Reactions to the Honorable Mention List, Part 3

[Grimmas]

My primary motivation for keeping track is to beat both Steven and Chad, because I'm competitive about everything.

 

I don't even know what "beating" means in this context, just want to win.

Its not been a good day for me and I will lose 5 more tomorrow.

[Yo-Yo's Roomie]

Great Puma is ResidentEvil, right? So that's either DK or Benoit with at least one number one vote.

[El-P]

Insane that Jaguar doesn't make the top 100. Just insane. She was my #51. So what's gonna be left for the women ? Toyota I guess with Hokuto and hopefully Aja & Bull.

[Witlon]

Three more fall just like that, while The Rock and Undertaker stay on the board. It's not like I didn't expect it, but I'm definitely disappointed.

 

56. Wahoo McDaniel (115)
70. Jaguar Yokota (114)
73. Jerry Blackwell (118)

[Grimmas]

Insane that Jaguar doesn't make the top 100. Just insane. She was my #51. So what's gonna be left for the women ? Toyota I guess with Hokuto and hopefully Aja & Bull.

Toyota, Hokuto, Aja and Bull are still to come, as you said. Plus Chigusa.

 

Since those are probably the 5 best women, that makes sense.

[Matt D]

Scarlet-Left wins I think. He's got the most interesting list but is still entirely earnest about it.

[El-P]

Toyota is one of the best woman if Shawn Michaels is one of the best man. Basically anything outside classic era Zenjo big names got shortchanged. Joshi fell out of fashion so it shouldn't be surprising.

 

Still, with all this talk of footage explosion, it seems to me the Top 100 will be very conservative, US guy oriented + the usual suspects.

[JerryvonKramer]

Sting my 22nd soldier.

[Matt D]

Toyota is one of the best woman if Shawn Michaels is one of the best man. Basically anything outside classic era Zenjo big names got shortchanged. Joshi fell out of fashion so it shouldn't be surprising.

 

Still, with all this talk of footage explosion, it seems to me the Top 100 will be very conservative, US guy oriented + the usual suspects.

Placements aside, 101-200 was much more interesting than 100 will be in that regard.

 

It will be a very interesting top 200 list though.

[victory]

This was a rough round. Blackwell and Wahoo both gone. So close yet so far.

 

And now Sting. What a horrible day this is.

[Childs]

I think some of the griping and frustration is that there is a sense that the last 18 months of discussion was for "nothing," when results pop up that aren't representative of the discussion in the Nominees thread at all.

 

It does make for a better, broader more credible list in some ways.

 

Something like Malenko, though, where there was so much discussion over the last few years pulling him down from his pillar and barely any defense of him and that barely registering or mattering. There is a sense of "Well, what was the point if this was just going to be the result anyway," full of people who were obviously unfamiliar with the discussion or at the very least unmoved by it.

 

It only bothers me so far, but I can see how it could really bother someone else who was thoroughly engaged for months upon months in this.

 

Malenko did fall 34 spots from 2006 though.

 

If I recall correctly, the 2006 countdown was also full of people feeling vexed that the results did not match the discussion. So perhaps it's just endemic to this process.

[El-P]

Sting above Jaguar Yokota. I don't remember any huge Sting pimping during the process either, how did he got so fucking high anyway ?

[Matt D]

 

I think some of the griping and frustration is that there is a sense that the last 18 months of discussion was for "nothing," when results pop up that aren't representative of the discussion in the Nominees thread at all.

 

It does make for a better, broader more credible list in some ways.

 

Something like Malenko, though, where there was so much discussion over the last few years pulling him down from his pillar and barely any defense of him and that barely registering or mattering. There is a sense of "Well, what was the point if this was just going to be the result anyway," full of people who were obviously unfamiliar with the discussion or at the very least unmoved by it.

 

It only bothers me so far, but I can see how it could really bother someone else who was thoroughly engaged for months upon months in this.

 

Malenko did fall 34 spots from 2006 though.

 

If I recall correctly, the 2006 countdown was also full of people feeling vexed that the results did not match the discussion. So perhaps it's just endemic to this process.

 

Falling 34 spots feels more like a natural response to the bigger pool, etc. He didn't keep up relatively, but he didn't fall on his own merits or lack thereof or any real reevaluation that seemed to matter.

[anarchistxx]

Amazed Sting managed to work his way upwards in the past decade. Not as if any of his pimped stuff is obscure, and he certainly hasn't added to his case in the meantime. Especially galling when Jaguar Yokota drops about a hundred places to finish behind him. Shame, she has been involved in some of my absolute favorite matches of all time.

[Eegah]

Great Sasuke down. Wahoo down. Really thought theyd both be in the top 100. Its getting more and more interesting.

[Grimmas]

Sting was actually pretty damn good in TNA. People liked the Rollins match.

