G-1 Climax 25 Discussion

[dkookypunk43]

Today's slate

Gallows-Dale *½

Yano-Tenzan **¼

Makabe-Shibata ***

Ibushi-Styles ****½

Tanahashi-Naito ****¼

[shoe]

Night 5

 

Gallows vs Fale

 

An ok match. Not my cup of tea. 2*

 

Tenzan vs Yano

 

Wow Yano is busted open. Is Tenzan too? Pretty crappy match. 1 1/2*

[shoe]

Shibata vs Makabe

 

We start off with a fight. Shibata hooks on a Figure 4. A rope break. Both guys crossing each other up. Loving Shibata's boot scrapes and utter domination in the corner. We see a forearm exchange. Crowd seemed more happy about the match than I was. 2 3/4*

[shoe]

AJ Styles vs Ibushi

 

I'm digging the arm lock exchanges. Ibushi early having AJ's number is a good counterpoint to AJ having Ibushi's number earlier. Loved the Urange onto the rail. Followed with a nasty back breaker into a chin lock with his knee in Ibushi's back. AJ really is great at working the crowd. Ibushi working over AJ's core was done really well. AJ's digit manipulation to get a counter was great. The rana off the apron was scary.Loved AJ's block of the Super rana. Then the follow sequence was great. Ganzo bomb ruled. Ibushi's counter of the 450. Dueling Pele' kicks. Bloody Sunday for a nearfall. Styles with the Barry Windham glassy eye sell. Pretty sweet match. 4 1/4*

[shoe]

Tanahashi vs Naito

 

 

Naito looks like he's back to tassles on his boots. Naito with a nasty neck breaker on a table. Naito follows up with a cravat. I'm liking this match, but their is a lot of things going on. Naito using a Liger Koppo Kick I'm pretty sure was treated as disrespecting Liger. I liked how Tanahashi kept going back to the leg.That was a finish. I thought both guys looked good. Naito seems to be putting it together. 3 3/4*

[shoe]

Night 6

 

The injuries are growing. Shibata started out hurt. Nakamura has missed 2 shows. Tenzan and Yano look mucked up as well. Ishii is held together by duck tape on a regular basis.

 

 

Nagata vs Takahashi

 

Having Cody Hall come out with him is a step down. He must have been out of dollar bills. Nagata working the mat early. Takanhashi finds a counter. Reversal by Nagata. Hall works over Nagata on the outside. Stomach breaker by Takahashi. He's working Nagata's core. Gotta give Takanhashi credit for sticking to his plan of working over his core. Nagata makes a comeback. Takahashi cuts him off. Overall, solid story told 2 1/4*

 

 

Goto vs Honmma

 

This has potential. Both guys working the neck spine of each other. Big forearm exchange. Honmma with a 1/2 crab. Goto selling the back. Goto with kicks. Loving Honmma going back to the neck and back. The psychology is real basic from both guys. They're keeping the action moving. I still get behind Honmaa, but for how long if they keep beating him.. 3 3/4*

[shoe]

Ishii vs Anderson

 

A bunch of counters early, teases of Ace Crushers. Ishii begins to take control with suplexes and strikes.Right on cue Anderson nails a low level drop kick. It's not his game plan. He begins softening up Ishii's neck. So Ishii returns the favor. Anderson teases the Ace Crusher too much. I counted 9 of them. A very predictable match. 2 3/4*

 

Okada vs Kojima

 

 

Kojima seems fresh in this tournament because he's been hidden in different versions of tags all year. Okada is predictable as a worker too, but it doesn't bother me as much because he's working his opponents neck to set up his finisher like Bret used to do. This was a good match. At times I thought they sold exhaustion or the impact of the moves too much. That said I liked the bout. 3 1/4*

[Grimmas]

Falling behind.. I may have to cut out some of these lesser matches.

[stomperspc]

Ibushi/Shibata was a lot of good stuff surrounding what was one of the more ridiculous no selling/pop up/one count sequences I can remember seeing recently. Not selling a limb injury all the way through a match doesn't bother me that much. This kind of bad selling/lack of selling kills me. They were working really stiff and the offense was generally good. Why would you kill each other only to suggest at several points that the offense can be shaken off or has no impact at all? It's totally counterproductive. There was one really bad segment but there were three fighting spirit parts in total, only one of which I thought was "okay" (even then it wasn't ideal). They did enough good stuff to offset some or all of the bad but that only serves to demonstrate that they didn't need to go there to have a good match.

[stomperspc]

I thought Tanahashi/Fale and Styles/Naito were good matches. Fale/Tanahashi moved up from okay to good on the strength of the ending. I liked the Bad Luck Fall teases. The way all of that played out and the actual finish was a good way to build off their match from last year's G-1. Naito continues to do a very good job of doing his gimmick justice while still doing enough in the ring to keep things interesting. I think he's already struck a better balance than La Sombra has. I want to watch it again at some point to see if the pace and a few semi-sloppy moments bring it down on replay, but on first view it was a fun main event. Naito's finisher looked much better this go around, largely because of how Styles took it. I am also really enjoying Naito's neck breaker heavy offense.

