Judy Bagwell Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 they did her wrong, shattering that Princess Di image and turning her into a shameless cougar. but everything they got their filthy hands on eventually turned to shit Christ what a company how did you guys feel about her time there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 they did her wrong, shattering that Princess Di image and turning her into a shameless cougar. Or one might say she was just staying true to the Princess Di gimmick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 I both agree and disagree. I mean, what else were they going to do? The cat was out of the bag on the Savage/Liz divorce, with Savage even writing a letter in WWE Magazine telling the fans it wasn't our fault (like we were their kids, LOL - so bizarre!). Reuniting Savage and Liz in WCW felt hollow, and the Liz heel turn was a genuine shocker at a time there were so few of them. The "pure, wholesome" Liz was an iconic character. But women get older. Liz couldn't play the innocent ingenue forever. Still, I do agree that the "aging harlot" role was beneath her. Not sure what a good middle ground would've been. Even if WCW had kept Liz babyface, they would've found some way to screw that up too. I personally loved the chemistry Lex and Liz had on-camera as cackling heels in the last year or two of WCW. Obviously, that ended very badly for them in real life though. I remember Vince saying that Liz's untimely death never would've happened on his watch, because the WWF would've taken care of her. I kinda wish there was an alternate history with a spiteful Vince bringing Liz back to the WWF after Savage jumped ship to WCW. Would've been real interesting to see if the Ms. Elizabeth character could've translated to anyone other than the Macho Man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMJ Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 I'm with C.S - I'm not sure you can say "Oh, WCW wasted Liz" or "They ruined her gimmick" or anything when, by the time Macho got to WCW, his act wasn't exactly fresh, with or without Elizabeth. They did exactly what they could've done and should've done when they signed her, no more, no less. As beautiful as Elizabeth was, as tremendous as her chemistry with Macho was, it's not like she's a top 5 manager ever. I liked the way she turned on Savage in his feud with Flair in 95', but that was largely due to the tie-in with WM8, not because Elizabeth managing Flair was going to create some legendary promos. She was great arm candy, but she wasn't a "face version" of a Sensational Sherri, capable of getting herself or other talents over when not directly linked to Savage. I like Liz's role in the DDP/Savage feud, for another example, but that's probably because I really like that feud - not because I think Liz or Kimberly were particularly good in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButchReedMark Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 they did her wrong, shattering that Princess Di image and turning her into a shameless cougar. but everything they got their filthy hands on eventually turned to shit Christ what a company how did you guys feel about her time there? The Princess Di image is a shameless one. Just ask father of her child James Hewitt and arsechinned cunt Will Carling, along with countless others. And also, let us not forget how many times fitter Liz was from 1999 onwards compared to her previous days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenese Sarwieh Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 I'm in the "what else were they going to do?" camp. I'll always remember the video package put together of Liz on a swing bearing her soul to Randy about how sorry she was and when Mean Gene wanted to get a response from Savage he didn't say a word, he just walked away. The heel turn added more to his program with Flair. Also I popped huge when she hit DDP over the head with the glass sheet at HH 97. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 I'm more in the "why even bother hiring her?" camp. I've never understood why you'd ever have a manager at ringside who can't take ordinary bumps, and it's not like Liz was any damn good at talking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmmnx Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 I'd take Milf Elizabeth over a lot of other people pulling down big money in WCW at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyonthewall2983 Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 I'll always remember the video package put together of Liz on a swing bearing her soul to Randy about how sorry she was and when Mean Gene wanted to get a response from Savage he didn't say a word, he just walked away. That was an impressive moment, kind of a sad bookend to the reunion at WM 7. It would probably be more fondly remembered if they didn't stick them together later on. I remember Vince saying that Liz's untimely death never would've happened on his watch, because the WWF would've taken care of her. I kinda wish there was an alternate history with a spiteful Vince bringing Liz back to the WWF after Savage jumped ship to WCW. Would've been real interesting to see if the Ms. Elizabeth character could've translated to anyone other than the Macho Man. Vince adding his two cents to what happened really felt scummy at the time, because it read to me as him still being upset with Luger over what happened in '95. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boondocks Kernoodle Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 The cat was out of the bag on the Savage/Liz divorce, with Savage even writing a letter in WWE Magazine telling the fans it wasn't our fault (like we were their kids, LOL - so bizarre!