Gregor Posted December 3, 2015 Report Share Posted December 3, 2015 The problem with this thread, and all of the other ones like it, is that everyone re-books a reign, territory, etc. with a modern revisionist mentality. "Let's have so-and-so drop the title for a few months to this not over at all but we like him flavor of the month heel." No! That kind of shit did not happen in 1995. In 1998, yes. Now, yes. Back then, no. Bam Bam as a challenger would've been a box office flop, LT loss or not. The guy was never anything more than a midcard act. Like I posted earlier, when he won the ECW World Title, it devalued that belt for me. Don't get me wrong, I liked Bam Bam, but he had a ceiling regardless of whatever "what if" scenarios people want to pose. Virtually the exact scenario that I'm proposing happened in 1996, a year and a half later. The only difference is that it was a 7.5-month reign rather than a 6-month one. It's not did not happen unthinkable for it to have occurred slightly earlier. Even if it were, I'm amused by the idea of half-baked fantasy booking needing to adhere to lousy or outdated WWF protocol. "I was watching back in the day and I didn't think he was world champion material" isn't enough to convince me that a brief run for Bigelow would have been a disaster, at least one worse than the one that actually occurred. I don't know what qualities he had that made him unfit to advance past the midcard in your eyes, but the company was willing to overlook them to put him in their biggest show's hottest angle and most important match that year. That point is mitigated somewhat by the fact that whoever they put there would be someone they viewed as expendable, but he was objectively more than a midcard act to the WWF. The company had Bob Backlund as their top heel for several months just the year before. Bigelow was definitely more over in early 1995 than Backlund had been before his turn and push. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted December 3, 2015 Report Share Posted December 3, 2015 Diesel flopped but no one at the time thought he would. There is no way you can apply eventual circumstance as a driving force why something else should have happened. The only thing that is fair to speculate about is the strength and creativity of his run. Matching him wuth better opponents might have helped. Having the foresight to ensure Diesel is at least a tweener to capitalize on his unique presence might have helped. Having him drop the belt quickly does NOT help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 I'll throw out some ideas. Rumble: Still faces Bret, but Luger wins Rumble. Some point Luger turns heel and so at Mania it's heel Luger vs Diesel. Diesel vs Shawn could be at the first IYH instead of Mania. KOTR could be vs Sid here, after Sid turned on Shawn. Why not have babyface 1-2-3 Kid win the KOTR in an upset role? IYH2 could have Diesel/Shawn vs Sid/Bigelow (Million Dollar Corp.) SummerSlam Diesel goes over Kid, with Diesel playing quasy heel. IYH3 could have Diesel/Shawn vs Kid/Ramon. IYH4 could have the Diesel-Razor match finally with Razor being the heel turning on Kid for hogging the spotlight and maybe pinning Diesel at the last IYH. Survivor Series loses to Bret. Would this be better to get Diesel over? Not sure. Would it produce better matches? Hell yes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruiserBrody Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 A lot of the mid card muck could have been fixed just by Vince allowing some smaller workers to actually not be treated as jabronis. A few SMW additions, plus signing Benoit when he tried out etc etc. They don't have to headline, just be left alone in their own world to have solid undercard matches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dexstar Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 I was 10 at the time and absolutely crushed we didn't get Shawn-UT in that King of the Ring. Either of those guys in a face-face (with Diesel maybe playing a bit more tweener) title match at Summerslam would be more memorable but I don't know that it changes overall business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkdoc Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 tbh i think the idea of bigelow as a midcarder for life is the revisionist-history notion. when he was PRESENTED as a top star, the fans totally bought him as one; witness survivor series '87 or his NJPW career. it's really obvious if you think about it from the perspective of a kid who hasn't totally realized wrestling is fake...he's bigger AND quicker/more athletic than hogan, so of course he can beat anybody! this really goes back to loss's idea of getting over being mostly about winning a lot (with the caveat that you can't beat the wrong guys at the wrong time or else it backfires). not all losses are equal of course, and the LT thing pretty much screwed bam