[pol]

I'm have mixed feelings about Naito's new character. I think the change was sorely needed and I enjoy the idea, but I don't think he's there as a heel worker yet. I find his control segments pretty dull. I think he needs some more nasty, vicious looking stuff. I also struggle with the idea of a guy who looks like he just rolled out of bed and doesn't really want to be there beating guys.

[shoe]

Night 7

 

Gallows vs Yano

 

Yano with that eye takes away from his character. I'm glad Gallows and crew went at the bad eye. I liked the play on spots. Still nothing to be proud of. 1 1/2*

[shoe]

Tenzan vs Makabae

 

 

Makabe vs an injured Tenzan. I like how they're trying to get the match over with their personality. The work here is actually much smarter than usual. It looked like Makabe almost killed Tenzan. 2 1/4*

 

Ibushi vs Shibata

 

I've seen this match get put over huge. Let me see what all the fuss is about. I like both wrestlers so we'll see. The opening of this is pretty awesome. I'm sucked into this right off the bat. The only thing that snaps me out of how incredible it is was Ibushi's pussy elbow strikes. Love Shibata's bring it stance. Marked out huge for Shibata's counter to the Pele' Kick. I hated the rapid fire no sell spots. Crowd ate that bull shit up though. Shibata just delivered one of the nastiest Death Valley Driver. The slap into a sleeper followed by a penalty kick was fucking sick. Out 1st legit MOTYC 4 3/4*

[shoe]

Tanahashi vs Fale

 

 

I enjoyed this. I thought they did a good job of using shortcuts, and bells and whistles to keep this entertaining. Tanahashi worked real hard here. Fale used his size to an advantage, but his work on top was mediocre for the most part. 2 3/4*

 

Styles vs Naito

 

 

Styles shitting on the gimmick is pretty funny. I liked seeing Naito's more agressive side. Styles selling the leg. I like Naito splitting his attack from the neck and leg. Now Naito's just going after the neck area. Nice drama where Styles makes the ropes. A big stop by AJ with an exploder into the corner. Naito's finisher needs some edge to it. 3 1/2*

[soup23]

Night 2 finish:

 

Honma vs. Nagata

 

Good match but I do feel me increasingly getting less invested in Honma due to his booking which is dangerous territory going forward. ***1/4

 

Okada vs. Elgin

 

I don't see what was in this that had some people calling it a great match. It was a series of decent power moves with absolutely no cohesion or innovation. Decent but dull to me. **1/2

 

Anderson vs. Nakamura

Ditto to the match before. This was a pretty weak G-1 card overall and was a pretty big chore to get through. Anderson was reckless with Nakamura in a good many spots. **3/4

[Dylan Waco]

 

Ibushi vs Shibata

 

I've seen this match get put over huge. Let me see what all the fuss is about. I like both wrestlers so we'll see. The opening of this is pretty awesome. I'm sucked into this right off the bat. The only thing that snaps me out of how incredible it is was Ibushi's pussy elbow strikes. Love Shibata's bring it stance. Marked out huge for Shibata's counter to the Pele' Kick. I hated the rapid fire no sell spots. Crowd ate that bull shit up though. Shibata just delivered one of the nastiest Death Valley Driver. The slap into a sleeper followed by a penalty kick was fucking sick. Out 1st legit MOTYC 4 3/4*

 

Sorry shoe, gotta do it, but I find this rating to be horse shit and Will should bury you more for this than Young Bucks love. I have liked both guys this year, and the bulk of this match was very good if not great. But that no sell fest sequence was absolutely terrible. I've become accustomed to, and semi-tolerable of, singular instances of that sort of thing in a match even if I find it absurd in principle. That said this was possibly the worst sequence I've ever seen in a match, because it killed the entire feel of the match for me. It's one think for Sekimoto to no sell massive head trauma at the hands of Ishikawa - that was stupid and the match sucked, but they started from that point so I can except it as just a dumbass match from beginning to end. This on the other hand was the equivalent of two guys standing up in mid-match, looking at the camera and screaming "WRESTLING IS FAKE, NOTHING MATTERS!" For a sequence like that to occur with guys taking big time shots and head bumps and not only not selling but actually INCREASING the pacing during that point in the match is just awful. Why sell anything at that point? When do we know if a move has any impact or causes damage? Why sell big spots sometimes and not others? It's just nonsense, lazy as fuck, dogshit air dropped into a match that didn't need it. The story was already there, both guys were looking tough without that bullshit, and after that I just threw up my hands and said "fuck this bring back Tenzan and Makabe." They did some fun/violent looking stuff after, but who cares? They already established nothing matters, so why should I? That sequence was every bit as bad as the famed Edwards/Richards suplex, actually worse because it was in an otherwise strong match. Despite hating that sequence that much I STILL might have been all in on this match if they had closed it with some near falls of note. The match REALLY needed those after that sequence. Instead we didn't get those and the match ended after a weak looking Shibata sleeper into his PK. I have no problem accepting the idea that NJPW hardcores, people who don't care about selling and/or define it in a way that has no relationship to my definition, or people who solely care about "excitement" in their wrestling and value nothing else, would view this as a nearly perfect MOTY. But YOU having that high an opinion on this is utterly puzzling to me. From what I thought I knew of your tastes you would basically have to have thought EVERY OTHER aspect of the match was flawless, and transcendently great. I just don't see it at all.

