. I have Shield and Daniel Bryan matches on my hard drive waiting to be watched. I downloaded the entire G1 climax, but just couldn't bring myself to actually sit down and watch it. But I will at some point. And, y'know, I love suplexes so I'll probably like some of the matches more than anyone will expect. But my so-called "biases" are not just about in-ring, it's the whole deal. The "feel" of it.

[rovert]

The Devitt argument bothers me because no one can be the definitive source on what an opinion is on a giving individual. There is corners in the net where I get tagged in posts involving Devitt, was mocked openly on podcasts about him and got tagged in posts regarding his name change. I do enjoy his work overall and am intrigued of how he transitions to the WWE.

I don't mind not knowing about it/him and I could buy a North American having a blind spot but it was Will and Matt D's out of dismissal that it could even be the case that he was extremely respected.

 

No idea what a definitive source is either. But again there's a huge article in this (and soon to be last month's)Fighting Spirit Magazine all about his positive qualities. He is honestly all things to all people.

 

But this isn't about Devitt nor do I want to be redundant. It is just about the undercurrent of close mindedness and intimidation here. I know two others who aren't bothering with the Greatest Ever for that reason. Again if Jimmy Jacobs is the PWO representative of modern indies then well lol.

[Graham Crackers]

 

I don't care what everybody else thinks, I care what I see with my own eyes or what someone else can prove to me. Back up your shit and we can have a discussion.

Look at the conduct in regards to that Devitt thread in that New Japan thread - Devitt who has been the talk of the town all year since that thread happened by the week. I don't want to get into spoilers but just look at all the interest in him the past few days.

 

As concrete1992 said the modern indies thread died off quickly here.

 

JerryVonKramer need a seemingly endless of reasons to watch one match.

 

There's a problem here with perception and discussion of modern indie Wrestling whether you want to acknowledge it or not.

 

If I'm remembering correctly: you said that Devitt was well respected but when you were asked to post your opinion of Devitt or write something about matches of his you liked you acted as if you were being attacked.

You don't have to remember I posted the link and I was being attacked. My very simple statement lead to Matt D hounding me on other forums for months.

 

I'm on my phone and I'm having trouble finding the Devitt link so I'm not going to comment on whether you were or were not attacked but did you ever end up posting your personal thoughts on Devitt?

 

No, there don't appear to be many people here watching modern indy wrestling but we don't all have some issue with it. I used to love US indy wrestling but I just don't have the time to follow new stuff and I only watch the big recent shows that intrigue me. That doesn't mean that everyone here subscribes to some anti-US indy dogma. JerryVonKramer is an extreme example. He's also someone who dislikes shoot style and lucha matwork but those are things that I value and I know I'm not alone in that.

 

I was really trying to see where you were coming from but I see that it's a waste of time. You complained about your opinions and the opinions of others but apparently felt that the only way to exert the importance of your opinion was to downplay the opinions of others. I am a former WKO voter (2009 and 2010) but you have deemed that list farcical. It's different from the PWO project in that those WKO lists are a curated set of opinions but they are other people's real opinions. I'll note that back when I voted in 2009 and 2010 I watched a ton of US indy wrestling from ROH, CZW, JAPW, IWA-MS, XCW-Midwest, Chikara, and there was a lot more discussion of that stuff going on there than there is here.

[rovert]

I was really trying to see where you were coming from but I see that it's a waste of time. You complained about your opinions and the opinions of others but apparently felt that the only way to exert the importance of your opinion was to downplay the opinions of others. I am a former WKO voter (2009 and 2010) but you have deemed that list farcical. It's different from the PWO project in that those WKO lists are a curated set of opinions but they are other people's real opinions. I'll note that back when I voted in 2009 and 2010 I watched a ton of US indy wrestling from ROH, CZW, JAPW, IWA-MS, XCW-Midwest, Chikara, and there was a lot more discussion of that stuff going on there than there is here.

It isn't just me though who saw the list as a farce. That's the way the majority of people viewing the list would received it online when whomever from the WKO forum went round posting it on various forums for a trolling purpose which was an odd practice as it kind of devalued the list. It was also a list that like half a dozen people voted on - hardly empirical who hid away in a little online treehouse which took pot shots at the aforementioned Alan4L and Rob Naylor for having different opinions and ultimately more influential opinions than them. A forum so exclusionary it has died off pretty much completely.

[Jmare007]

 

But this isn't about Devitt nor do I want to be redundant. It is just about the undercurrent of close mindedness and intimidation here. I know two others who aren't bothering with the Greatest Ever for that reason. Again if Jimmy Jacobs is the PWO representative of modern indies then well lol.

 

 

All boards are like that though. Older/established posters tend to give the impression they don't appreciate different opinions and/or dismiss claims that go against what they like. I've been a part of many forums and there's always at least 1 guy who complains people are close minded and people with different tastes are not welcomed (except TSC on the-coli but that's whole different experience).

 

The whole point of the Greatest Ever project is to not have a "PWO representative" poll, but to have different ballots and opinions and see what kinda of consensus there is about great wrestlers. If Jimmy Jacobs is the PWO representative of modern indies (not true imo, but whatever) and you think that's laughable, then fight it and make cases for other people. Bring guys that think differently and send a ballots. The project will gain a lot more if you do something about it than if you just point it out and dismiss it.

 

Joe (W2BTD) has tastes that are vastly different from what the majority of this board thinks it's "good wrestling" but he has no problem debating and defending his stance on wrestlers, same with Scott in the "Reaction" podcasts on PTBN. Who cares if some guys don't like your opinion/taste in wrestling? Hell, if there's one place were there are A LOT of people willing to change their opinions on wrestlers it's PWO. But some unfriendly replies are gonna keep guys from sending a ballot??? I guess sometimes people take the internet too seriously...

[JerryvonKramer]

Well I just did some searches for "WKO wrestling forum top 100" on Google and seeing the various reactions to the list on different forums reminded me what awful places the vast majority of them are.

 

Look at the quality of discussion here and here, for example.

 

Now think about what PWO is like in general.

[pol]

But this isn't about Devitt nor do I want to be redundant. It is just about the undercurrent of close mindedness and intimidation here.

 

I'm pretty new around these parts but I've never seen any closed-mindedness or intimidation personally. I strongly suspect that what you're referring to is people being offended that they're asked to back up opinions that would be considered self-evidently true elsewhere.