bam, but if that never happened you could totally make him work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 tbh i think the idea of bigelow as a midcarder for life is the revisionist-history notion. when he was PRESENTED as a top star, the fans totally bought him as one; witness survivor series '87 or his NJPW career. it's really obvious if you think about it from the perspective of a kid who hasn't totally realized wrestling is fake...he's bigger AND quicker/more athletic than hogan, so of course he can beat anybody! this really goes back to loss's idea of getting over being mostly about winning a lot (with the caveat that you can't beat the wrong guys at the wrong time or else it backfires). not all losses are equal of course, and the LT thing pretty much screwed bam bam, but if that never happened you could totally make him work. 1987 is his first big league exposure. He was new and fresh then. A clean slate. By 1995, he has tons of baggage. You can't even compare the two. Japan is its own world. What worked in NJPW would not necessarily have worked in the WWF, and vice versa. Apples and oranges completely. He was pushed as a main eventer in ECW, and all that did was devalue the title. No one bought him in that spot. Ditto for his later WCW feud with Goldberg. Hardly revisionist thinking when there's actual proof from later in his career that backs up what I'm saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 Do people think they could have brought Bigelow in to play the Yokozuna role (dominant big man heel champion, not sumo wrestler) in Dec 1992-January 1993? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrainfollower Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 No I don't. I think that needed a fresh face to WWF fans. Vader could have played it though then much better than he did years later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaymeFuture Posted December 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2015 I want to thank everybody for the contributions, we got to read many of them on the show, which is now available at the following link:http://squaredcirclegazette.podbean.com/mf/web/6yfk8e/SCGRadio64-FixingTheWWFin1995.mp3Join us as we attempt to Fix the WWF in 1995! Starting on January 1st, the panel goes through all the pitfalls that faced the company in arguably its worst ever year, and attempt to rebook the company for greater success, planning all the major shows and feuds. We talk about a struggle to find a champion, the lack of hot heels, bad gimmicks and worse decisions. A really fun show this week, check it out and let us know what you think! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm funk Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 Late to this thread, but the obvious problem in 95 was the lack of depth on the heel side and credible challengers for Diesel. I like the idea of turning both Luger and Razor heel. Razor was floundering in the mid-card after losing the IC belt to Jarrett. Luger was completely wasted in the Allied Powers team with Bulldog. The face side was top heavy already with Diesel, Bret, Taker and HBK post-Mania. Backlund was killed dead by the Diesel squash, Owen had had his run on top against Bret, and Jarrett was too chickenshit and comedy to be taken as a WWF Title threat. Luger was ripe for a heel turn at this point. The fans were really behind Bam Bam's face turn, so I wouldn't change that. Now, WWE didn't really do shit with him as a babyface, but they could have. The other major problem was the lack of depth of the roster as a whole, and there wasn't a whole lot out there. This was the year they brought in lots of Smokey Mt. and USWA guys, pushed Barry Horowitz, etc etc. They did bring in some interesting talent like Candido and Sunny, Louie Spicolli, Shane Douglas, Hakushi, Al Snow, Savio Vega and others. They had the opportunity to sign guys like Guerrero, Benoit, Sabu and other indy darlings of the time but passed on them for a variety of reasons (too small, conflicting Japan commitments etc). I'd also, obviously, ditch the New Generation stuff and go in a more serious direction a year-year and a half earlier than they did. The audience was ready for it and both WWF and WCW were slow on the uptake that year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyonthewall2983 Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 My god, a Vader/Bam Bam feud in '96 would have been so much better than that abortion we got with Yoko. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrainfollower Posted December 12, 2015 Report Share Posted December 12, 2015 That is true. Getting your new monster heel by having him face a bigger badder monster heel and having him bump around for him while relying on your manager...........what were they thinking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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