Booker's Dream: Any Era, Any Promotion?

[JerryvonKramer]

Disclaiminer: this didn't start out as a thread idea, but just kinda took on a life of its own as I was replying to funkdoc.

 

t's always been more natural for me to put myself in the shoes of the general manager or booker, and the question i ask is more like "if i were the one bringing in talent, would i be begging to have this guy?" that leads me to try and strip all surrounding context for evaluations, as well as one can anyway. this seems to be a rare approach for wrestling criticism, but maybe i'm missing something.

I think I did once describe Ted DiBiase as a "booker's dream" and argued he'd be a super high draft pick among bookers, any era, any context, any promotion, just because he could literally perform any role on the roster and get over any angle you ever wanted. He also had good size and good athleticism. He could talk, he could go, work face, work heel, work tags, gimmick matches, brawls, main event, mid-card, carry a promotion, just be a side dish, put someone over, put himself over. You name the function the booker could ask of him, and he'd carry it out with minimal back-chat. Also popular with and respected by the boys. Kind of the ultimate pro wrestling employee in that respect.

 

When I asked Dave about about Ted, it's actually this quality of being able to get anything over that he pointed to:

 

 

"The Booker's Dream". I guess if he came through a few years later Vince might have wanted him to work out more to get a more stacked upper body, but there are plenty of guys who went through the 90s, 00s and 10s without that being muscled up.

 

Now I'm thinking about it, I can't think of too many other guys in that bracket. Actually, this might make a good thread to think about...

 

Who ELSE other that Ted could be said to be a "booker's dream" in this way. It's is a more rare mix of in- and out-of-ring skills, build and personality type in wrestling than it might first appear.

 

I can think of reasons for and against some other guys:

 

Flair - too big of a personality to (for example) shunt across to the tag division when required.

 

Funk - doesn't have the staying power, and so can't really stick around for the long haul, coming and going is built into his act

 

Lawler - similar to Flair in that he works best when you build things around him.

 

Eddie - has all of the right skills, but probably too small to get over in, for example, 70s New York. I don't see them booking him against Bruno.

 

Shawn - also too small for "any era"

 

Bryan - ditto, probably not got the mic skills to get over any angle either

 

Benoit - ditto on both counts

 

Jericho - maybe? He's also a little on the small side at 227lbs, but I think he's the closest so far.

 

Windham - he has the ring skills and the right build but I wonder about his mic skills, do you see him leading a heel stable and doing well enough to carry the main feuds of a promotion? I think he comes close.

 

Dustin Rhodes - also think he has the right mix of in-ring skills and build, not the best promo, but he's solid enough. I guess where we'd have to think, similiar to Windham, is if he could really carry a promotion.

 

Bock - I guess the main question with Bock is similar to Flair and Lawler, can you buy him shunting down the card? He did work in tag-teams for a long stretch of his career. I also wonder about Bock the babyface. He was a fun babyface in that AWA run, but so much of it was predicated on him being the "better the devil you know" vs. Larry Z.

 

HHH - have a real think about him for a moment. His biggest problems come from how he was booked and how he worked as a heel, but I can honestly imagine all the old promoters liking him. I'm thinking about a HHH booked by Watts or Giant Baba. He'd have to work on his promos to be more serviceable in the 80s, but actually I wonder if he's ticking a lot of boxes? Dylan?

 

Rick Martel - main issue is that he's not a great promo and talks with an accent, and also is so much better as a face.

 

Steamboat - can't work heel, difficult wife

 

Rude - can't work face, often had heat with the boys and the office, bit of a "heatseeker".

 

Austin - if you take him as "Stunning Steve" maybe, but assuming you transition him to main event and he gets over with what got him over in real life, hard to imagine shunting him back down the card or shuffling him into a tag-team as and when required.

 

Jake - has the out-of-ring skills, but probably not the in-ring skills to fulfill all the different roles needed. He's actually a stronger pick for this than many so far though, excepting addiction issues.

 

Dick Murdoch - Right mix of skills in and out of ring. I think perhaps "too southern" to work as a truly top guy in New York, and I don't think his physique would have gotten over in the past 15-20 years. Perhaps seens as "trouble" by the office.

