goodhelmet Posted December 26, 2005 Report Share Posted December 26, 2005 Last night on Meltzer's show Meltz was talking about HHH and Hogan holding people down and comparing the two. HOwever, I do not care about HHH holding people down. I am more interested when Meltzer made the following comment. "The bottom line is there was nobody ... I dont care who says what about anything... there was nobody in that period from 1984 to 1989 who put in the position of Hulk Hogan would have done as good as Hulk Hogan drawing the money. Nobody." Do you agree or disagree? Discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted December 26, 2005 Report Share Posted December 26, 2005 Absolutely agree. No one else was as close to being as popular. Hogan was a huge international draw before he even entered the company, so you can't really argue that it was the WWF push that made him so over either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted December 26, 2005 Report Share Posted December 26, 2005 It's tough to say because it's all speculative. I will say that Hogan had a good look was a great talker and oozed charisma, so it's hard to disagree. His matches, although not technical masterpieces, were built well and unfolded with a lot of drama so that by the end of the match, you were pleading for Hogan to kick out. Then he would, Hulk Up, Legdrop and you were happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted December 26, 2005 Report Share Posted December 26, 2005 I'd have to say that's probably true. Wrestling had never seen before (or it could be argued, since) charisma like Hogan brought to the table. If Vince would have plugged anyone else in that role, it probably would have been *almost* as big but not *as* big as Hogan. Hell, that's why he's been able to hang on for so long after his prime. He knows that there won't be another source of charisma like that in wrestling, and he'd be great in a non-wrestling role if he could ever resist the urge to put himself over the young talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted December 26, 2005 Report Share Posted December 26, 2005 Definately agree. I always get a laugh out of smarks who have 10-12 deep lists of heels that should've beaten Hogan in that time period. I think late 1987 at the earliest was when they could safely take it off of Hogan without killing the company. Let's look at the top heels and faces from the time period: Roddy Piper: Never could've carried a promotion. While he was over as a heel where could you have gone with him after beating Hogan? Paul Orndorff: His peak of popularity on a national stage was solely because of the Hogan feud. You might've been able to do an Orndorff wins the belt and Hogan wins it back a week later. Otherwise Orndorff was hurt and would've lost heat once out of the Hogan program. Andre: Rapidly failing health. More of a sideshow attraction throughout his career anyway. Didn't need a title. Jimmy Snuka: Cokehead. Can't have the belt on a guy that tossed his girlfriend off of a balcony. Junkyard Dog: With the right push maybe. But he was packing on the weight at this point and a giant cokehead. Randy Savage: Having a good run with the I.C. belt during most of Hogan's run. Did well enough on his own with the belt once he got the chance but I don't see why his I.C. run would need to get cut short. Don Muraco: Not around for more than 6 months in a given year. Ted Dibiase: Still new to the federation by the time Hogan actually lost the title. I doubt he was established enough to win the title in 87. Rick Rude: Nostalgia has really colored many people's visions of Rude. He didn't really come into his own until late 88. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cam Chaos Posted December 26, 2005 Report Share Posted December 26, 2005 Jimmy Snuka: Cokehead. Can't have the belt on a guy that tossed his girlfriend off of a balcony. He didn't throw her off a balcony. http://www.cactusjack.co.uk/superfly.html Ted Dibiase: Still new to the federation by the time Hogan actually lost the title. I doubt he was established enough to win the title in 87. Rumours abound he was meant to get a run with the belt at one point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted December 26, 2005 Report Share Posted December 26, 2005 DiBiase was supposed to win the belt at Wrestlemania IV, but politics got in the way. Thinking about it, the one part I'd argue is that by 1988-89 it was obvious that Hulk was starting to lose some of his luster with the fans and they really should have had a heel run with the title for a few months to give people reason to root for Hogan again. I think keeping him invincible for so long only wore his welcome out with the fans faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted December 26, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 26, 2005 Here is the full edition of last night's show for anyone interested... http://www.okwerdloathe.com/xboxpics/WOL%2...012-25-2005.mp3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted December 26, 2005 Report Share Posted December 26, 2005 I was going to check WO.com last night, but I figured he wouldn't have a new show on Christmas. Apparently I chose.......POORLY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted December 26, 2005 Report Share Posted December 26, 2005 Ah, I get his case confused with whatever girl got thrown off a balcony in another case. Dibiase was slated for the title at Wrestlemania IV but that fell through because the HTM refused to drop the I.C. title to Savage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheShawshankRudotion Posted December 26, 2005 Report Share Posted December 26, 2005 It's amazing how much time they had to take calls and how little calls they took. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted December 27, 2005 Report Share Posted December 27, 2005 Ah, I get his case confused with whatever girl got thrown off a balcony in another case. I believe you're thinking of the Jim Brown case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Posted December 27, 2005 Report Share Posted December 27, 2005 I would guess you guys are thinking of Carlos Monzon, the former middleweight champion convicted of murdering his wife in 1988 by throwing her off a balcony. It fits the time frame. Monzon died in 1994. Snuka allegedly killed his girlfriend in an altercation on a PA highway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Famous Mortimer Posted December 27, 2005 Report Share Posted December 27, 2005 It's impossible to say, and pretty weak of Meltzer to say something like that. We can't tell, because no-one was given the chance, and no-one had the huge machine of the WWF behind them. Huge international draw before 1983? Was he? I think someone else could have. Don't know who, but I think that the corporation and the direction it went in was more important than the individual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted December 27, 2005 Report Share Posted December 27, 2005 Hogan was the IWGP Champ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted December 27, 2005 Report Share Posted December 27, 2005 Hogan was a big draw in the AWA and Japan, and had a big role in Rocky III, all before Hulkamania ran wild for Vincent K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHawk Posted December 27, 2005 Report Share Posted December 27, 2005 Hogan was such a huge draw in the AWA that Hogan went to a series of Dusty finishes with Nick Bockwinkel where Hogan would get the pin and seemingly the title, but Bockwinkel would keep the title because of the over-the-top-rope rule. Normally the reversals were announced on local TV after the fact, but one night they did the reversal in the arena and the crowd started to riot. To this day I doubt Verne Gagne knew what he had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Famous Mortimer Posted December 28, 2005 Report Share Posted December 28, 2005 I'd forgotten about Rocky 3, but I don't think being IWGP champ equates as being a huge international draw. Better than not being, I suppose. I just have a problem with the cult of the personality. People are products of the time they live in. Austin got over because the time was right for a character like that to get over. Plonk him down in 1985 and he's a mid-carder. Try debuting Hogan as a 25-year old now and he wouldn't be anything like as big as he was. So I'm more inclined to believe itf it weren't Hogan, it'd have been someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheShawshankRudotion Posted December 28, 2005 Report Share Posted December 28, 2005 But that doesn't explain how Hogan was successful in the mid-late 90's with an entirely different company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest brian Posted December 28, 2005 Report Share Posted December 28, 2005 It kinda does. The turn was perfect for that time. But at the same time, one could argue that it took a character that was created and built in a certain way to do that, that you couldn't have pulled off in the same way. It makes Hogan an anomaly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted December 28, 2005 Report Share Posted December 28, 2005 Hogan is one of the top ten draws in the history of Japanese wrestling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheShawshankRudotion Posted December 28, 2005 Report Share Posted December 28, 2005 It kinda does. The turn was perfect for that time. But at the same time, one could argue that it took a character that was created and built in a certain way to do that, that you couldn't have pulled off in the same way. It makes Hogan an anomaly. Yeah, you're absolutely right. Hogans unprecidented success which hasn't been matched since is unrelated to the man himself. That he managed to be both a great drawing heel AND face had nothing to do with his ability to connect with a crowd and was more based around the fact that he was right place/right time not once, but twice. Come the fuck on! The dude had total control over his character in WCW, which rightfully gets thrown in his face when it comes to the decline of WCW but when it times to give him credit for the successes the dude doesn't get what he deserves. How much do you want to bet Austin won't be able to come back and have a hand in creating another boom period? The Rock? It's damn near impossible for that to happen, but Hogan did it - he managed to stay relevant in two TOTALLY different time periods with two totally different characters in two totally different companies and the significance of that gets extremely downplayed. Bullshit. If Hogan was 25 today he'd be incredibly over wherever he'd go because he did things with and for the audience that guys don't do today. Styles and fads can change but the relevance of the crowd doesn't and Hogan knew that was the most important thing. The dude was a very smart worker who got the most out of everything he did. And in todays wrestling, where guys are too worried about which spot to hit next and are so interchangable, Hogan would be over because he'd be unique and charismatic and that gets over more than everything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted December 28, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2005 Hogan is one of the top ten draws in the history of Japanese wrestling. Where did you find this little nugget of info? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted December 28, 2005 Report Share Posted December 28, 2005 A few years ago, when Meltzer mentioned the names in the WON, Hogan was in the top ten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts