LA Park

[JerryvonKramer]

LA Park vs. Dr Wagner Jr (02/06/13)

 

First fall had quite a few indie garbage worker tropes that I wasn't that fond of. For example, Wagner Jr queitly standing by the turnbuckle after taking an 8-minute pounding checking his head for blood while Park casually gets four chairs into position for a powerbomb. I mean "come on". Disappointing end to the first fall that. Also didn't like setting up the chair for a baseball slide shortly after that. Not the sort of thing I can really get behind. I will say that I quite like the crowd though.

 

Things pick up when Wagner finds a bottle in the crowd and starts bashing Park with it. I think he might have even glassed him with it. Pretty brutal. Park bleeding a hell of a lot with his mask ripped off. Second fall was better. Pretty sick cuts and bleeding from Park here. His face looks like a piece of butchered meat.

 

I thought the actual wrestling exchanges in the third fall were pretty lack lusture, and the missed arm drag spot looked silly. There was a very good feeling of carnage and aftermath during it though. Wagner did a bit too much of the "what do I have to do to put this guy away?" sitting up and looking bewildered stuff for my tastes. Also some pointless ref spots.

 

I don't know, I feel like I'm totally not on the same page as the people talking this up. It does have an epic bleeding job from Park, but as a 35-minute brawl, it felt slow in parts and I felt the match peaked too early with Wagner's sick comeback sequence. There's no real escalation of violence in the third fall, because after you've taken a bottle to a guy's head, where do you go from there? Certainly not a classic or anything. I did dig the crowd and setting, so that's a plus.

 

***3/4

 

LA Park vs. El Hijo del Santo (4/28/04)[??]

 

Park all in white for this (hoping this is the right match). There's an excellent transition at the 6-minute mark when Park hits a drop toehold with Santo coming off the top rope and he immediately ramps up the level of violence in the match when he takes over on offense. Santo a bloody mess before long. There are some sick shots of blood being splattered all across the ring which is a cool visual. Park does sometimes give me the impression that he's walking around thinking about what to do next, which can make these brawls feel a bit lethargic in places. I'm not sure that 2/3 falls is the best format for a brawl, to be honest.

 

There is a guy sitting in the front row in a cowboy hat, which I dig. Finishing sequence looked really sloppy, I hated those sunset flips. Covers looked lame, and the double refs were out of position which made the actual finish look forced as the second one took forever to get over there.

 

I can't be sure if this was the right match [for identification purposes, La Park is wearing WHITE here], but I have to be honest: it didn't do a lot for me. I didn't really care for some of the switches from brawling to surfboards and technical sequences, seemed to defy the logic of what they were going for. The level of the work just doesn't seem like it is there to me. I thought this was actively not very good.

 

**1/2

 

LA Park vs. El Mesias (12/11/10)

 

Quite the spectacular entrance for El Mesias. Silly six-sided ring.

 

Opening assault from Park was pretty wild. Like the sequence through the crowd and the chair shots looked great, his inzaguri and vertical suplex on the chair is the best bit of actual wrestling work I've seen from him in this sampling. Then he goes and gets an actual skip (seemingly one made of plastic -- it's more like a rubbish collection unit on a trolley) and bodyslams El Mesias onto it. I don't really like the "hardcore" elements to these brawls beyond the chairs. El Mesias is a really "modern" worker in his look, style and character work -- not really my sort of thing, wouldn't be out of place on Raw. This AAA crowd is hot as hell though and the atmosphere has added to the match quite a bit.

 

Neat kick to the face from Park followed by a scoop powerslam by Mesias (he's no DiBiase). Park does the missed armdrag spot again, I really don't like that. Looks weird to me. I'm also not sure about a heel hitting multiple armdrags, it's a babyface move in my book. Big plancha by El Mesias. Park has a lot of colour here, face almost completely red, mask ripped. Whole series of hurricanranas from El Mesias and a flying bodypress from the top to the outside. Yeah, yeah, I get it. Few minutes later, a superplex by Mesias, but Park kicks out. Well you've got to expect that, we've just seen a flying bodypress from the top rope treated like it was nothing.

 

Fast-forward a few minutes and Park hits a tombstone piledriver. He replaces his mask. Puts a mask on El Mesias and a white sheet over him. Goes for a figure four ... inside cradle! Interesting nearfall. If Jesse was on commentary he'd have been hammering Park for wasting time with the ceremony. Crossface from El Mesias. Is Park going to tap? No, he gets to the ropes. A dude hands him a chair. Low blow! Why was the ref turned around there? Was he paid off? This wasn't my cup of tea at all. Really didn't enjoy it at all.

 

**

 

I came into these three matches fully expecting to enjoy them. Pretty disappointed all around. On this evidence, I don't think Park is making my GWE 100. I thought the Wagner Jr bout was at least worth watching, so I'd be prepared to watch at least two more.

[shoe]

In a perfect world Parv would have loved LA Park and changed his board name to LA Parv. Oh well I can dream.

[Dylan Waco]

At this point if Parv reviews something and doesn't like it I assume I will love it and vice versa.

[WingedEagle]

LA ParV would've been INCREDIBLE. Nonetheless, sorry to hear you didn't dig those. The Wagner Jr. bout is one of my favorites from recent years with the Mesias ones not terribly far behind. Violence!

[JerryvonKramer]

At this point if Parv reviews something and doesn't like it I assume I will love it and vice versa.

Can you think of any matches I've been super high on that you've disliked? Just curious. Most of the examples I can think of are the other way around.

[Dylan Waco]

There are Dory matches you have really liked that I thought were ok at best. I think Dibiase v Savage series is on scale a disappointment, with nothing standing out as worth going out of the way to see. There have been others in the last 6 months or so where we are really far apart but I can't remember specifics offhand.

[JerryvonKramer]

Here are matches I'm super high on: http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/30977-your-34-matches/&do=findComment&comment=5669539

[shoe]

I'd like to see Dylan's takes on

 

Steiners vs Sting/Luger Superbrawl

 

Steiners vs Hase/Sasaki from the Dome in 91

 

The 2 Flair vs Fujinami matches that you covered on WTBBP

 

I thought you were generous on those matches.

[Dylan Waco]

Here are matches I'm super high on: http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/30977-your-34-matches/&do=findComment&comment=5669539

 

I like all of this, most of them quite a bit. Only one I think we'd be far apart on on first glance is Inoki v. Hansen which I think was a good match, but nowhere near great.

 

To Pete's point I think both Flair v. Fujinami matches are really disappointing. I actually just watched Superbrawl last week and thought it was one of the worst matches on that show. Steiners v. Sting/Luger holds up as a fun bombfest, but I don't think it's an all time classic.

[Jetlag]

I'm also not sure about a heel hitting multiple armdrags, it's a babyface move in my book.

 

You ought to do like Matt D and get some lessons in the gentle art of enjoying mexican wrestling.

[alexoblivion]

Maybe try watching the Lizmark and Estrada matches to get a different look at Parka.

[ohtani's jacket]

This was kind of predictable. I don't know why people were pimping La Parka to you as a must watch guy. The Santo match is from '01 as the '04 version is a clip.

[ohtani's jacket]

There was someone interested in pre-Parka Parka the other day. I'm sorry I don't remember who it was, but dataintcash uploaded a Principle Island match a few days ago:

 

[JerryvonKramer]

Can anyone explain to me why they love that El Mesias match? Do people really love El Mesias's egregious any-indie-worker-you've-ever-seen spottiness? I mean WTF? I honestly thought the match was horrible. My disconnect on these LA Park matches has been bothering me a bit.

 

No one has explained what they like about that match beyond saying "oh it's awesome". I review a lot of matches. Some things like Dandy vs. Angel Azteca I can chalk up to either not getting the style, or flat out not liking the style. But that El Mesias one is really not a match I'd expect a guys like Matt D or OJ to be pimping.

 

It seems amazing that I'm getting shit for giving a couple of Steiners tags ****1/2 and in the same thread this match is being talked up.

[Matt D]

I've not seen the Mesias one yet. I felt strongly about the TXT Wagner match but that was, admittedly, before I had seen a lot of lucha.

[ohtani's jacket]

I'm not a fan of the Mesias stuff, or even the Wagner stuff tbh, but I do remember liking the Monterrey brawl with Santo. It doesn't seem like you really dig the gimmick, though. Half the appeal with Parka is the dancing skeleton guy is having violent, bloody brawls.

[JerryvonKramer]

The gimmick is fine and some of the visuals of him bleeding with the mask ripped are cool. But the symbolism stuff is hokey as hell. I would expect to see people shit on the flaming chair or the lying of the sheet over the body before a cover if it happened in a WWE ring. I thought all that stuff was lame and sub-Undertaker level.

