Does "inside" knowledge sometimes hurt?

[sek69]

I was watching the Looney Tunes Golden Collection 3 today, listening to the commentary tracks and learning about the history behind the cartoons we all grew up with. One of the things you learn is that Bob Clampett (director of some of the early Bugs Bunny cartoons, among others) claimed he was the sole creator of Bugs Bunny, much to the chagrin of the other famous directors who had more of a hand in the creation. Fast forward to today and there's a group of people like Ren and Stimpy creator John K who worship the ground Clampett walks on and takes the time on his commentary on the Golden Collection to bash other directors at every opportunity. Why? Mainly because history's shown Clampett was a dick and a lot of the people who worked with him have gone on the record saying so over the last 50 years.

 

You may be wondering where the wrestling tie-in comes in, and it's here: Some folks, after learning the behind the scenes stories, no longer feel the same way about the cartoons they grew up watching as a kid and I wonder if that doesn't happen with wrestling as well. An unfortunate part of the smartening up process is an awareness of the politics and other assorted bullshit that goes into what ends up shown on TV every week. I know every one of us has had their enjoyment of a show or match ruined just a little knowing that in a match between A and B, B is going to win because there's no way he'd agree to job for A. Things like that take you out of the atmosphere the workers are trying to create, and it ends up making fans more cynical and jaded. I know there's times where I wish I didn't know so much about the inner workings of the business, and I wonder what it would be like watching the last decade or so of wrestling through the eyes of someone not so "aware". Not someone who thinks everything's legit, just someone who doesn't read the sheets or go to message boards and websites.

 

Nothing symbolizes this feeling as much as the last episode of Nitro. I knew from reading websites that Vince bought WCW and would probably appear on the last episode. Had I not known that, that show would have taken on a much different tone for me. As such, I pretty much knew what to expect and when it happened I was just "meh" instead of marking out.

 

So I guess my question is this: Would you trade the "insider" knowledge you've gained for the ability to watch wrestling the way you did before you knew about politics and such?

[Loss]

Wrestling has literally fallen apart at the seams since 1999. Look at how many top stars we had then and how many we had now. Look at WCW and ECW dying, and WWE going from a strong wrestling company to a joke. Look at all the wrestlers that have dropped dead or had their careers cut short by negligence and sloppiness. It's hard to blame fans for being jaded or cynical when so many bad news items for wrestling fans have occured in the past 5-6 years.

 

I can still be surprised by a good storyline when it presents itself, so I wouldn't say it's been a detriment for me personally. When learning more about wrestling ever starts making me like it less instead of increasing my interest in it, that's the moment I'll stop watching completely. Some have already made that decision, and more power to them.

[Strummer]

from personal experiences, I knew several people growing up who absolutely loved wrestling and when they found out it was worked it just killed it for them and they stopped watching.

 

I've found out that there are several fans who still want to think wrestling is real no matter what. I think every smart fan still knows these kind of people. And no I won't go for an easy "It's still real to me man!" joke. I know several people in their 20's who despite my constant smart talk still hold on to the belief when deep down they know it's a work.

 

My passion for wrestling skyrocketed when I came on the net in 97. I don't really ever want to be a mark again. I like knowing inside terms and having backstage knowledge.

[The Thread Killer]

To me, it's always sad when I find out that a character I bought into was a jerk when the cameras weren't rolling. I was sad when I heard that Brody and Onita were both jerks...since both of those guys were characters I liked. I was also saddened when I heard that both Misawa and Kawada hated Americans. Sometimes it's better not knowing what your favorite stars or wrestlers are "really" like off stage. The myth is almost always better than the truth.

[goodhelmet]

If I wasn't engaged in the backstage stuff or know beyond what I thought I knew then I would have stopped watching in 1999. I hated both products (WCW & WWE)until I discovered the internet, star ratings, the match within the match, and so forth. To me, it is the funny thing about wrestling. I have changed the reasons I watch several times in my life. It just happens that now I don't watch to see who wins or loses but how that affects the match itself and how it affects the person's standing in the company. I actually enjoy watching wrestling from this perspective.

