Grimmas Posted September 5, 2015 Report Share Posted September 5, 2015 It's actually pretty common for creative professional types to follow other stuff going on in their field. Not doing it is pretty rare actually. It's arrogant, especially when, as DR says, they think they are qualified to make sweeping statements about who the best guys are in the business when they ignore entire swaths of it. I run a store and my head office encourages me to go in all the stores near me and see what is going on at least once every few weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted September 5, 2015 Report Share Posted September 5, 2015 There is zero chance that Yokota knew who the Sandman was for the simple reason that there was zero chance that the majority of workers outside the Michinoku Pro guys knew who he wasNobody in Japan ever watched any ECW show ever? That's hard to believe, considering the number of ECW guys who were brought over to work in Japan in various different promotions. And besides, Sandman did a lot more than just ECW; hell, he worked on Wrestlemania once. He was on both Nitro and eventually Raw for several months apiece, as well as a handful of PPVs with both companies. He worked a metric fuckton of TNA shows, for whatever that's worth. So, the short version is: are you saying Japanese wrestlers don't watch American tapes or TV? Considering how obsessively American workers often regard their Japanese tape-watching, that would be an awfully one-sided double standard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteF3 Posted September 5, 2015 Report Share Posted September 5, 2015 What would the '90s Japanese equivalent of Sandman be? Would even an American wrestler who's a tape studier be familiar with, say, the Winger if he came up to them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted September 5, 2015 Report Share Posted September 5, 2015 Winger's too obscure. Mr. Pogo or Wing Kanemura would be better examples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBadMick Posted September 5, 2015 Report Share Posted September 5, 2015 I always think it's obvious when listening to shows who are the "true fans" and who are the "workers". Like Jim Cornette, Jim Ross, Kevin Sullivan -- all those guys watch wrestling outside of their bubble, or at least have awareness of what went on and when. Agree with this for the most part, but thought it was interesting after Warrior's death that Cornette noted that WWF was about the only promotion in the late '80s that he didn't tape and watch during his days off. I could understand his aversion to some of the sillier gimmicks, but thought the tag team and intercontinental scene could have held his interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted September 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2015 Well, Cornette didn't even like the major league *look* of the WWF, but yeah, he might have liked some of the televised house shows okay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted September 5, 2015 Report Share Posted September 5, 2015 There is zero chance that Yokota knew who the Sandman was for the simple reason that there was zero chance that the majority of workers outside the Michinoku Pro guys knew who he wasNobody in Japan ever watched any ECW show ever? That's hard to believe, considering the number of ECW guys who were brought over to work in Japan in various different promotions. And besides, Sandman did a lot more than just ECW; hell, he worked on Wrestlemania once. He was on both Nitro and eventually Raw for several months apiece, as well as a handful of PPVs with both companies. He worked a metric fuckton of TNA shows, for whatever that's worth. So, the short version is: are you saying Japanese wrestlers don't watch American tapes or TV? Considering how obsessively American workers often regard their Japanese tape-watching, that would be an awfully one-sided double standard. Considering how low of an opinion the Japanese wrestlers hold for American wrestlers below the global star level (Flair, Hogan, etc) or long time gaijin mainstays (Hansen, Vader, Funk, etc)...yes that is exactly what I expect...it would be like if Flair was asked about MIKAMI of DDT...he's not going to know who the hell that is. ECW I don't think had a good penetration in the Japanese market. And Sandman in the bigger American companies was nothing much more than jobber level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laz Posted September 5, 2015 Report Share Posted September 5, 2015 ECW had larger penetration in Japan towards the end of the '90s than during the middle due to the FMW deal alone, but FMW also wasn't a top dog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted September 5, 2015 Report Share Posted September 5, 2015 Y'all are acting like this is Tony Mamaluke or Balls Mahoney we're talking about here, not THE SANDMAN. He's more famous than you're giving him credit for. He's got that Jake The Snake sort of fame, where way more fans remember him than lots of other guys who had similar careers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted September 5, 2015 Report Share Posted September 5, 2015 You're way overrating Sandman if you think he's anywhere near Jake. Jake would get headlines on ESPN if he died tomorrow. No one outside of this kind of fandom would hear if the Sandman died. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted September 5, 2015 Report Share Posted September 5, 2015 I doubt Jaguar Yokota was watching ECW tapes while training Jd's girls in the mid 90's. And I don't see how or why she would get aware of the Sandman later on. But what's mind blowing and cool as hell was that the Sandman knew about Jaguar. Because I doubt ECW guys were watching too much old school Zenjo or current Jd' in the locker room either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted September 5, 2015 Report Share Posted September 5, 2015 You're way overrating Sandman if you think he's anywhere near Jake. Jake would get headlines on ESPN if he died tomorrow. No one outside of this kind of fandom would hear if the Sandman died. Sandman's entrance is more famous than Sandman himself. Perhaps if they had played the song when he went up to Jaguar...but that's silly. And I concur, he is nowhere near Jake Roberts's level. Jake was a memorable gimmick with memorable props (the snakes) in a high point (but declining) of WWF's popularity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted September 5, 2015 Report Share Posted September 5, 2015 I think if you polled fans from that era they would be much more likely to remember Gillberg or Ralphus than they would be to remember Sandman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted September 5, 2015 Report Share Posted September 5, 2015 Every one of you is ridiculously wrong on this, and I have no idea why you're even believing this bullshit, so I quit this pointless "argument". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted September 5, 2015 Report Share Posted September 5, 2015 I think if you polled fans from that era they would be much more likely to remember Gillberg or Ralphus than they would be to remember Sandman. Okay, let's not get ridiculous now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted September 5, 2015 Report Share Posted September 5, 2015 I think if you polled fans from that era they would be much more likely to remember Gillberg or Ralphus than they would be to remember Sandman. Okay, let's not get ridiculous now. It's not that ridiculous. How many fans from that era actually watched ECW or even knew it existed? We live in a bubble where we know about pretty much everything. But if you were tuning in for Nitro vs. Raw, chances are you had never heard of ECW. How many people really had access to Hardcore TV? And at it's height the ECW on TNN show was doing like a million viewers. Gillberg and Ralphus had significant time on Raw and Nitro and they were memorable because they were goofy and Ralphus was attached to a popular act. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkdoc Posted September 5, 2015 Report Share Posted September 5, 2015 Every one of you is ridiculously wrong on this, and I have no idea why you're even believing this bullshit, so I quit this pointless "argument". no offense, but i think you might be in a bit of a bubble of your own here. or maybe you're misunderstanding the point. i know a number of people IRL who have never heard of john freaking cena yet know jake the snake, the undertaker, stone cold, and some others. none of these people have ever heard of the sandman, or ECW period. that's the kind of crowd i think people here are referring to - the total non-fan, the proverbial man on the street. it might be a generational thing causing this argument, but i haven't seen any of my lapsed attitude era fan buddies bring up the sandman. idk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted September 5, 2015 Report Share Posted September 5, 2015 C'mon Jingus. Getting to the heart of the issue here, can you really honestly picture Jaguar watching ECW at all? Hell I am not even sure she would have watched Raw or Nitro either. Seems to me the only Americans she would know of are the ones who went to Japan as the gaijins in their native companies or global icons. Sandman is neither. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted September 5, 2015 Report Share Posted September 5, 2015 C'mon Jingus.Nope. Just sitting here giggling at the mental image of the facial expressions that the fans and wrestlers I've known would make if y'all told them the same shit you're saying in here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted September 6, 2015 Report Share Posted September 6, 2015 The proof is in the pudding, that being Jaguar did in fact not know wbo Sandman is. So I don't see why you are acting indignant about hypotheticals when the incident proves us correct. But sure, y'all can giggle all you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted September 6, 2015 Report Share Posted September 6, 2015 I'm also giggling at how you think the fact that apparent ignorance of American wrestlers shown by one middle-aged Japanese woman who never worked in America, is somehow a stunning indictment of the level of Sandman's casual-fan fame and market penetration among American fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteF3 Posted September 6, 2015 Report Share Posted September 6, 2015 I can't believe this is even a debate. I'd be far more stunned that Jaguar would know who Sandman was than I am that Sandman was a Jaguar fan. Jaguar was wrestling, running a business, and training wrestlers. In a pre-digital, pre-Youtube environment she wasn't trading American wrestling tapes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted September 6, 2015 Report Share Posted September 6, 2015 I'm also giggling at how you think the fact that apparent ignorance of American wrestlers shown by one middle-aged Japanese woman who never worked in America, is somehow a stunning indictment of the level of Sandman's casual-fan fame and market penetration among American fans. Which is still nothing. The only people I know that have an awareness of ECW are people that were hardcore online fans. That was 2 or 3 of my friends including me. We used to have PPV parties from 97-00. No one ever wanted to order an ECW PPV and I was the only person still watching WCW during his run. No one saw his TNA run and I know hardcore WWE fans that were watching when he was there and wouldn't remember him. ECW at it's absolute peak of visibility on TNN was pulling around a million viewers. That's a drop in the bucket to what Raw and Nitro were pulling at the time. Hell, I knew what ECW was and that it played in Columbus but I couldn't tell you when it was on or what channel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted September 6, 2015 Report Share Posted September 6, 2015 Jaguar was wrestling, running a business, and training wrestlers. she wasn't trading American wrestling tapes. I don't see how one leads to the other, considering the number of wrestlers/promoters/trainers who are well known for watching a shitload of tapes. Which is still nothing. The only people I know that have an awareness of ECW are people that were hardcore online fans. That was 2 or 3 of my friends including me. We used to have PPV parties from 97-00. No one ever wanted to order an ECW PPV and I was the only person still watching WCW during his run. No one saw his TNA run and I know hardcore WWE fans that were watching when he was there and wouldn't remember him.All I can say is, my own experiences with these matters were very different than yours. ECW was incredibly popular with the vast majority of wrestling fans I've ever personally known, and I'd say more of these folks remember Sandman than would recognize New Jack, Shane Douglas, or maybe even Tommy Dreamer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted September 6, 2015 Report Share Posted September 6, 2015 But are you talking about hardcores or casuals. If you weren't in that ECW bubble from 95-99 you didn't know who any of those guys were unless they jumped to WCW before 98 or had a WWE run. Asking a MNW casual about ECW would be like asking them about WCW weekend show talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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