 

I just wonder if this stuff is held to the same standard as other stuff and there's some element of it being pimped preceisely because it is under the radar. Or something like that. I don't know, a lot of the same people dig and defend John Cena too, which is hardly a "trendy" opinion, so chalk it up to different strokes. But I'm genuinely surprised to see that match touted as some great match of the past half-decade.

[cheapshot]

There was someone interested in pre-Parka Parka the other day. I'm sorry I don't remember who it was. dataintcash uploaded a Principle Island match a few days ago:

 

 

Me! Thanks OJ

[ohtani's jacket]

I just wonder if this stuff is held to the same standard as other stuff and there's some element of it being pimped preceisely because it is under the radar. Or something like that. I don't know, a lot of the same people dig and defend John Cena too, which is hardly a "trendy" opinion, so chalk it up to different strokes. But I'm genuinely surprised to see that match touted as some great match of the past half-decade.

 

I can't speak for why people pimp modern day Parka matches, but it may have something to do with the fact that lucha brawls aren't what they used to be, particularly in CMLL. Similar to how maestros wrestling became a throwback for the old-school title match style, perhaps Parka brawls are a throwback to how wager matches used to be. I dunno. Just a theory.

[Matt D]

You're very quick to question motives, conscious or otherwise, Parv. Context is important and maybe sometimes, there's something to that, but I find it disappointing, especially here, where most people put so much thought into everything, including their own biases.

 

FWIW, here's what I thought in Sept 2013 about the Parka/Wagner match. I'd probably handle the third fall better now. I'd probably also not be as wowed by some of the early emotion, even if I'd appreciate it and be able to relate it back to other things I've seen:

 

 

Watching the L.A. Park vs Wagner Jr. match now. I like that the first fall wasn't necessarily overkill. Yes it was a lot, but once they got back to the ring, they went right to driving the point home. I think a lot of wrestlers from around the world would have drawn that out more after the power bomb and it was absolutely not necessary. The blood stuff was all twisted, both Wagner wiping it on his own chest and then Park wiping it on his hands and licking it EXACTLY while the ring girl walks out with the segunda caida sign. That was all fairly grindhouse. I think Park had some very varied and interesting ways of just brutally dismantling the hell out of Wagner. I'm not sure I've ever seen the basic idea of "just slam the guy's head into something repeatedly" done so well. The transition was awesome because you're kind of thinking at that point: "what can Wagner do to get back into the match quickly and believably?" And just spearing Park into the chairs was so simple and effective. It was also one of the more believable "Bursts of adrenaline" I've seen when Wagner takes over. Some of that is how he moves around the ring, but I think some of it is just the natural thrill of the possibilities of revenge, if that makes any sense. It's visceral here. It's also a matter of pacing. He's not doing a ton of stuff. He's slamming a chair into his enemy with well-paced shots, the best being the momentum gathering running one. I love the fans with the masks trying to rouse their hero but then it's followed by one of them stooging while Park is about to get nailed with a chair. Weirdly surreal image. All this crowd stuff is a hell of a spectacle and I really like the symmetry with the beating around the arena and the ramp and the mask tearing. Someone like the Mando > Eddie guy could write up some crap about how surreal it is to see Park's mask ripped since it's representative of what's inside of him, so to see it opened up ... something, something. For someone who hasn't seen it before, it just came off as an offputting image. There's this hugely triumphant feel when Wagner's back in the ring and doing the clotheslines. It's like a celebration.

Yeah, I really liked those first two falls and especially how they played off each other.And I am perfectly cool with the reset to start the last fall. It fit into the symmetry well and both guys are just reeling from the get go. When Wagner holds up his hands for Park to stop, it's one of those moments where I don't know if I'm seeing something that usually happens in lucha or not. Independently, it's cool, since both wrestlers are channeling the crowd and even after all the hatred, it's believable that there'd be that moment of pause. Granted Wagner uses it to start fighting back from the slaps but I don't think it was just misdirection. It's almost like these two wrestlers have transcended the hatred and reached a higher plateau of existence through trying to kill each other. What makes all of this work is the space between moves. Every little thing is so damn weighty.

And then it kind of goes on and loses me a little. I think this is a personal problem I've been having with lucha though. I don't really see the shape of the third fall after the dive. it becomes very much "I hit a big move. You hit a big move." and on paper it's not too different from WWE Main Event ending run style, and in a lot of ways is superior since the pacing is slower and the kickouts aren't so ridiculous but I think because I'm used to something so different, it throws me off a little. It's almost like, because they're moving so slowly, I can see the strings holding the trick up?

