yesdanielbryan Posted April 21, 2018 Report Share Posted April 21, 2018 Good morning. Except Cena, Lesnar and the part timers, who do you think was the biggest star at his peak, since 2009? In my opinion the biggest name are Bryan and Jeff Hardy. Maybe, also Punk and Orton should be into the discussion. However, I don't think that they were as big as them at their peaks, althought today, they are probably more known among casual fans because of the longevity (especially Orton) What is your choise between Jeff Hardy and Daniel Bryan? And why? Do you think that google trends dates are important or not to choose who is a bigger star among two wrestlers? For example, Hardy was more searched in 2009 than Bryan in 2014 worldwide, however the big gap is because of Mexico, were WWE were very popular in 2009; while in USA, Canada, UK (the main WWE markets) they are pretty close, Bryan was slightly more searched at his peak in USA, and Hardy in Canada. Thank you very much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted April 21, 2018 Report Share Posted April 21, 2018 This is kind of interesting if only because of how much bigger wrestling was in, let's say, 2000-2001 than in 2014. Does one of the most over, relatively, people in the history of the company in 2014, get trumped by an extremely over midcarder in 2001. Jeff was more of a commodity in 2002 than 2001 but I think by then, it's too late and wrestling was cooling off. If Jeff had peaked as a mid-carder in 99, I think he'd have a real argument against 2014 anyone, because wrestling matters so much less in 2014. WWE's just gotten better at squeezing more out of less, but it was much more of a national phenomenon and general part of the culture when Jeff was coming up. Peak main eventer vs peak main eventer (the main question here) isn't an argument. Bryan destroys Jeff. Jeff's a great babyface with a real connection to the crowd. Bryan is a once in a generation, transcendent figure. It's just he was a transcendent figure when wrestling doesn't really matter. Bryan vs a secondary major babyface of 1999 would be more interesting, I think. Bryan vs Foley maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted April 21, 2018 Report Share Posted April 21, 2018 Daniel Bryan feels like the bigger star, but Jeff Hardy was the bigger star. I don't even blame him for this, but examples of Bryan moving business, while there, are limited. Jeff Hardy at his peak was a bigger star than John Cena at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yesdanielbryan Posted April 21, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2018 Daniel Bryan feels like the bigger star, but Jeff Hardy was the bigger star. I don't even blame him for this, but examples of Bryan moving business, while there, are limited. Jeff Hardy at his peak was a bigger star than John Cena at the same time. What do you think are the biggest exemples of Hardy's drawing power? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted April 21, 2018 Report Share Posted April 21, 2018 Jeff Hardy. He was part of a huge act in that 2000-2002 time frame. He also came back and was absolutely a massive star in 2007 and 2008. His loss at the Royal Rumble was a huge blunder on their part as he needed to win the title there. Here is the difference. The ultimate test here is. If I started asking people who Daniel Bryan was and who Jeff Hardy was, I would get a lot more replies for Jeff Hardy. It is kind of funny that both were derailed for awhile by one of the hundreds of failed Orton pushes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted April 21, 2018 Report Share Posted April 21, 2018 Daniel Bryan feels like the bigger star, but Jeff Hardy was the bigger star. I don't even blame him for this, but examples of Bryan moving business, while there, are limited. Jeff Hardy at his peak was a bigger star than John Cena at the same time. What do you think are the biggest exemples of Hardy's drawing power? He was the headliner at Royal Rumble 2008 and it did fairly well buyrate wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yesdanielbryan Posted April 21, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2018 I'm searching other ppv buyrates with Hardy in the main event: No Mercy 2008: 261 buys (157 domestic + 104 international). He was in the co-main event against HHH; the other main event was Jericho vs HBK. The event was down from No Mercy 2007, both international and domestic buys. Cyber Sunday 2008: 153 buys (92 domestic + 61 international). He was in the co-main event against HHH; the other main event was Jericho vs Batista. The event was down from Cyber Sunday 2007, both domestic and international buys. Survivor Series 2008: 319 buys (191 domestic + 128 international). He was announced in the main event in a triple threat against HHH and Kozlov if I'm not wrong, but Edge took his place. The event was down from Survivor Series 2007. Armageddon 2008: 193 buys (116 domestic +77 international). He main event in a triple threat against HHH and Edge. The event was down from last year, both domestically and internationally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted April 21, 2018 Report Share Posted April 21, 2018 HHH was death as a main eventer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yesdanielbryan