[Guest Famous Mortimer]

I wouldn't want my eyes closing again. I still watch films I've seen before because I know I'm going to like them. Same with a wrestling show where I've got a good idea what's going to happen. The big thing that's spoiled my enjoyment of WWE is WWE.

[JHawk]

Knowing the behind the scenes stuff after the fact doesn't change how I felt about the match itself. Maybe it changes how I feel about the people involved, but not the match itself.

 

However, I simply cannot watch TV wrestling if I know what's going to happen ahead of time. It's one thing to miss a PPV and watch it two months later knowing what happens. It's another when you sit down for a live Raw and every website even remotely involved with wrestling has a giant "TRIPLE H TO WIN TITLE TONIGHT" headline right on the front page.

 

Best case in point. My favorite match of the year is the Royal Rumble. The fun used to be the speculation of who was going to win. Now it gets leaked weeks ahead of time, and there's absolutely no fun in it.

[Coffey]

Of all the wrestling forums that I go to, this is probably the best topic created right now. It's a really thin line, however the differing opinions on the subject make it interesting. I've thought about it before. I've thought about both sides of the argument. If I didn't talk about wrestling on-line and read about the "insider" shit and all that, there's a chance I wouldn't even watch anymore. However, there's a chance that might still be a "mark" and enjoy damn near everything that's thrown at me. Instead of looking for psychology in a Benoit match I'd be looking for a Tombstone in an Undertaker match. I don't know, it's tough to say. If I didn't talk about wrestling on-line, how would I vent after a skit like the Armageddon Tim White suicide angle? Would I even need to vent about it?

 

I remember watching WCW when I was still a mark. I liked Goldberg, however I wanted Nash to end the streak. Nash ended the streak and after that PPV, I went home happy. When I found the internet, shortly after that, one of the first things I read about was Nash's backstage politics and Goldberg's inability to work. Instantly my enjoyment of both guys went down as I was "enlightened." If I never would've read that, maybe the nWo or Goldberg coming back to WWE would've been a bigger deal to me. I don't know if I wanted to be enlightened but it wasn't like I could forget what I read.

 

Without the internet, I wouldn't know about Puro. I probably wouldn't know about ROH. TNA would be a "second rate WWE." However, I'd probably not even care because I'd most likely find all the stuff WWE threw at me more entertaining.

 

I don't know how well this relates to the topic at hand but one of the worst things I've encountered after being smartened up to the business it trying to talk to someone that isn't. I went to high school with this kid named Shane. We both watched wrestling, were big marks for the Wolfpack and all that. Then, we graduated and didn't see each other for several years. I got on-line, kept following wrestling and got smartened up. Shane kept following wrestling but didn't get smartened up. We ran into each other a few years later at a bowling alley and were catching up on things when the wrestling conversation started up. His favorite wrestler was Triple H. Now, it's not like I can sit there and start talking about him being married to the head of creative or being the son-in-law of the owner or playing backstage politics. All that mattered to Shane was that Triple H was a bad guy and he won a lot. Just like when we both marked for Hollywood Hogan.

 

Watching wrestling shows with other smart marks, I think, makes the show less enjoyable too. The atmosphere is generally just a lot more negative. Personally, when I watch with a couple of friends, it gets really frustrating when we're watching WWE. It's like, we know what WWE brings to the table. We know that they're more about "entertainment" than wrestling. So, it doesn't make sense for you to complain about the lack of wrestling and talk through all the promos. Raw is pretty much all about the storylines and promos. When we're watching ROH we don't complain about the lack of promos and talk through the matches. It's weird though because I like listening to wrestling related radio shows after a PPV or whatever. I don't mind getting differing opinions but I want to hear them after I form my own opinions. When I watch shows with friends, I think I sway their opinions on the show and vice-versa. I'm curious how they'd turn out if I watched them by myself for awhile. I'm curious what I'd think about the product if I didn't read the internet for awhile. Would I become more positive or do I already know too much? It's not like I can just forget what I've read.

 

I don't know. I liked being a mark but I like expanding my knowledge of the business too. I want all the information that I can get, I guess. I can't just "turn it off" when watching though.

