Mick McManus

[Grimmas]

Discuss here.

[Childs]

Well, Elvis Costello talks about him on the first page of his autobiography.

[Jetlag]

Before I would've said that he is great but lack of footage prevents him from making the cut. But now OJ has unearthed a match from 1962 and I'm not so sure about that anymore. Based on quality he is a near godlike worker and one of the best euro heels. And most of the stuff we have available is from a 50-60 year old. If more ITV vault videos can be made available I imagine his stock would skyrocket for me.

[ohtani's jacket]

If we had more of his 60s stuff available he'd be a surefire lock for the list. Based on his mid-70s work, I could see people having him in the upper reaches of their top 75. The thing about a guy like McManus, and I think this is particularly pertinent in regard to his WON HOF induction, is that he never gets critiqued. A guy like Flair gets a 5 part podcast mini-series made about him and McManus hadn't even had a comment made about him until Childs bumped this thread. That's kind of where we are with Mick despite the fact he was voted into the WON HOF. I almost feel like he got voted in by hearsay more than anything else. On that basis, he's probably not ready to be voted onto the GWE list.

[ohtani's jacket]

I thought this was an old thread that Childs bumped, but apparently Mick was only just nominated. So he's flying even lower under the radar.

[JerryvonKramer]

For some reason I thought he only had a handful matches on tape. That's the truth.

[ohtani's jacket]

Compared to the amount he wrestled it's a handful. But I think it's 30 odd.

[conker8]

People who like Jim Breaks should watch him.

Even in the tag bouts, he is the star.

 

What is the match from 1962 ?

[Dylan Waco]

I haven't seen the 62 match, but there is plenty available to make an argument for his inclusion.

 

McManus is tough for me because I feel like I'm watching the ghost of a great wrestler, instead of an actual great wrestler. He's not a Ray Stevens, where his post-prime is solid enough but shows no flashes of genius. To the contrary I think McManus shows more than flashes. He has very capable matches and performances against a wide variety of guys with varying degrees of skill. He's clearly a very good wrestler at minimum in what is available, probably even a great one in some ways.

 

That said just as he is not a Ray Stevens, he's not a Nick Bockwinkel either. By that I mean that there is no run of all time classic matches and other worldly performances that make him a true elite level wrestler during the era in question. In no way do I mean that as a major criticism. Bock was an anomaly in many respects for a non-lucha worker, and no one can reasonably be expected to perform at that level in their 50's. Still, McManus lacks a defining bout or series of bouts that make me feel like he absolutely has to be on my ballot.

 

Understand that I am not saying he doesn't have worthwhile matches. Some of them are even very good/great (v. Saint, v. Sarjeant, the excellent match v. Grey). But he never comes across as the best guy in the great matches to me, even though I think his schtick was extremely effective, very well worked, and complimented by a look, body language, and facial expressions, that were a notch above what most of the WOS guys were capable of.

 

In his older years he was clearly a very good mechanic, who could get something solid out of just about anyone, and be elevated when he was with an elite. That's to be commended. He also had an authentic star presence, and the ability to control a crowd that makes me believe he could have gotten over anywhere, even in his old age. I know that doesn't matter to many people, but for my purposes it's a plus. I like him a lot, but I don't love him.

 

I do wonder if I would think slightly better of him if I had seen him before Breaks who I think is a more fully developed and dynamic version of McManus in some ways. And I really should try and see the 1962 match. Still, for now he is a maybe leaning slightly in the "no" direction.

[ohtani's jacket]

That was a great post, Dylan, and made me wish you posted more since I'm not that au fait w/ Twitter and podcasts. I'm glad to see someone turn a critical eye on McManus.

 

The ghost analogy is apt. What we're doing with McManus is taking the kind of work where you'd usually say "and he was still doing good stuff after his prime" and using it to formulate our entire opinion of his worth. There's a few things I'd say about that '74-78 footage we have of him. Firstly, if you compare him to the other 50s & 60s wrestlers that wrestled through to that era, McManus stands out as better than most of them. There wasn't that much adaption in WoS. Guys who wrestled through to the late 70s were essentially working the same as they always did. The average TV bout was a four round showcase of a top star. There was an increasing amount of showmanship as the 60s transitioned into the 70s and a new decade took hold, but the difference between McManus in the 60s and 70s is largely athletic along with the fact that his legend grew over time. I don't think McManus was ever one of the better pure workers. My impression is that the likes of Pallo and McManus were generally seen as showmen. I have a copy of their famous Cup Final Day match and McManus looks like the far superior worker, but I don't think he was as good as dozens of other Brit/Euro workers. The feeling is that Preston shot on him for underlying reasons. But there's still something magic about him in the 70s. It's hard to compare him with Nick Bockwinkel as he seems like a cartoon in comparison. It's hard comparing outsiders w/ WoS guys. I'm sure Billy Robinson matches on WoS weren't as serious as his 70s All Japan matches, for example. My barometer w/ McManus was always how does his matches with X worker compare with X worker's bouts with other wrestlers and generally McManus comes up trumps. There's a trade off, obviously. I don't think McManus could have had as good a series w/ Davey Boy Smith as Breaks did, but I don't think Breaks/Kung Fu could ever be as good as McManus/Kung Fu, and as much as I love Breaks carry jobs, beating Breaks wasn't quite the same as beating Mick. Breaks was a far better worker than McManus, but McManus was basically the top heel in the territory until the Daddy/Haystacks era took over and that's not for nothing.

 

As for a defining series of matches, I'm not convinced that McManus vs. Pallo is it despite popular opinion. I don't know if he has one on tape. What he does have is multiple matches with Saint and St. Clair that prove the McManus formula worked more than one time. Repeat doses ought to count for something, IMO.

[GOTNW]

McManus was the most accessible World Of Sport guy for me, possibly because of how much he utilized striking. The spot where he grabs his opponent's tights with the right hand to distract to referee and then chokes him with his left hand is brilliant and-again-redirection in pro wrestling rules! His ear shtick is fine and provides an easy target when it's time for his babyface opponents to do revenge spots though I don't think it has as much substance as say Breaks' nose shtick. Still he will beat on a guy and that is what I like on wrestling and the Saint match is one of the most impressive performances I've ever seen.

[club]

Saw his 62 match with Pallo recently and it really was something. Really enjoyed McManus' performance, basically a quicker, more physically versatile version of his 70s self. I was taken by how different it was in terms of my expectations going in. Was certainly not expecting the level of aggression, McManus to break out a tombstone and Pallo to do the Buddy Rogers/Foley hanged by the ring ropes spot. I enjoyed it immensely but am lacking points of comparison stylistically having seen nothing else from WoS from the 60s, let alone McManus. No posts in this thread doesn't bode well, but it's worth asking - is there any more 60 McManus footage that is reasonably accessible? 

 

[ohtani's jacket]

There is some 60s McManus in the hands of private collectors, and presumably some more in the ITV Sports faults, but nothing that can be accessed with paying an arm and a leg.