 

I'll stop here. Consider more names and consider what they are able realisitically to do. Think about what is asked of workers from bookers in different time periods. Who else is a "booker's dream"?

[Grimmas]

CM Punk is up there with DiBiase. He's a great promo, can have great matches as face or heel, can be up and down the card and can do everything. Heck I'd take Punk over DiBiase.

[SlingshotSuplex]

Tully and Arn. Backbone of a promotion guys who can work and talk. Can carry the ball on TV and on house shows. Can get over on their own and unselfishly get others over.

[JerryvonKramer]

CM Punk is up there with DiBiase. He's a great promo, can have great matches as face or heel, can be up and down the card and can do everything. Heck I'd take Punk over DiBiase.

At 218lbs, do you see him main-eventing in New York in the 1970s?

 

The NWA guys tended to work closer to the 235lb mark. He's a wee bit on the small side, and would have to overcome odds in certain eras. Hard to imagine a 1980s Vince Jr putting him in the main event.

 

Tully and Arn. Backbone of a promotion guys who can work and talk. Can carry the ball on TV and on house shows. Can get over on their own and unselfishly get others over.

Do you see Tully or Arn as being able to work babyface at the top of a card?

 

I know Tully did do that for his father. Do you see 80s Vince Jr putting either guy in the main event?

 

Do you think Tully could have main evented MSG in the 1970s? He's also on the small side.

[conker8]

Bob Armstrong. He could do it all.

[jcmmnx]

Cena has to be up there.

[goc]

Bob Armstrong. He could do it all.

I was trying to think of an answer and didn't think of Bob but since you bring him up, yea. Could work anywhere on the card, could do tags, could be heel or face and had the promo skills to get over anything you needed.

[Cross Face Chicken Wing]

I'm going to go with a bit of a wildcard and say Bam Bam Bigelow. Great look. Huge guy who could do a lot of things only smaller guys typically do. Isn't the GOAT at any one particular aspect of working, but is pretty damn good in most categories. Can work monster heel or ass-kicking babyface. Maybe wouldn't be able to draw any sympathy heat working babyface in 70s or 80s New York, but you never know. Can have a good match and get just about any opponent over (See LT match from Mania).

 

Of course, Bigelow's case would be stronger if he stayed put in one area for any amount of time. His unreliability outside the ring probably disqualifies him as being a "booker's dream," but I'm going to stick with him.

[JerryvonKramer]

 

Bob Armstrong. He could do it all.

I was trying to think of an answer and didn't think of Bob but since you bring him up, yea. Could work anywhere on the card, could do tags, could be heel or face and had the promo skills to get over anything you needed.

 

He's a good pick, how do you see him getting over up north or in Japan?

 

I ask that for obvious reasons. Seems like a guy tied to a particular region more than most.

[Grimmas]

So we have to take into account Booker's stupid preferences?

[Goodear]

CM Punk is also a malcontent who wouldn't be happy unless he was pushed as King of the Shits.

 

I would actually recommend Ray Traylor who worked up and down the card in WWF from top of the card heel, to heel tag team worker with Akeem, to sidekick to the champ as Hogan's buddy during the Earthquake feud, and midcard face working non title programs which still got over. Guy could sell his ass off to the point he could work underneath smaller guys (like Ted) and obviously put over monster heels like Vader while still man up and walk tall. He was also a good bully heel who could manhandle little dudes and bring the hate with the nightstick gimmick. The guy even worked as a job guy in NWA and as the silent bodyguard gimmick with Jim Cornette. Finally you have his bombastic cartoon super villain run as SWAT Team Bossman where you might think it was dumb (it WAS) but still his performance was clearly what the character called for being dramatically over-the-top.

[JerryvonKramer]

I'm going to go with a bit of a wildcard and say Bam Bam Bigelow. Great look. Huge guy who could do a lot of things only smaller guys typically do. Isn't the GOAT at any one particular aspect of working, but is pretty damn good in most categories. Can work monster heel or ass-kicking babyface. Maybe wouldn't be able to draw any sympathy heat working babyface in 70s or 80s New York, but you never know. Can have a good match and get just about any opponent over (See LT match from Mania).

 

Of course, Bigelow's case would be stronger if he stayed put in one area for any amount of time. His unreliability outside the ring probably disqualifies him as being a "booker's dream," but I'm going to stick with him.

I think the main problems for Bigelow were what actually plagued him through his actual career: he's someone who often found himself on the wrong side of the office. You've seen that all.

 

It really is quite difficult to do this. The check list is something like:

 

- In-ring can go with anyone

- Work face / heel

- Up and down card, main event, mid-card or tags

- Any sort of match

- Good on mic

- Good enough an actor to get over any angle

- Good relations with the boys

- Good relations with the office

- Big enough that he'd have gotten over in New York 70s / WWF in the 80s

 

Bigelow is a really nice outside-of-the-box pick, but he's let down by his politics.

[goc]

 

 

Bob Armstrong. He could do it all.

I was trying to think of an answer and didn't think of Bob but since you bring him up, yea. Could work anywhere on the card, could do tags, could be heel or face and had the promo skills to get over anything you needed.

 

He's a good pick, how do you see him getting over up north or in Japan?

 

I ask that for obvious reasons. Seems like a guy tied to a particular region more than most.

 

He'd have done fine up north because he was a good enough talker. I really think he's one of the best promos of all time he just doesn't get put into that discussion because not a lot of people have gone out of their way to watch Southeastern/Continental. And there is no footage of the Fred Ward stuff where he was also a top guy.

 

Japan is more of a question mark so I can only say maybe.

[JerryvonKramer]

CM Punk is also a malcontent who wouldn't be happy unless he was pushed as King of the Shits.

 

I would actually recommend Ray Traylor who worked up and down the card in WWF from top of the card heel, to heel tag team worker with Akeem, to sidekick to the champ as Hogan's buddy during the Earthquake feud, and midcard face working non title programs which still got over. Guy could sell his ass off to the point he could work underneath smaller guys (like Ted) and obviously put over monster heels like Vader while still man up and walk tall. He was also a good bully heel who could manhandle little dudes and bring the hate with the nightstick gimmick. The guy even worked as a job guy in NWA and as the silent bodyguard gimmick with Jim Cornette. Finally you have his bombastic cartoon super villain run as SWAT Team Bossman where you might think it was dumb (it WAS) but still his performance was clearly what the character called for being dramatically over-the-top.

Think this is a really good pick actually. I he proved he could work Japan in his actual career. Can absolutely see him in the modern era too.

 

Two thumbs up!

[JerryvonKramer]

So we have to take into account Booker's stupid preferences?

I think you have to assume that the bookers were who they were in real life with all their prejudices and short-comings.

 

Vince Sr wouldn't have booked Punk against Bruno. I very much doubt Jr would have booked him against Hogan. I also think Vince's "too Southern" hang up is a real consideration for a lot of guys.

[Migs]

 

CM Punk is up there with DiBiase. He's a great promo, can have great matches as face or heel, can be up and down the card and can do everything. Heck I'd take Punk over DiBiase.

At 218lbs, do you see him main-eventing in New York in the 1970s?

 

The NWA guys tended to work closer to the 235lb mark. He's a wee bit on the small side, and would have to overcome odds in certain eras. Hard to imagine a 1980s Vince Jr putting him in the main event.

 

Tully and Arn. Backbone of a promotion guys who can work and talk. Can carry the ball on TV and on house shows. Can get over on their own and unselfishly get others over.

Do you see Tully or Arn as being able to work babyface at the top of a card?

 

I know Tully did do that for his father. Do you see 80s Vince Jr putting either guy in the main event?

 

Do you think Tully could have main evented MSG in the 1970s? He's also on the small side.

 

 

Dibiase was very borderline in terms of size in 80s WWF - so I'm not sure why it would necessarily disqualify these three guys when they were only slightly smaller than Ted. I guess you could say that Ted was just above some imaginary line and these guys were just below it, but I don't think it's such an either/or.

[goc]

Ted is a lot taller than Arn & Tully. Ted only looks small when you stick him next to Andre or Hogan.

