Backlash 2016: Kicking off the 2 PPVs a month era

[Coffey]

 

 

So you guys would say AJ is a better worker than Danielson?

Goodness no. I think Danielson is leagues better.

Really in what way? Like I can see why Bryan may be better but to say there is a gulf seems a bit of an exaggeration to me. In terms of offense, Bryan is more prone to the mat, but AJ can certainly go; AJ's strikes are better in my opinion and he is the better flyer. AJ is a better bumper than AJ. Bryan can be better at the act of selling but also more prone to blowing it off. AJ is the better trash talking heel who works awesome control segments. Daniel Bryan's finish run is electric but often feels show horned into the match. Hands down Bryan is the better character. So his matches implicitly have more emotion but that should not be conflated with him being the better wrestler. As I think AJ is able to get more out of a variety of opponents in a variety of settings. I say it is close but I'm sticking with AJ

 

 

I don't think there being a gulf is an exaggeration. Daniel Bryan finished #5 in the Greatest Wrestler Ever project right here on PWO. AJ Styles was #39 by comparison. So even others right here would agree. I don't think that AJ is a better striker, like you said he was. I disagree with that vehemently. I also don't think AJ is a better bumper, like you said. Part of the reason why Bryan got so over in WWE was because he was so good at garnering sympathy. As you noted, Bryan is a better mat wrestler - I don't think anyone would dispute that. Bryan is also one of the best hot tags I've seen in years. High flying doesn't mean anything to me & never has. Plus to me, AJ Styles often comes off as sloppy, blowing his own signature moves & spots frequently. Especially the backflip Reverse DDT. I wasn't a fan of Styles during his run in ROH, TNA or NJPW & I'm still not real high on him in WWE. When it comes to in-ring, I think Bryan is better. When it comes to character, I think Bryan is better. When it comes to promos, neither are great, admittedly, but Bryan has entertained me more, often with humor, than Styles has.

 

I don't think it's close. I think Bryan beats him in almost every category. That's not hyperbole.

[DMJ]

Just finished the show.

 

AJ Styles is the best worker in the company right now and I'm not sure there is anyone even close to second, especially if you consider "freshness." I mean, Cena can still be great and Cesaro is a beast and Rusev is awesome and I like Zayn and Joe and Owens and MIz, but they all have holes in their game or in their booking or what have you. Styles is just the man, straight up.

 

If I were the WWE,I'd spend the next 6 months figuring out who Styles is going to drop the belt to. It might be Cena. It might be someone else. Till WrestleMania, though, Styles should remain champ and beat a cavelcade of challengers - Ambrose in a rematch, Orton, Kane, maybe a multi-man defense involving Wyatt and some of the aforementioned, and let his run last. Then, come April 2017, you can run Styles/Cena or Styles/Nakamura?

[Jimmy Redman]

 

I don't think anyone would dispute that women's wrestling in WWE overall is leagues better now than it was pre-2005. But when you essentially say that there were no great women's matches at all before then, you're opening yourself up.

In ECW, SMW, NWA, TNA, USWA or any other non-WWE company, I have never seen a "good" women's match, let alone a great one pre-2005.

 

WCW had a few good ones, Madusa/Hokuto probably being the best. WWE pre-2005 didn't have any good women's matches aside from the ones we've already covered, and notice that Joshi wrestlers had to be involved for it to even reach the level of discussion, JBA, Nakano, etc.

 

So that is about 55 years of televised wrestling and less than about 10 matches are viable enough to even be considered. With that said, I am a huge fan of women's wrestling, even the bad stuff, and have sought out everything I can find from the 90-04 era. Pre-90's is hard to come by, but I've sought them out as well. I even once considered writing an article or some type of piece on the history of women's wrestling. I've started and stopped numerous times, but have a lot of files so maybe someday.

 

The problem with you saying "pre-2005" over and over again is that pre-2005 includes 2002-04, which was a pretty strong period for WWE women's wrestling, featuring workers like Trish, Molly, Jazz, Victoria, etc. and containing a whole slew of good matches.

 

Trish vs Lita in the Raw main event was in December 2004, and that's one of the best women's matches in company history, for starters.

 

Trish vs Victoria street fights, Trish vs Jazz, a bunch of rando three ways and four ways...fuck I wish I had taken notes when I watched all this stuff because now I can't remember specifics and I'm going to have to waste my day on this now to find them. But the matches are there. No "good" matches pre 2005 is laughable.

[El-P]

The problem with you saying "pre-2005" over and over again is that pre-2005 includes 2002-04, which was a pretty strong period for WWE women's wrestling, featuring workers like Trish, Molly, Jazz, Victoria, etc. and containing a whole slew of good matches.

 

Trish vs Lita in the Raw main event was in December 2004, and that's one of the best women's matches in company history, for starters.

 

The problem is that none of this stuff was actually really good. Lita was an awful worker. Trish was ok for a WWF woman at the time, but really, never that good. Anyone having watched a bunch of joshi, and by that I mean even zombie promotions from the early 00's, could not seriously consider any of this stuff. The first match that I would call really good in WWE in the 00's was the infamous Trish vs Mickie James at Mania. But hey, Mickie James was not these other girls (well, Molly was good but nothing special either and had no one to work with, really).

[TravJ1979]

 

 

2000 to 2005 you have a slow, but steady progression in the quality of women's matches in WWE and with Shimmer starting, things are starting to look bright and at this point I'd have a hard time defending last nights women's match against the best stuff from this era.

 

 

WWE pre-2005 didn't have any good women's matches aside from the ones we've already covered,

 

Still, with that revisited, I agree with El-P

[NintendoLogic]

I don't know that pre-WWE body of work is necessarily lopsided in Bryan's favor. AJ certainly has more absolute dreck to his name, but his very best work compares favorably to Bryan's. And I would argue that AJ's run in New Japan was better than any run of equivalent length Bryan had in ROH.

[fxnj]

If you're looking for match recs, Violet Viann vs June Byers would be a good place to start to see televised women's wrestling wasn't always a wasteland of good matches in the US.