Fixing the WWF in 2002

[JaymeFuture]

So for this week's podcast we are returning to our booking committee format for a discussion re-booking the WWF from April 2002, a very interesting time that of course saw that dawn of the brand extension. With the WWF coming off a number of failed hotshots, WrestleMania 18 and needing a new direction, we're looking to get some feedback on what you think needed to be done to make this new venture, and the company itself, succeed during a period where ratings and popularity fell.

 

On the premise that you HAVE to do the brand extension, what are some of the key things you would have booked to make it turn out better than it did? What do you do with Raw and Smackdown? Who do you push and how? What do you do with the titles? Et cetera.

 

As always, we'll be reading the best feedback/ideas on the show and crediting you accordingly. So what would you have done?

 

EDIT - The show discussing "Fixing The WWF in April 2002" is now online and available to listen to at the following link: http://squaredcirclegazette.podbean.com/mf/web/qy4u6m/SCGRadio57-FixingTheWWFinApril2002.mp3

[thebrainfollower]

Tempted as I am to say, HHH suffers a career ending injury, has to retire, problem solved, there is more to it than that.

[jcmmnx]

Get Steph a job outside of WWE.

[Slasher]

There is a lot I would have done and I might get around to posting that later but for right now I wanna mention that one thing I would have done was giving Rob Van Dam a chance to be the champion. With Brock being on SD (which if it was me, wouldn't happen), RVD could have been the perfect counterpart for Raw and setting the two champions apart in presentation and style. So basically, what thebrainfollower said.

[Loss]

April 2002 is tough. Austin was falling apart, Hogan's steam was short-lived, Rock was leaving for Hollywood, Jericho had been killed off with an awful title run and the NWO had already run its course less than two months in. On the flip side, Brock and Eddy were coming in fresh, RVD was very over and Goldust had a better-than-expected comeback. It was also a unique month in that Hogan was so hot that HHH lost nearly all of his usual pull for a few weeks.

[jdw]

Slightly earlier than 2002, but one that Elliott would recall:

 

Frank Jewett's 2001 Titan Sports Entertainment Thread

 

This was in the early days of the WWF pondering a second brand, though of course at the time it was WCW which they were in the process of killing off. That does touch on contemporaneously some of the issues in the company.

 

For old time readers, you get the joy of the old short line formatting.

 

John

[Mad Dog]

I think the biggest frustrations I had in 2002 were Rob Van Dam not getting a run with the belt and BookDust not being used to their full ability.

[ezgo]

April 2002 is tough. Austin was falling apart, Hogan's steam was short-lived, Rock was leaving for Hollywood, Jericho had been killed off with an awful title run and the NWO had already run its course less than two months in. On the flip side, Brock and Eddy were coming in fresh, RVD was very over and Goldust had a better-than-expected comeback. It was also a unique month in that Hogan was so hot that HHH lost nearly all of his usual pull for a few weeks.

 

Don't forget Kurt, and if they had gotten Perfect some help before it was too late. Edge was a rising star, as was Rey, and don't forget HBK coming back. I would say build the Raw title scene around Edge, HBK, and RVD, and build the Smackdown title scene around Eddy, Brock, Perfect, and Kurt. Also, work harder to keep Austin, if only in a non-wrestler role, and maintain a good relationship with the Rock, so that he would consider a part time schedule. Booker T and Goldust should have gotten a longer run, too. They worked well together.

[Loss]

I didn't mention Perfect because by April it was clear he couldn't bring it anymore. I remember thinking it was funny how everyone was so excited about the Mr. Perfect comeback, but the Goldust comeback -- which was a shoulder shrugger -- had more legs. I also didn't mention Rey and Shawn since they came a little later in the year, but I do agree with your points.

 

I think Smackdown should have been the tag team show. Jericho/Christian and Booker/Goldust should have been there too, with the tag titles presented as the #1 main event title, and the three teams in the Smackdown Six mixed in with the RAW teams. Those two teams felt like they should have been part of the Smackdown 6, but weren't.

[Jmare007]

Rock's relationship with WWE didn't go south until they let his contract run up in 2005 or 2004, right?

