2017 MOTY Yes/No Thread

[rzombie1988]

NO to Shibata/Riddle, per my thoughts in the MDA. A good, solid match but far from MOTYC.

Agreed.

 

NO to Shibata/Riddle. Little more than an extended Shibata squash and the match was built around no selling

[RyanClingman]

Thank you for doing one of these threads again! They are a tremendous resource.

 

I am very surprised to see such universal support for Tanahashi and Naito. As far as the "self conscious epic" goes that match seemed to tick far more boxes than Okada-Omega. In fact, I thought that Tanahashi/Naito pretty much embodied the big NJPW style, where as Omega-Okada was far more diversified -- at least to my eyes. I have a lot of thoughts coming up on these matches, but for now.

 

YES - Hiromu Takahashi vs. KUSHIDA NJPW 01/04: Absolutely amazing stuff here. I don't mind go-go-go type matches (and this wasn't that), but for any match to do well in my book it must have featured some kind of memorable moment which fits into the broader match structure. This match had that, with the armbar on the floor legitimately taking my breath away -- I may have stopped breathing for a good 4 or 5 seconds. Everything felt crisp, and it was an undoubted star making performance. This is my second favourite match of the year thus far. **** 3/4

 

YES - Kazuchika Okada vs. Kenny Omega NJPW 01/04: I think that the 6-star treatment that this match observed is doing it a dis-service. It was an outstanding match. Would I have liked to have seen more from the back work? Sure. Was there superfluous melo-drama? Yes. Was it the best match ever? No, at least not for me as a viewer -- the term isn't well defined for me anyway. Was the match great? Most certainly. And moreover was it 5-stars? I would say so, yes.

 

YES - Katsuyori Shibata vs. Hirooki Goto NJPW 01/04: When Shibata is on he is one of my favourite wrestlers in the world. When Shibata is off he approaches self-parody. He teetered on the line between the two in this match, as he often does with Goto, but there was a lot to love here. For one, they cut down on head-on-head contact, which can only be a positive. At the same time, however, they substitute the brutal and self-destructive headbutt spots with tamer ones to the chest and neck which worked just as well, if not better. Wonderful stuff here.

 

NO - John Cena vs. AJ Styles WWE 01/29: I know that this match hasn't been nominated yet, and so I don't quite know if I can say "no" on it, but I thought that I would put this here as someone who has honestly tried, and subsequently failed time after time to see the appeal of this match-up. Cena as Donkey Kong is wonderful stuff, but since the Owens feud he has done very little for me, unfortunately. Cena was great for well over a decade, not because he was good at working other people's styles, but because (in part) he was an elite base for most anyone. He has lost that with me, unfortunately. Feel free to discount this 'no' vote!

[KawadaSmile]

NOMINATING:

Kazuchika Okada © vs Minoru Suzuki - NJPW The New Beginning in Sapporo (02/05)

 

This might be my favorite Okada match ever, and I thought it was a much better match than the WK11 main event as well. It does have some faults, like going way too long, but in this occasion it has more to do with both guys milking the spots for maximum effect than flat out filler.

 

Minoru Suzuki just working the shit out of Okada's leg and also flat out punking him made for an actual compelling story of overcoming the odds, almost Cena-esque at points.

 

Okada needs to work on his offense though. When he's up against someone that can be as stiff as MiSu, his strikes look like a soft breeze.

[Noah Mark]

Nominating:

 

Travis Banks vs Zack Sabre Jr-WCPW 1/6/17. Really good. Banks really amazed me in this match. Some goods spots by both. Sabre can just pull out a submission at any point during the match. Just amazing.

 

Marty Scurll vs El Ligero vs Gabriel Kidd-WCPW 1/6/17. For me it was really well worked. Scurll plays a great heel. Kidd pulled out a really good performance. He has that underdog heat from the crowd. This is the best that I've seen Ligero look.