[Migs]

 

Austin - if you take him as "Stunning Steve" maybe, but assuming you transition him to main event and he gets over with what got him over in real life, hard to imagine shunting him back down the card or shuffling him into a tag-team as and when required.

 

 

 

 

I think he was caught in a pretty weird situation in real life in the latter part of his run (with the Invasion happening, the Rock emerging, his body giving out almost immediately after) - if you put him in a hypothetical without those issues, I think he's fine moving back down the card and being a side player. He'd certainly be better at it than Hogan or Flair.

[JerryvonKramer]

 

 

CM Punk is up there with DiBiase. He's a great promo, can have great matches as face or heel, can be up and down the card and can do everything. Heck I'd take Punk over DiBiase.

At 218lbs, do you see him main-eventing in New York in the 1970s?

 

The NWA guys tended to work closer to the 235lb mark. He's a wee bit on the small side, and would have to overcome odds in certain eras. Hard to imagine a 1980s Vince Jr putting him in the main event.

 

Tully and Arn. Backbone of a promotion guys who can work and talk. Can carry the ball on TV and on house shows. Can get over on their own and unselfishly get others over.

Do you see Tully or Arn as being able to work babyface at the top of a card?

 

I know Tully did do that for his father. Do you see 80s Vince Jr putting either guy in the main event?

 

Do you think Tully could have main evented MSG in the 1970s? He's also on the small side.

 

Dibiase was very borderline in terms of size in 80s WWF - so I'm not sure why it would necessarily disqualify these three guys when they were only slightly smaller than Ted. I guess you could say that Ted was just above some imaginary line and these guys were just below it, but I don't think it's such an either/or.

 

 

Ted is a lot taller than Arn & Tully. Ted only looks small when you stick him next to Andre or Hogan.

Ted was 6'3 and about 260lbs. One of those guys who is bigger than you'd think.

 

There's a pretty big gap between 218lbs and 260lbs.

[Goodear]

Ted's billed at 6'3" so only comparative to the giants of WWF is he a little guy. He works as a Hogan opponent the same way that a Paul Orndorff or Randy Savage would. He kind of worked small like a Dustin Rhodes in that he didn't typically physically dominate because he was working big guys typically even in World Class as Watts tended to like the bigger dudes.

 

Speaking of which, I think Punk sort of worked larger than he was and could have been in a Roddy Piper-esque position in WWF in the 80s as the motor mouth douche. I can certainly imagine him hosting a Punk's Pit and being over in a setting where he got to talk a lot which is the key component to success in the 80s. He certainly could have worked Flair in the NWA with minimal effort as a counter culture adversary.

[Matt D]

I could make so much money with Brazo de Plata

[JerryvonKramer]

At 6'2, 230lbs, with ELECTRIC charisma, Roddy Piper is just about the smallest guy who Vince programmed against Hogan in 1980s, and even then he initially brought him in as a manager.

 

But I think if you were to make an argument for Punk getting over in that environment, there's your closest precedent.

 

Still wonder about Vince Sr. booking him against Bruno or Backlund. More difficult to imagine. Pat Patterson is about the smallest guy I can think of who was put there at 6'1, 240lbs. And he was a super-duper worker, which Punk wasn't.

[Cross Face Chicken Wing]

I never thought of Punk during his WWE peak or WWF Ted as smaller guys. This sounds insane (and it is) but I think having a beard makes you seem bigger.

[El Boricua]

Sgt. Slaughter

[Luchaundead]

Chris Hero: Not only can he easy deliver matches with anyone at any card placement but he's been shown to be an asset for every part of a wrestling business. Hero has trained or helped train countless guys so he'd be helping you build your future stars. Hero can cut believable promos as face or heel and as dominate ace or working his way up underdog. Hero is great on commentary, ever since Steen got signed to the WWE Hero on PWG commentary brings a great mix of comedy and seriously putting the work other something that at times was lacking in the promotion. Hero also has a great mind for booking over all story-lines and interesting spots and finishes so you could use him as a sounding board to help you work through idea. He's got size may not be in the most aesthetic shape but he's got great wind and when focused has shown he can look even better and he's over 6 foot and can work fantastic matches with smaller and bigger men.

 

So I say Chris Hero is the ultimate bookers dream.