 

He was very much a part timer in 2002.

[Mad Dog]

I think it was getting pretty strained in 2003.

[jcmmnx]

How much did HHH squashing Hurricane, after Rock made him look like a million bucks play into Rock's resentment of WWE/HHH?

[Mad Dog]

A big part if I remember correctly because HHH had done that to a couple of guy's he had worked with.

[Slasher]

Most notably Chris Jericho after Rock worked so hard in his feud with him the previous fall/winter only to see HHH kill him dead in the Mania build and match.

[thebrainfollower]

Suffice to say I think HHH did everything in his power to ensure Rock went away and stayed in Hollywood. And good for Rock doing just that and becoming a success.

[fakeplastictrees]

Reducing the number of titles would have been a good start. WWE, Tag, and Divas title on Raw. WHC, CW, and I.C. title on Smackdown. None of that two tag team champions and two Divas champions bullshit.

 

The biggest thing for 2002 is to placate HHH's and Hulk Hogan's egos while actually booking for the fans. In the two situations I present below, HHH will be able to cosplay as NWA Champion Ric Flair and beat Hogan and The NWO while at the same time NOT prevent guys like Jericho, RVD, and Booker T from rising to the next level. While on the other hand, Hogan will also get to lead the NWO, not eat any pinfalls (except against Rock at WMX8 and in the Survivor Series Match), wrestle only 4-5 times that year (all on PPV), be viewed as the guy calling the shots right alongside Vince McMahon, and eventually move gracefully his final active face run as WHC.

 

 

There are two major things that standout to me

 

Early 2002 had a big issue with The NWO. Vince McMahon and company were not interested in re-defining the already tired gimmick and instead decided to 'WWE' the gimmick to the hilt which lead to WWE NWO version much, polished graphics, and then tired 'we are taking over' talking points without much merit. The lack of involvement of Vince also hurt it the angle as well as the injuries and the constant rotating of members. It got so bad that at one point it was Flair, X-Pac, and Big Show wearing NWO colors talking about taking over while the orginal three members were doing other things (i.e. being unrealible, being injured, or going back to the 80s gimmick that made WWE a shit ton of money). So what should have been done?

 

Simple. Never turn Hogan. I think turning Hogan was the biggest mistake WWE made that year as heel Hogan had a lot of reasons to want to take over WWE from the inside vs. becoming a smiling babyface just because Toronto popped for his shit. Hogan should have been allowed to keep the grizzled-veteran persona of calling shots, taking short cuts, and politicking his way into situations. Hall would have still been Hall and wind up in the situation he did and Nash would have still blown his quad, but if WWE began redefining the purpose of The NWO, The NWO could have been a combination of the good elements of Nexus (gang warfare, surprise attacks, and turning the WWE upside) mixed with staple NWOisms. Hogan, Pac, Nash, Big Show, and Hall would have been a good start. The remaining members would have been disgruntled WWE employees who feel as though they have not gotten a fair shake by managment and are lead astray by Hogan: Maven, Albert, Shawn Stasiak, Test, and Mark Jindrak would have been those guys. By June 2002 the NWO would have consisted of Hogan, Pac, Big Show, Maven, Albert, SS, Test, and Jindrak with Hogan making constant mentions of "talking to Big Kev" while Nash is out tending to his injury. Enter HBK.HBK/HHH would decide to put aside their feud post SS to get rid fo NWO once and for-all, however they need some help. WWE would have to put the Billy and Chuck stuff on hold for 'one night', bring back Road Dogg for a 2 month period as well as Hall, have Pac play the loyal friend who is conflicted, and then of course a returning Nash who is pissed at the entire world for NWO not accomplishing what it should have, Hogan being Hogan, HHH trying to play their friendship against him and other elements which leads to:

 

Survivor Series 2002:

 

NWO (Hogan, Hall, Nash*, Big Show, and Jindrak ) vs. DX (HHH, HBK, Pac, Billy Gunn, and Road Dogg)

 

* If Nash is still hurt and can't wrestle the team of Jindrak and Stasiak should have been built up all of this time [being tag champions going into Survivor Series] to lend some cred to the NWO side with such a big player out of action.