[Noah Mark]

Voting::

 

Imposible vs Relampago. Yes. A fantastic match and right now my favorite IWRG match. Relampago busted out some cool submissions. Didn't care for much of the brawling all over the arena but once they got back in the ring it picked up.

[rzombie1988]

YES to these two from DDT Tokyo Puroresu 1/4/2017

 

Saki Aki vs Miyu Yamashita

Yuu vs Shoko Nakajima

 

Saki Aki vs Miyu Yamashita:

Akai is basically a new Yumi Ohka or Takako. She's this tall lanky egotistical snobby gucci girl. She has a man servant who wipes the floor for her. She's a total arrogant bad ass and plays her character to a "T". She used to model too and yeah the sex appeal helps. Miyu is a young Chigusa. Fiery, a kicker and has a mean streak in her. While this did have some comedy crap in it, some of the strikes were a little off and I rated it only ***3/4, I thought this really good. Both girls are already WWE ready and Akai could easily be the top joshi star right now if someone spots her. You could tell just by watching these girls enter that they have the it factor.

 

Yuu vs Shoko Nakajima

Yuu is a female Brock. She does all these awesome judo throws and really slams people home. Shoko is your Io-Shirai like babyface girl who flies and has some fire to her. Pretty much a perfect matchup for these two as their puzzle pieces fit right in. They start it off slow and work the match and escalate the violence as it goes further on. Yuu is a fricking bulldozer and you'll love it.

[WingedEagle]

YES to these two from DDT Tokyo Puroresu 1/4/2017

 

Saki Aki vs Miyu Yamashita

Yuu vs Shoko Nakajima

 

Saki Aki vs Miyu Yamashita:

 

Akai is basically a new Yumi Ohka or Takako. She's this tall lanky egotistical snobby gucci girl. She has a man servant who wipes the floor for her. She's a total arrogant bad ass and plays her character to a "T". She used to model too and yeah the sex appeal helps. Miyu is a young Chigusa. Fiery, a kicker and has a mean streak in her. While this did have some comedy crap in it, some of the strikes were a little off and I rated it only ***3/4, I thought this really good. Both girls are already WWE ready and Akai could easily be the top joshi star right now if someone spots her. You could tell just by watching these girls enter that they have the it factor.

 

Yuu vs Shoko Nakajima

 

Yuu is a female Brock. She does all these awesome judo throws and really slams people hope. Shoko is your Io-Shirai like babyface girl who flies and has some fire to her. Pretty much a perfect matchup for these two as their puzzle pieces fit right in. They start it off slow and work the match and escalate the violence as it goes further on. Yuu is a fricking bulldozer and you'll love it.

 

Are these available online?

[rzombie1988]

 

YES to these two from DDT Tokyo Puroresu 1/4/2017

 

Saki Aki vs Miyu Yamashita

Yuu vs Shoko Nakajima

 

Saki Aki vs Miyu Yamashita:

 

Akai is basically a new Yumi Ohka or Takako. She's this tall lanky egotistical snobby gucci girl. She has a man servant who wipes the floor for her. She's a total arrogant bad ass and plays her character to a "T". She used to model too and yeah the sex appeal helps. Miyu is a young Chigusa. Fiery, a kicker and has a mean streak in her. While this did have some comedy crap in it, some of the strikes were a little off and I rated it only ***3/4, I thought this really good. Both girls are already WWE ready and Akai could easily be the top joshi star right now if someone spots her. You could tell just by watching these girls enter that they have the it factor.

 

Yuu vs Shoko Nakajima

 

Yuu is a female Brock. She does all these awesome judo throws and really slams people hope. Shoko is your Io-Shirai like babyface girl who flies and has some fire to her. Pretty much a perfect matchup for these two as their puzzle pieces fit right in. They start it off slow and work the match and escalate the violence as it goes further on. Yuu is a fricking bulldozer and you'll love it.

 

Are these available online?

 

XWT or DDT Universe.