[Loss]

We haven't even gotten to the top 100 yet! I'm not about to complain about how the list is going. Do you guys realize how much of an accomplishment it is for relatively new "discoveries" or against-the-grain type picks to even show up in the top 200? It's significant, not at all something that should make anyone feel like this project is a failure. It's a massive sign of success! Carlos Colon is still in this thing! Buddy Rose is still in this thing! Imagine either of those happening in 2006.

 

There have been thousands upon thousands of wrestlers in history. That the voters think a wrestler is one of the top 200 of all time is high, high praise. Keep perspective.

[jaedmc]

Sasuke was the first to crack 50 ballots, right?

 

I think he's easy Top 100, so I'm dissappointed. He's kinda the Terry Funk of juniors, in terms of career development.

[Matt D]

Sting was actually pretty damn good in TNA. People liked the Rollins match.

And I'm going to say that this, along with Hogan, Dusty, etc, is much more about workrate not being the end all king that it was ten years ago. There's value in a different sort of babyface performances than Steamboat in Savage vs Steamboat and that's more appreciated now.

 

Sting is not on my list, mind you.

[anarchistxx]

 

 

There have been thousands upon thousands of wrestlers in history. That the voters think a wrestler is one of the top 200 of all time is high, high praise. Keep perspective.

 

I mean, this doesn't change the fact that Christian and The Undertaker are going to finish ahead of Jaguar Yokota and Kyoko Inoue. It doesn't bother me really, especially since I took next to no part in the discussion/nomination process. Complaints are just a natural part of discussion. Doesn't mean people are genuinely pissed off or that they consider the list of a failure. The nature of the rollout is that we will debate and criticise the merits of the placings.

 

Anyway, I was the high vote on Matt Sydal and didn't list a single lucha worker, so I'll shut up.

[JerryvonKramer]

Matt when so many voters were not PWOers, I'm not sure there are any lessons or conclusions to draw from the results and I say that expecting Flair will finish #1

 

I said months ago that the results won't mean much. Just enjoying the reveals.

[Grimmas]

We haven't even gotten to the top 100 yet! I'm not about to complain about how the list is going. Do you guys realize how much of an accomplishment it is for relatively new "discoveries" or against-the-grain type picks to even show up in the top 200? It's significant, not at all something that should make anyone feel like this project is a failure. It's a massive sign of success! Carlos Colon is still in this thing! Buddy Rose is still in this thing! Imagine either of those happening in 2006.

 

There have been thousands upon thousands of wrestlers in history. That the voters think a wrestler is one of the top 200 of all time is high, high praise. Keep perspective.

Folks still to come in 2006:

110. Dusty Rhodes – 450 points – 10 votes – 1 top 5 vote – 1 top 10 vote - VHB Rob Naylor #4

115. Jim Breaks – 393 points – 7 votes – VHB Bix #11

129. Atushi Onita – 315 points – 10 votes – VHB Theseus #35

136. Bill Dundee – 270 points – 7 votes – VHB Bix #44

137. Dustin Rhodes – 262 points – 8 votes – VHB FLIK #42

145. 2 Cold Scorpio – 243 points – 10 votes – VHB Mr Dragon #32

153. Roddy Piper – 223 points – 7 votes – VHB gordi #46

164. Andre the Giant – 199 points – 5 votes – VHB Rob Naylor #35

174. Yuki Ishikawa – 175 points – 6 votes – VHB Theseus #25

239. Buddy Rose – 73 points – 3 votes – VHB Bix #66

245. Daisuke Ikeda – 70 points – 3 votes – VHB Theseus #43

250. Low Ki – 65 points – 3 votes – VHB Ditch #49

264. Sean Waltman – 52 points – 3 votes – VHB Mr Dragon #80

294. Yoshihiro Tajiri – 26 points – 2 votes – VHB Mr Dragon, Theseus #88

298. Carlos Colon – 16 points – 2 votes – VHB Floyd #89 \

364. Virus – 19 points – 1 vote – VHB Rob Naylor #82

[Yo-Yo's Roomie]

Toyota is one of the best woman if Shawn Michaels is one of the best man. Basically anything outside classic era Zenjo big names got shortchanged. Joshi fell out of fashion so it shouldn't be surprising.

 

Still, with all this talk of footage explosion, it seems to me the Top 100 will be very conservative, US guy oriented + the usual suspects.

 

That's always the case in these kinds of things though. Look at the film projects at DVDVR. You'll get OJ and a few others talking about stuff like Hou Hsiao-Hsien or Kusturica, but it's still going to be Shawshank and Goodfellas and the like at the top.

[Loss]

I know the debate and critique is natural. I was responding to the complaints about non-PWO voters and such.

 

I also think it's important to remember when praising wrestlers that aren't part of established canon that the legwork is harder. Saying something like, "Oh, CIMA has been great for 15 years" without walking through each year of his career and pointing out why while recommending a few dozen matches probably won't cut it. On the flip side, people like Sting who are loved at a level disproportionate to their abilities should have probably been hit harder in their threads.

[van_Fair]

The way this is going makes me wonder if some of the guys that were seen as candidates for number 1 like Lawler and Terry Funk end up way lower on the list than expected.