 

The stipulation: losing team has to disband forever. NWO loses with everyone blaming Hogan as he took the pinfall, Hogan has his Hogan/Sting BFG 2010 moment and turns face.

 

- Gunn goes back to re-teaming with Chuck

 

- Road Dogg says his goodbyes backstage and heads to TNA

 

- HHH and HBK stay on Raw and do not intersect in career paths with the expection of the occassional tag match on Raw

 

- Pac continues his ways until he is eventually released

 

This would have given the WWE fanbase DX vs. NWO, allow Hogan to turn face without killing off The NWO, position Jindrak and Stasisk as prime time players in WWE, and allow for one more X-Pac babyface run in WWE (which would have been better than the go-away heat he received during this time), keep HBK and others who didn't need NWO- out of NWO. The whole year would have be used as a nice setup for the Hogan/McMahon WMXIX match, as well as Vince wanted to take over WWE with Hogan hand-in-hand just as he did in the 80's, but Hogan losing caused all of Vince's plans and hardwork to go to shit.

 

...................

 

Something else that should have been done, RVD as WHC. RVD just came off a hot year, but 2002 begin the slow decline of RVD as WWE refused to cash-in on his popularity. It would have been a really simple move...just move him to Smackdown right-out the gate. Smackdown's roster in 2002 should have consisted of these guys as the top: Angle, Lesnar, Benoit, Jericho, Rock, RVD, Eddie Guerrero, Edge, Booker T, and Undertaker. That would have been a strong 10 and RVD would never run into the politics of HHH, etc. HHH can cosplay Ric Flair to his heart's content without ever burying Booker T, Jericho, or RVD and all three of those guys would have most likely had WHC before 2005. Raw would have sucked (HHH, Kane, Big Show, Hardys, Hogan, Austin, Nash, Dudleys [ I would have kept them together but TOTALLY freshen up the act] ) but it sucks now...so yeah...

[Slasher]

Maven? Shawn Stasiak? Albert? In the NWO? So basically you want to repeat the same mistake WCW made the first time around inducting too many and wrong sorts of guys in what is supposed to be a premier stable. This is three of the biggest stars in both the WWF and WCW, and you want Maven? Shawn Stasiak? Albert? LOL.

[NotJayTabb]

I actually would have kept the tag titles as a Raw exclusive belt. With the cruiser title staying on Smackdown, it means each brand would have a world title, a secondary title and a style of wrestling unique to that brand. Given that Smackdown would be the "workrate" brand in 2002, the cruiser title felt like a natural fit there. Meanwhile, the tag titles on Raw would let you make the most of the Outsiders whilst still healthy/useable. A Dudleys/Outsiders match could have been built to as a big deal (I'd still have split the Hardys btw), then you'd have a decent tag roster of Dudleys, APA, Billy & Chuck, Outsiders etc, who wouldn't necessarily put on the great matches that the Smackdown workers would, but would get decent reactions whilst you built up new teams (the soon-to-debut 3 Minute Warning, Jindrak & Cade and my EWR staple that never actually happened, Stevie Richards & Val Venis)

[fxnj]

Maven? Shawn Stasiak? Albert? In the NWO? So basically you want to repeat the same mistake WCW made the first time around inducting too many and wrong sorts of guys in what is supposed to be a premier stable. This is three of the biggest stars in both the WWF and WCW, and you want Maven? Shawn Stasiak? Albert? LOL.

Not going to defend Stasiak but Maven seemed like a pretty hot talent coming off Tough Enough and Albert showed a lot of potential even with getting misused and having to go to NJPW to be a good big man. Replace Jindrak and Stasiak with Maven and Albert in the Survivor Series and I'd be on board with the idea.

[Slasher]

The larger point I was trying to make is you don't add people to the nWo just for the sake of adding people. A 5 man group of Hogan, Nash, Hall, Show and Xpac would suffice as that was one of the original lineups of the nWo. I wouldn't even have added Shawn Michaels to the group and he is a bigger name than any of those guys mentioned. That was a mistake that WCW made, making what was supposed to be the hip yet dominant force a severely bloated mess where you had Virgil and the worse half of Harlem Heat wearing nWo shirts. People assume that Nash would tear his quad no matter what but I am not too sure. If they were smarter in how they used him, he might not have had the opportunity to injure himself. Of course Hall is always gonna be Hall. But I wouldn't replace him for even that full year in 2002.

[Mad Dog]

Virgil was a vital part of the nWo. Who else was going to make the beer runs during Nitro?

[fakeplastictrees]

Maven? Shawn Stasiak? Albert? In the NWO? So basically you want to repeat the same mistake WCW made the first time around inducting too many and wrong sorts of guys in what is supposed to be a premier stable. This is three of the biggest stars in both the WWF and WCW, and you want Maven? Shawn Stasiak? Albert? LOL.

 

Yes. I would fill the NWO with job guys that would get a little rub while specifically being there to make sure Hogan, Hall, Nash, Big Show, and Pac don't take falls. Maven was a good talker and Test and Albert were both moving into being good workers (Test heel worker in 2003 was fantasic). The Stasiak and Jindrak combo would again be designed to try to actually given these guy some spotlight to hopefully carry forward in 2003 and beyond vs. being released shortly after. Its hard to make a star-studded NWO as SOMEONE will need to take an ass whopping from the top faces in the company. Maven, Albert, Test, etc. taking an ass whopping from HHH/HBK/Taker/Kane would be more acceptable (as it was in WCW) then those same guys jobbing out Hogan, Show, Nash, Hall, and Pac and not making any money.

 

Another reason for adding some of the other guys is at the end of the day we are talking about a stable consisting of SCOTT HALL, KEVIN NASH, HOLLYWOOD HOGAN, AND X-PAC. I am sorry, but in 2002 if the NWO was a stock, I wouldn't put all my money in there. The filling out of the NWO is to ensure that if one (or multiple) guys go down there is still some clout with 2-3 members still being orginial while not having to job out and eat pinfalls every week (a current problem with WWE tv today). In a perfect world, I 100% agree with you that NWO should have just been those 5 guys with Vince calling the shots and no one else. But again in 2002 there is no way in hell I would trust 3 of the 5 guys to see that year through without some kinda drama/contract re-negotiations/walk-outs/etc. occurring.

 

I think WWE would have gotten more out of the org. 3 if Hogan, Hall, and Nash all only wrestled 4-5 times that year. No one would have predicted The Plane Ride From Hell happenning, so the booking would have at least protected Nash and Hogan until Nash got injured.

[Slasher]

That is what X-Pac and Show are for. Obviously in the WWE they don't bother protecting Show for whatever reason so he could easily fit the role. Also, I would think throughout the year in 2002 you want to maximize the effect the nWo had. Vince purportedly brought them in to kill his creation. Shouldn't that mean they have to kinda...kill them foe a while before the chosen faces rise up against them? At the very least they should have been booked similar to how the Shield was booked-being adept in gang warfare and using the numbers advantage. The nWo as an entity shouldn't be doing jobs much if at all. I am not saying the WWE should book them as overly dominant for years and years like WCW did, but come on, a few months isn't asking a lot. I think adding "fall guys" for rhe sake of being fall guys helps no one, least of all the fall guys. The fans are smart enough to know they are jobbing if Maven was booked alongside Nash and Hall in a tag match or whatever. You can have a star studded team who takes very few losses all the while keeping thd storyline somewhat compelling. "Another victim fallen to the nWo...please someone stop them!!" should be the narrative for that year.

[Slasher]

To add: Maven was definitely a decent talker but that doesn't mean anything when its the other guys doing the talking. It isnt like Maven is going to step forward in the nWo crowd in the ring delivering their promos. I did like the angle they did at the Rumble though with Taker. That is the best version of Maven, and that guy isn't nWo material.

[Bierschwale]

I actually would have kept the tag titles as a Raw exclusive belt. With the cruiser title staying on Smackdown, it means each brand would have a world title, a secondary title and a style of wrestling unique to that brand.

 

This is why the Women's title was on RAW.