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 I remember Vince saying that Liz's untimely death never would've happened on his watch, because the WWF would've taken care of her. I kinda wish there was an alternate history with a spiteful Vince bringing Liz back to the WWF after Savage jumped ship to WCW. Would've been real interesting to see if the Ms. Elizabeth character could've translated to anyone other than the Macho Man. Vince adding his two cents to what happened really felt scummy at the time, because it read to me as him still being upset with Luger over what happened in '95. Eh Vince always took an opportunity to tell people how WCW didn't know how to book people properly like he would. He said that the Big Show wasn't booked properly like a special attraction like he did with Andre. We saw what Vince really ended up doing with Paul Wight and it wasn't any better. He said that WCW would never know what to do with Bret Hart which was true after all. He always had that mindset that he knew best and seeing characters he created or cultivated get turned completely around in WCW, of course he would criticize all of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 The cat was out of the bag on the Savage/Liz divorce, with Savage even writing a letter in WWE Magazine telling the fans it wasn't our fault (like we were their kids, LOL - so bizarre!). [WWE Magazine clip] That was as odd as I remember it. I'll eat ten Slim Jims in a row if that's really Macho's handwriting, LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenjo Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 I remember Vince saying that Liz's untimely death never would've happened on his watch, because the WWF would've taken care of her. Nobody took care of their Independent Contractors quite like the WWE. Apart from the Mafia perhaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidebottom Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 Randy Savage apparently had handwriting like a cool font. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyonthewall2983 Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 Eh Vince always took an opportunity to tell people how WCW didn't know how to book people properly like he would. He said that the Big Show wasn't booked properly like a special attraction like he did with Andre. We saw what Vince really ended up doing with Paul Wight and it wasn't any better. He said that WCW would never know what to do with Bret Hart which was true after all. He always had that mindset that he knew best and seeing characters he created or cultivated get turned completely around in WCW, of course he would criticize all of it. WCW flubbed the ball a bit with Paul Wight but by letting him do the more athletic acrobatic stuff he stood out. As far as Bret goes, quite honestly if you have guys like Flair, Piper, Nash, Savage and DDP doing promos in a more free-form style than what Vince was doing, someone like Bret who never was a great talker would get lost in the shuffle. Really, what could they have done with him that hadn't been done already by then anyway? Bret's best move would have been to have joined the company much earlier so he'd seem a bit fresh instead of being in the midst of the big exodus of talent from McMahon to Turner. Vince's quote about Elizabeth seems to go beyond just criticizing the content of their show, but criticizing the protection they had towards the talent. Which in the context of what happened is ridiculous, because WCW was out of business for a good couple years when she died. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judy Bagwell Posted March 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 I cant even begin to speculate on how the WWE would have booked her through the Attitude era, given Russos pathological hatred of women it would have been messy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyonthewall2983 Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 Russo got to book her anyway. Didn't she actually work matches at one point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotJayTabb Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 I seem to remember Elizabeth whacking Russo with a baseball bat at one point (I think he'd kidnapped her) so her WCW run wasn't totally without merit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButchReedMark Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 I remember her looking really uncomfortable taking a delayed atomic drop from someone (Hogan?) constantly pulling her dress down so no-one could see her knickers. So it was pretty clear she didn't want to be in a position where she'd be working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 they did her wrong, shattering that Princess Di image and turning her into a shameless cougar. but everything they got their filthy hands on eventually turned to shit Christ what a company how did you guys feel about her time there? The Princess Di image is a shameless one. Just ask father of her child James Hewitt and arsechinned cunt Will Carling, along with countless others. And also, let us not forget how many times fitter Liz was from 1999 onwards compared to her previous days. Lad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButchReedMark Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 Evidently I'm Richard Keys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childs Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 I found trashier Liz attractive. Not sure what that says about me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 I also dig trashier Liz. I've got a wife at home and prefer to see something different when browsing, even if I can only look Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 Evidently I'm Richard Keys. I was out in Cardiff for a stag do last weekend and those Cardiff girls aren't shy. Did make me stop and think though, we are all in our thirties now and could have pulled about 20 times over and yet no one is single. When I think back to what twats we were 18-21, and it feels like the world is perverse. Anyway, yeah WCW Liz was hotter. I bought that she'd been up all night with the nature boy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButchReedMark Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 Oh god, Cardiff. Flashbacks to the BO infested rooms of Sweatros. I only go down there for the Rugby these days. My clubbing days are long over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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