Selling of the piledriver in different territories/eras

[pol]

Steve Austin's recent talking point re: the DDT has me thinking about how the piledriver has been sold differently according to time and place. It's a move that people are even more sensitive about than the DDT and many people have very prescriptive ideas about how it should be sold that seem to be mostly a result of growing up with wrestling where it was a big move. But there's plenty of examples of it not being that big a deal.

 

Watching 80s New Japan stuff, one thing that struck me is how little piledrivers are sold, even spike piledrivers. In Mexico it's famously sold like death, though I have no idea if it's always been that way. It seems like most of the popular perception of how it they 'should' be sold comes from 80s and 90s WWF/JCP/WCW, where it was a big bomb, potentially a finisher, but not necessarily a debilitating move, unless spiked or done onto a chair or table.

 

What other examples are there?

[ohtani's jacket]

I'm pretty sure I've seen piledrivers under sold in European wrestling, but Finlay's tombstone piledriver routinely knocked folks out and Marty Jones, Mark Rocco and Ken Joyce, among others, used piledrivers as finishers.

[Yo-Yo's Roomie]

I've just been watching Buddy Rogers matches from the 50s where his piledriver is played up as a 'nobody is getting up from that' kind of move. He won a fall in a 2/3 falls match with it, and his opponent couldn't even recover to continue into the next fall.

 

It was weird watching the 80s lucha set, where piledrivers weren't really that big of a deal. Did the piledriver as death move in lucha start with the Art Barr/Blue Panther angle, or before that?

[UKWildcat]

It was banned in the Jarrett territory, so it was rarely used. But when it was used, we (the fans in Jarrett's territory) knew this was a special match/angle because it was presented as the deadliest of deadly moves.

[shoe]

Some places it was played up as death, other places not so much. Harley Race used it as a transition move. Bob Backlund did a killer one and was used as a high spot.

[UKWildcat]

Some places it was played up as death, other places not so much. Harley Race used it as a transition move. Bob Backlund did a killer one and was used as a high spot.

Homest to God, I'm shocked Backlund didnt kill some of the guys with his piledriver.

[Matt D]

[UKWildcat]

I like this one better Matt. Lawler stated it was his idea for Hawk to no sell the piledriver to show how tough the Warriors were (no doubt Lawler saw tons of money).

 

We didn't get Idol and Lawler vs the Warriors in Louisville, but rather the Fabs. I can't remember if they did the piledriver spot in it though.

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xrY_JV77N0E

[Matt D]

I was going to make a gif of Kerry's big no sell but I couldn't make that happen.

[ohtani's jacket]

It was weird watching the 80s lucha set, where piledrivers weren't really that big of a deal. Did the piledriver as death move in lucha start with the Art Barr/Blue Panther angle, or before that?

 

My guess is that it was either a Pena booking idea or had something to do with TV returning to Mexico City.

[JerryvonKramer]

So weird this because I was looking up different styles of piledriver last night and was trying to work out the difference between a belly-to-back / Texas (i.e. Normal) piledriver and a stump or puller piledriver. I think Terry Funk did the latter.

 

Backlund did a jumping piledriver aka the most dangerous move in the known universe.

[pol]

There's also the Gotch-style piledriver, where, in classic pro-wrestling fashion, holding the legs slightly differently makes it more powerful

[JerryvonKramer]

If you hold the waist it's "Texas", if it's back of the trunks it's "stump", if you jump it's "jumping" and I guess if it's legs it's "gotch style"

 

For anyone who doesn't listen to Titans, at one point me and Johnny had an ongoing debate about whether the piledriver hurts the top of the head. I said it is meant to and he said it wasn't.

 

This was after I criticised someone for going for a top of the head headbutt after taking a piledriver.

[cheapshot]

I always thought it was designed to hurt the neck primarily - Road Warrior Hawk no sold the piledriver on occasion due to the size of his neck / traps and shoulders.

[JerryvonKramer]

I believe the debate was resolved later when someone took a piledriver and was bleeding from the top of the head. Actually, I think it was Uncle Elmer Stan Frazier in GCW. Johnny at least admitted that the head takes some impact.

 

Although, yeah, the neck is the main target.

[cheapshot]

I am not sure how taking a Piledriver on a canvas covered by wooden boards could cause someone to bleed from the top of their head. To me it compresses the neck and spine. Anything else is a fluke.

[UKWildcat]

Andy Kaufman in a neckbrace (kayfabe)...

 

Steve Austin legit hurt neck...

 

No doubt the piledriver is designed to injure the neck.

[pol]

The piledriver has always seemed like such a inherently visually brutal move to me that it's weird to see matches where it's almost treated like just a step up from a body slam or something. Just another move to do as part of a sequence. Not to mention the very real dangerousness of the move, you'd think wrestlers would want to get the most out of it.

[NotJayTabb]

One of the things I always thought TNA did right was their treatment of the piledriver when Eric Young turned heel in 2009. He started using the piledriver, with the commentary putting over that it was an unwritten rule in the dressing room that people didn't use the move since it could end careers and affect livelihoods. Thought it put over both the move and how ruthless the newly heel Young was.

[Steenalized]

If you hold the waist it's "Texas", if it's back of the trunks it's "stump", if you jump it's "jumping" and I guess if it's legs it's "gotch style"

 

For anyone who doesn't listen to Titans, at one point me and Johnny had an ongoing debate about whether the piledriver hurts the top of the head. I said it is meant to and he said it wasn't.

 

This was after I criticised someone for going for a top of the head headbutt after taking a piledriver.

Let's put it this way. If you dove into a shallow pool head first and smacked your head against the bottom, you're going to hurt the top of the head. But it's the neck that's taking the serious damage.

[Matt D]

 

If you hold the waist it's "Texas", if it's back of the trunks it's "stump", if you jump it's "jumping" and I guess if it's legs it's "gotch style"

 

For anyone who doesn't listen to Titans, at one point me and Johnny had an ongoing debate about whether the piledriver hurts the top of the head. I said it is meant to and he said it wasn't.

 

This was after I criticised someone for going for a top of the head headbutt after taking a piledriver.

Let's put it this way. If you dove into a shallow pool head first and smacked your head against the bottom, you're going to hurt the top of the head. But it's the neck that's taking the serious damage.

 

You have some weird ideas for gimmick matches.

[khawk20]

The announcers in the AWA always sold the piledriver as an exceptionally dangerous move that should be banned whenever someone whipped it out (talking pre-1984 here).

[Johnny Guitar]

The best part of the Ironman match at Wrestlemania 12 for me was Bret busting out a piledriver.

 

A) because he used it on a semi regular basis and it could have/should have led to a fall and more importantly Lawler, obviously thinking the same thing, as a guy who used the move alot. Completley marking out for his kayfabe arch enemy using it.