[joeg]

YES to Okada vs Suzuki 2/5

 

This match had a lot of bells and whistles but told a pretty good story. My only gripe is Okada's uneven selling of the knee injury. 20 minutes in, he can't stand on it. 35 minutes in he was exhausted but the knee was fine. It was like he got a cortisone shot or something.

[Mad Dog]

Yes to Okada/Suzuki 2/5.

 

Just finished watching it and it might be my favorite New Japan match in awhile. I knew it was 40 minutes going in and it didn't feel like it. The final leglock sequence was great as you wondered how Okada was finally going to get out of the hold. I really enjoyed this and hope there's a rematch down the line.

[Noah Mark]

Nominating:

 

Elimination Chamber Match-John Cena vs AJ Styles vs Dean Ambrose vs Bray Wyatt vs Baron Corbin vs Miz 2/12/17. Just a great match. I thought Baron Corbin came out looking strong. Cena had great moments with AJ. AJ & Wyatt also had great moments.

[bucky]

Okada vs. Suzuki - YES

 

So I really enjoyed the Omega/Okada epic for what it was, a big stupid PWG main event in front of like 30,000 people. This was obviously way better, but it's interesting to watch a guy like Okada, who you could literally replace with anyone (in either of these matches) and the matches would be pretty much the same, if not a lot better. I say that on one hand, but on the other hand, his weak strikes and overall lanky awkwardness makes the dynamic against a guy like Suzuki very fascinating. Suzuki is scorching him with elbows, kicks, knees, slaps, and Okada comes back with a level of striking I've commonly seen in openers in bad local indies. I've watched guys in the third match on a Booker T's Reality of Wrestling show put more into their elbow strikes than Okada does here. But it kind of works. It's not like Suzuki is selling them at all. His wrinkly old face just laughs and sticks his tongue out, talking shit and making Okada look like a soft bitch. Suzuki is incredible here. Very few guys can pull off long, dramatic late-match submission sequences like he does here, but he has one of the top 5 all-time great faces in wrestling, and sells the drama even when Okada's performance is lacking.

 

Not that Okada was all bad here, his selling was great at times, but spotty at others. His timing is still good, but his movements are awkward and again, he needs to learn how to throw a fucking elbow. They've done a good job of protecting the Rainmaker as a death move (I say this having not seen hardly any New Japan in the last couple years) so that when it finally happens, it makes kayfabe sense that Suzuki would stay down. But it is entertaining to look at this as 40 minutes of a freelance non-contract guy making the company ace look like a little girl by comparison. Regardless, I loved this. Suzuki is the fucking best. Best match I've seen this year so far.

[Mad Dog]

I also liked the touch of Suzuki shit talking Tanahashi who was doing commentary in the early goings. I also really like the camera angle they took under the rope when Okada was desperately stretching for it towards the end of the leglock spot.

 

I also liked that 2 days later at a house show that Suzuki kept attacking the leg and used the same leglock to eliminate Okada from the match.

[stomperspc]

Nominating:

 

Golden Magic vs. Pirata Morgan Jr. , mask vs. hair (IWRG - 02/12/2017)

 

Not sure if it is a MOTYC exactly, but a really fine mid-level apuesta match that struck a nice balance between violence and "normal match offense". Pirata Jr. was an offensive machine. I loved all the variation elbow drops and back elbows. The crowd brawling to start the match and again in the third fall was short and sweet. Both times they built to one big spot, but each of those spots was set up quickly and naturally so it was the tedious kind of lucha extrema. Pirata Morgan was excellent s his son's second, interfering at all the right times, being in the right spots, and taking a bump or two when called for. I have been disappointed with some recently hyped lucha indie matches (including last year's Delta/Galactar mask match from Monterrey), I was getting Pirtata Jr. mixed up in my head with Hijo del Pirata Morgan, and while I really, really like Golden Magic as a flier I wasn't sure how well he would adjust his offense in a blooding brawl, but the match met or exceeded my expectations.