 

Now that that rant is over I actually really loved Tanahashi's perfomance v. Fale and thought they had a very good match, Styles v. Naito was rock solid for the style they were working, and I kind of loved Yano v. Gallows as your weirdly booked face John Tatum-clone v. heel Scott Putski-clone match.

[tim]

I agree, I can deal with a lot of the NJPW no selling stuff but that was a disaster of a sequence. The match didn't excite me much in general although there was some good stuff in it, and an especially great ending. I still don't think there's been a match this year so far that I'd put in the top 10 of last year's G1 matches, though I should probably rewatch AJ/Ibushi.

[Coffey]

So, I'm just now starting the G1 Climax.

 

One thing is for certain about NJPW: I can tell when people are taking a night off. Like all the opening tags from night one. Just nothing happening or going on at all. I feel like I wasted my time watching them. I could have saved an hour if I just skipped ahead. D'oh!

[shoe]

I can see where you're coming from Dylan. I rolled my eyes watching the spot.I loathed the spot. Yet it might have been a 15-30 sec spot. I can't shit can the whole match because of 30 secs. For you it was a make or break spot. I viewed it as a bad choice . To me it wasn't as bad as shit canning leg or arm work. I thought the work before and after was so great that I'm able to forgive it. Now I've seen people say it was a masterful spot. That's bull shit. Or at least explain it to me. I loved the stifness, and crispness. Since you brought it up I really did find it flawless but that spot and a shitty Ibushi elbow .

[Coffey]

Pretty sure I'm skipping any (and every) match with Anderson, Yano, Gallows, Tenzan, Takahashi, or Fale. Kinda indifferent on Kojima & Nagata...they used to be good. Makabe is really hit or miss for me. So is Elgin.

 

I'm cool with Okada, Tanahashi, Homna, Ishii, Ibushi, Goto, Shibata, Naito, Nakamura & Styles.

 

Any match that I'm missing by skipping those guys that I should seek out?

[fxnj]

I don't see what's so hard to understand about the "no sell" sequence in Ibushi/Shibata. There clearly was selling going on, it just involved both guys doing their best to fight through the damage until it caught up to them. It basically did serve as the match's near fall segment, except both guys were so evenly matched and had so little in the tank they just chose to lay out everything they had instead of resting and giving up the advantage. I have no idea how you could watch and get the impression that the moves weren't supposed to hurt.

[Dylan Waco]

They sped up their movements and pace during that sequence dramatically, literally sprinting full speed with no indication at all that they had just taken a shred of damage. That's not my interpertation - that is a literal description of what occurs. If you like the spot because you found it exciting fine, but don't tell me that sequence was an expression of selling in the traditional sense. Maybe it was some of that "next level" selling Meltzer saw in Makabe, maybe your definition of selling is radically different than mine, but claiming that sequence was an example of moves having great meaning expressed through consistent selling smacks of "I like these guys and the sequence excited me, let me find a straw to grasp to on the selling front because I don't want to have to consider any criticism."

[Tim Cooke]

I agree with Dylan. If that is traditional selling, then it exposed all the other matches as being completely meaningless. It's why the 90's All Japan style died: top this, top that move wise - no more moves then we will no sell to pop the crowd.

 

What will Ibushi and Shibata do in their next match? Double up on that sequence? It's one thing to just work a near fall match (Cena vs Owens I, II, and III) and while that may be flawed, at least they are just throwing bombs. No idea what Shibata and Ibushi were thinking, especially since the rest of the match was pretty good.

[pol]

Even ignoring how egregious this particular example was, the "they're fighting through the pain" talking point is a common one to justify that kind of spot and most of the time I just don't get that from the actual performance at all. If you're fighting through the pain you have to communicate that with your facial expressions and body language. Otherwise you're just randomly deciding not to sell, which shits all over the internal consistency that is a prerequisite for suspension of disbelief in any form of fiction.

 

I don't know that I've ever seen any examples of the spot done well outside of a few times in mid-90s AJPW, before they gravitated more towards the full-on delayed selling that informed the modern approach. The famous Kobashi vs. Williams finish is the only one that comes to mind - even if you think it's excessive, you at least can't accuse Kobashi of looking like he just decided not to sell.

[shoe]

I hated the spot. I just didn't find it as a match killer. I viewed it as a 30 seconds of not selling a leg that had been worked over. To me Kushida's leg selling against Omega was dramaticallly worse since it destroyed the whole story of the match. Kushida made a choice, but it was worse because it was bad choice after bad choice. Ibushi in Styles 1 showed worse choices. To me they momentarily in the match did a detour, but they corrected it. So it wasn't a deal breaker for me.The work the guys did up until that sucked me in. I do understand it being a deal breaker to some. To justify the spot though I can't get behind.