MAYBE it's not just me though since, from what I can tell, the crowd loses a lot of energy mid way through the third fall. It's still hot, but it was explosive before and instead of escalating, it deflates a little. I do think it really does come back after the leg whip though, mainly because of the "What else can we do?" mannerisms both guys are showing, and it's only increased from there with the ref bump/low blow and the near falls as they head towards the finish.

The finish has the real feel of one of those 70s/early 80s interpromotional US Champion vs Champion matches. There's the visual fall but the ultimate win and no one leaves satisfied. Anyway, I thought it lost its way a little in the third fall, but almost because it had raised the emotional stakes SO high at the start of the fall. It's sort of a shitty thing to hold against a match and sort of hard to explain. In total I thought it was great and I'm pretty sure I like brawls way more than title matches, but for my own weird reasons. I didn't meant to write so much about this at all. I'm glad I watched it.

[JerryvonKramer]

If I were to push you for a star rating, where would you go?

[Matt D]

It's been two years since I saw the match. I'd have to rewatch it first. Moreover, you've never gotten a star rating from me on any other match so there'd be no basis of comparison. That said, I'm willing to do it if you give me a few days.

 

I'd rather watch the Mesias one since you were much lower on that and I'd be curious if I was too.

[JerryvonKramer]

I'm not saying everyone should do star ratings, but the words "great" and "awesome" cover a huge range in my experience. And sometimes you find you're arguing about something when you're within a quarter of a star of each other.

[Jetlag]

Can anyone explain to me why they love that El Mesias match? Do people really love El Mesias's egregious any-indie-worker-you've-ever-seen spottiness? I mean WTF? I honestly thought the match was horrible. My disconnect on these LA Park matches has been bothering me a bit.

 

No one has explained what they like about that match beyond saying "oh it's awesome". I review a lot of matches. Some things like Dandy vs. Angel Azteca I can chalk up to either not getting the style, or flat out not liking the style. But that El Mesias one is really not a match I'd expect a guys like Matt D or OJ to be pimping.

 

It seems amazing that I'm getting shit for giving a couple of Steiners tags ****1/2 and in the same thread this match is being talked up.

 

I thought Mesias was excellent in that match and not spotty at all. Especially his selling of the Tombstone piledriver where he kept holding his neck in place and went for desperate takedowns. That is exactly how you make a believable comeback after getting drilled. He also threw rockin punches and a great tope. I don't see how that plancha to the floor was treated like nothing either - they teased a countout afterwards and Park made a lucky comeback knocking Mesias over with a punch to the face.

 

Park was excellent in the match and it was a distinctly heel performance. You had him stomping the piss out of Mesias, landing square punches to the face and explicitly making sure to attack Mesias' pretty face in front of his female fans. He also made little things like getting crotched or taking a bump to the floor look amazing. After Mesias got into the match Park was fading away and resorting to more and more cheating tactics.

 

FYI Park's brother was murdered just shortly before this event. So the bit with the sheet was typically pro wrestling. It only took a few seconds and didn't detract from the match at all as it allowed Mesias to believably survive, while it emphasized Park was a tasteless arrogant prick.

 

So there you have it. Still the best singles match of the decade so far if you ask me.

[Tim Cooke]

Parka is also a lot of fun during the height of the fun AAA trios matches of the mid 90's. Parka/Rey Jr/Santo/Octagon vs. Pentagon Jr./Psicosis/Jerry Estrada/Fuerza from June 1995 has a heck of a comedy performance from Parka, alongside the other tearing down the joint.

 

The 2001 Santo Monterrey bloodbath has never been a huge favorite of mine, but it is definitely a spot where context matters. Monterrey TV in the early 2000's was pretty dreadful. There were some gems here and there (Rob Bihari and Phil Schneider found a few) but for the most part, the TV was poor. So when this came out, around the same time the Navarro/Dandy 11/08/01 match showed up, it was two different versions of lucha that weren't CMLL or AAA and interesting to compare and contrast [title match worked old school style versus violent and BLOODY brawl].

 

Parka's Guadalajara match from April 2004 against Ultimo Guerrero is good. I know OJ likes it but when I rewatched it a few months ago, I thought it was only above average. He does a great job in the Summer 2004 CMLL trios match with Santo/Mistico/Casas against GDI.

 

Parka is no Emilio Charles Jr. (one of the best trios workers ever) but sometimes his multi man efforts are better than the singles stuff.

 

He was also great in the 12/15/97 match with Psicosis vs. Rey/Juventud from Nitro.