 

To answer the question asked in the topic title: Does "inside" knowledge sometimes hurt? Most definitely.

[sek69]

To me, it's always sad when I find out that a character I bought into was a jerk when the cameras weren't rolling.  I was sad when I heard that Brody and Onita were both jerks...since both of those guys were characters I liked.  I was also saddened when I heard that both Misawa and Kawada hated Americans.  Sometimes it's better not knowing what your favorite stars or wrestlers are "really" like off stage.  The myth is almost always better than the truth.

This is exactly what I was going for, not so much the mark vs smart angle, but when you find out someone you like is an asshole.

 

I've always been a fan of Randy Savage, and I still am. It's hard to look at him the same way once you find out he was a crazy, paranoid asshole who abuses women.

 

The same thing happens with movies too. I never had an opinion on Tom Cruise before, but now when I see one of his flicks I think "there's that asshole who believes in aliens and jumped like a loon on Oprah's couch".

[Loss]

Best case in point.  My favorite match of the year is the Royal Rumble.  The fun used to be the speculation of who was going to win.  Now it gets leaked weeks ahead of time, and there's absolutely no fun in it.

I lay the blame for that on WWE. The problem with the Rumble is that the WM title shot stipulation makes it incredibly obvious who's taking the whole thing. If they did away with that, it would have much more suspense, even if the same guys were put over in the end.

[Mad Dog]

I think they could go a long way to fixing the Royal Rumble by having a Smackdown guy not named Randy Orton win the shot this year. JBL or Rey Misterio winning would be a nice surprise.

 

Also no one in the first 10 entrants should win the Rumble for like the next decade. You have a serious problem when the No.1 entrant is a bigger favorite than the last guy in even in mark eyes.

[sek69]

I've thought for years they should have someone completely random win the Royal Rumble, like Funaki or Lance Cade, just to get back that "Anything Can Happen" atmosphere WWF used to have.

[Guest Alfdogg]

I can't really say the internet's changed my opinion on any of the wrestlers, at least from the standpoint of watching them in the ring. When you get a certain age, you start rooting for the guys who entertain you and not so much "faces or heels", and you eventually find out a lot of the backstage relationships anyway (I knew that Savage was Lanny Poffo's brother and married to Elizabeth, for example).

 

I don't really watch the matches any differently, you still catch the obvious blown spots and what not. I can still put in an old tape and watch it as a fan, and not be bitter because Dibiase was screwed out of the tournament win (I'm just using that as an example, as I always loved Savage, as well). But even a few years ago, I was just discovering the messageboards around the time HHH was ready to come back from his quad injury, and to me that Rumble was the most predictable of any of them, aside from '98 of course.

 

Watching the shows with my dad is kind of tough, because he hasn't really watched the shows since they started the brand splitting and I have to explain who most of the guys are to him. In one case, it was Shelton Benjamin at WM, and I couldn't really explain it in a way that he'd understand it (i.e. without using smark terminology), so it pretty much just came out as "well...uh...he's the Intercontinental champion." So in that sense I suppose it's been a negative factor.

 

As far as the aforementioned smark terminology, when me and my brother went to the Indy SD (Eddie's last show), I overheard someone using the word "job", and thought "wow, that really sounds lame in normal speak." I usually watch the shows alone or with my dad and brother.

 

Without the internet? I never would have considered the possibility that Eddie or Rey could make believable World champions. I was shocked to learn in 1992 that Bret had become the WWF champion, not because of his size, but because he had been a tag wrestler for so long. It wasn't until then that I thought he was never going to achieve a higher level than guys like Rude or Hennig. Today, it would probably be the same way with someone like Shelton Benjamin.

 

That reminds me of Bret's "who are you to doubt El Dandy?" promo which has come up in discussion recently, where Mean Gene would say "c'mon, that guy's a cruiserweight, there's a 30-pound weight difference!" Without the internet, I'd probably think "yeah, Okerlund's right, what a coward Bret's become" now I kind of look at it as a slight. I did look at Malenko on a different level because he wrestled against the heavyweights a lot and fared pretty well. I like to think I've become a lot more open-minded because of the internet, and wouldn't want to go back.