 

Voting NO:

 

Imposible vs Relampago (IWRG 1/22)

 

As a stand alone match, I thought this was only okay (I've felt similar about all of their matches). I thought it did a nice job building to a possible mask match and some of the bigger spots were good but otherwise I thought it wasn't anything all that special. The brawling became a little repetitive at point and the third fall didn't have the quality of near falls/drama needed to put it over the top.

 

Rey Hechicero vs. Caifan (Promociones El Cholo de Tijuana 1/6)

 

Technically this was fine, but the crowd was so disinterested in what they were seeing. Heat is not everything, but they got so little reactions for most everything they did that it hurt the match. I've also though both guys have had far better mat based matches (with different opponents) the past couple of years.

 

Katsuyori Shibata vs Matt Riddle (RevPro 1/21)

 

If the entire match was worked similar to the opening minutes, it would have been great. The opening minutes had the interesting, unique mat work and hold/counter hold stuff I want from a match between two guys with Shibata and Riddle's backgrounds. Unfortunately, the match quickly shed that uniqueness and was wrestled like every other from about three minutes in up through the end. The no-selling spots are so played. Even if someone doesn't have an issue with those spots conceptually, I am not sure how people can defend the same no-selling suplex spot being shoe horned into every single major Shibata singles match. Also another match where I failed to get the hype on Riddle. I think he has potential but he wrestles just like everyone else. Not sure - besides experience level - what makes him different from any number of indie guys.

 

Voting YES:

 

Kazuchika Okada vs Minoru Suzuki (NJPW - 2/5)

 

They could have accomplished the same in a 30 minute match, but otherwise I liked this a bunch. The pacing and structure (Suzuki continually going back to leg locks) was a breath of fresh air for current New Japan. Okada's selling was good, although I didn't find it was otherworldly as Meltzer did).

 

John Cena vs AJ Styles vs Dean Ambrose vs Bray Wyatt vs Baron Corbin vs The Miz (Elimination Chamber 2/12)

 

Exactly what I want from a match like this - constant action, well done eliminations, and a few big bumps. Story wise, I thought they nailed this. Every wrestler in the match had some sort of role whether it was getting themselves over and putting someone else over (sometimes both). Ambrose was the only wrestler in the match who didn't stand out in some way, but at least they used the match to set up his feud with Corbin. Loved the way they handled Wyatt eliminating Styles and Cena. When WWE tries to give a quick push to a career mid carder it usually feels forced, but his victory here felt natural.

[WingedEagle]

Perhaps a silly question, but what are we Yes/No'ing? MOTY? Top 10 MOTY? Top 50?

[GOTNW]

Perhaps a silly question, but what are we Yes/No'ing? MOTY? Top 10 MOTY? Top 50?

Around top 50

[joeg]

YES to the Elimination Chamber match. Did a great job of setting up matches and feuds going forward to wrestlemania, had some crazy spots and crazy bumps, and told a great story.

 

Nominating

 

Nakamura vs Roode NXT Takeover San Antonio 1/28- That was probably the best selling of a knee injury I've seen in recent memory. I don't know if I need to go into more detail than that.

 

John Cena vs AJ Styles Royal Rumble 1/29- I understand this isn't for everybody, but I enjoyed it. I thought it was a good end to AJ's great title run and a great blow off to the Cena vs AJ feud.

[KawadaSmile]

Yes for both Nakamura/Roode and Cena/Styles III.

 

The former, on paper, had everything to be a mess of a match, and while the first half wasn't very eventful, from the moment Nakamura injured his knee onward, it turned into something brilliant. I'd rank this even above the Dallas match against Zayn, and Roode contributed just as much to make this match work way more than it should.

 

The latter, albeit not as good as their Summerslam match, still delivered with intensity and hot nearfalls. Cena's lariat is something beautiful, like Bald Bull charging full throttle for that massive hit. The AA/roll through-AA combo was incredible, too, and it played off to their previous match.

[Noah Mark]

Nominating: Zack Sabre Jr vs Marty Scurll-Rev Pro 1/21/17. This was a classic! Just great stuff between the two, and great chemistry. ZSJ can pull out a submission and no time and then transition right into another one. Just beautiful. I'm really surprised this didn't a nomination when Shibata/Riddle did.

 

Voting: Kazuchika Okada vs Kenny Omega-NJPW 14/17 YES!. I actually rewatched it a second time and loved it. The best performance from Omega and possibley Okada as well.

 

Voting: Shinsuke Nakamura vs Bobby Roode-YES I really like it. Nak landed some beautiful boma ye's and Roode hung in there with him. I personally liked the finish. It proctected Nak.

[joeg]

YES to

Golden Magic vs Pirata Morgan Jr IWRG 2/12/17 mask vs hair.

Really enjoyed this. I thought Pirata Morgan got a lot of heat on the outside with his shenanigans. There was a lot of violence, and plenty of blood. I thought it was a very good apuesta, nothing earth shattering, but very good.

 

 

NOMINATING

Shibata vs Ospreay NJPW 2/11

This might have been my favorite Will Ospreay match. I enjoyed the series with Kushida, but most of the time his matches are just too much for me. This did a good job of telling a story based on limb work and didn't get into the excess of a usual Shibata match or the usual Ospreay match. I'm guessing that it being in the middle of the card had something to do that.

 

Takahashi vs Dragon Lee 2/11

Wow, um this isn't for everybody, they go over board in every way, but I loved it. Big bumps (like up there with Omega's WK bump), an incredible level of hate (which is what makes the match for me), incredibly athletic spots, great heel work. It is what you expect from these two.

 

Elgin vs Naito 2/11

Very good match. It has a lot of great heel work by Naito. Elgin does a very good job selling. They tell a very good story. They went long leaving me satisfied with the finish, yet left it open for a rematch some down the line.

[bradhindsight]

Hey dudes, if you nominate anything that doesn't have a dedicated thread in the match archive, please feel free to create one. Appreciate it!

[Noah Mark]

Voting:

Kazuchika Okada vs Minoru Suzuki-NJPW 2/5/17 YES! Match was great. Some nice transitions with Suzuki working the leg. Okada had a good comeback. I thought this was better than the Okada/Omega match.

 

Golden Magic vs Pirata Morgan Jr-YES. Really good. A strong IWRG match of the year candidate. Golden Magic had some cool spots.

[stro]

Yes for both Nakamura/Roode and Cena/Styles III.

 

The former, on paper, had everything to be a mess of a match, and while the first half wasn't very eventful, from the moment Nakamura injured his knee onward, it turned into something brilliant. I'd rank this even above the Dallas match against Zayn, and Roode contributed just as much to make this match work way more than it should.

 

The latter, albeit not as good as their Summerslam match, still delivered with intensity and hot nearfalls. Cena's lariat is something beautiful, like Bald Bull charging full throttle for that massive hit. The AA/roll through-AA combo was incredible, too, and it played off to their previous match.

I thought Nak/Roode was legit shitty. They had ZERO chemistry, and Nak's selling of the knee was so overdone. In literally any other match, he'd go from that directly into throwing 6 knees in a row like nothing happened. And all the sudden he's doing the same type of selling he normally would but with medical staff out there and I'm supposed to buy into it as being more serious than his normal screaming sell that he stops selling 3 minutes later in all of his big matches? The build up between them was legit Nak makes wacky faces at Roode for a few shows, and all of the sudden they were running HARD with "the biggest money match in NXT history" shit, which was utterly ridiculous.

 

On top of that, Roode has basically been a comedy mid carder since coming into NXT, so his sudden ascension into the title scene made little sense to begin with.

[joeg]

NOMINATING

RUSH vs LA Park 3/11 Baracal Entertainment

Wow. This is my MOTY to date. Just holy shit. Just wow.

[Noah Mark]

Voting:

Hiromu Takahashi vs Dragon Lee-2/11/17 YES. I thought this was the best match of their series the last few years and better than the Takahashi/Kushido match. Takahashi has a cool finisher.