Posted April 21, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2018 It really appears that Hardy was burnt by Orton. I don't undestand why Orton was so much pushed during the year. He never drew very good buyrates, he was the worst ratings quarter draw in 2013, he never was a big merchandise seller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted April 21, 2018 Report Share Posted April 21, 2018 I think we've all asked that question. If you go back to that Royal Rumble match, the crowd absolutely died when he won that match. They had about a 3 month window after he won the title off of Benoit and they blew it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted April 21, 2018 Report Share Posted April 21, 2018 Im not convinced you can compare ratings or buyrates well between even 09 and 13. There was a tv and streaming revolution between those years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yesdanielbryan Posted April 21, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2018 It's really inexplicable why Orton always receives strong push. Even in 2013, was really Bryan who didn't draw, or in particular Orton was the main reason of the poor buyrates of Night of Champions and Battleground? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yesdanielbryan Posted April 21, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2018 Guys, as a star and draw, at his peak, where would you put him in comparison to other wrestlers, like Kane, Big Show, Orton, Punk, Eddie Guerrero, Benoit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herodes Posted April 21, 2018 Report Share Posted April 21, 2018 And theres the Benoit mention again... Yesdanielbryan what is the answer you want to hear, that Jeff Hardy wasnt as big a draw as Daniel Bryan? Well he was way bigger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yesdanielbryan Posted April 21, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2018 And theres the Benoit mention again... Yesdanielbryan what is the answer you want to hear, that Jeff Hardy wasnt as big a draw as Daniel Bryan? Well he was way bigger We stated that Hardy was bigger. Now I asked where we could put him in comparison to those wrestlers at their peak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted April 21, 2018 Report Share Posted April 21, 2018 I don't entirely think traditional metrics for draw really matter all that much in the post-attitude era. Turning around trends probably matters to a degree. Merch sales matter to a degree. I'm not sure what matters though. Youtube hits? Regardless Post 2002 Bigger Draw DNE Bigger Star. I didn't entirely find Dylan's argument for Cena as GWWE #1 compelling, for instance, in that he was the main guy for so long and business is doing well now on relative means, in part because there was no boom period under Cena. They skipped the Boom. Maybe that was because Benoit. Maybe that was because WWE not pushing stars in ways they did in the past. Maybe it was because MMA took the boom instead, but while there was stabilization under Cena, there was no boom like there was with Hogan and Austin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadaveri Posted April 21, 2018 Report Share Posted April 21, 2018 On the 2008 PPV numbers being down, you have to factor in that the United States was in a major recession from December 2007 to June 2009. That's gonna hurt business more than anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herodes Posted April 21, 2018 Report Share Posted April 21, 2018 And theres the Benoit mention again... Yesdanielbryan what is the answer you want to hear, that Jeff Hardy wasnt as big a draw as Daniel Bryan? Well he was way bigger We stated that Hardy was bigger. Now I asked where we could put him in comparison to those wrestlers at their peak. He was way way bigger than Benoit for sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yesdanielbryan Posted April 21, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2018 And theres the Benoit mention again... Yesdanielbryan what is the answer you want to hear, that Jeff Hardy wasnt as big a draw as Daniel Bryan? Well he was way bigger We stated that Hardy was bigger. Now I asked where we could put him in comparison to those wrestlers at their peak. He was way way bigger than Benoit for sure What is your opinion in comparison to Eddy, Big Show, Kane, Edge, Jericho, Punk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herodes Posted April 21, 2018 Report Share Posted April 21, 2018 I have absolutely no opinion on any of them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laz Posted April 21, 2018 Report Share Posted April 21, 2018 Im not convinced you can compare ratings or buyrates well between even 09 and 13. There was a tv and streaming revolution between those years.You can't compare them 1:1, but they still show a trend. I choose Hardy, by the way, and only because the name is more well known. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss Rock Posted April 21, 2018 Report Share Posted April 21, 2018 This is super tough. Hardy's top card run 2008-2009 was huge and he was really the only guy who rivaled if not trumped Cena in terms of merch sales. To my knowledge, Bryan wasn't a top merch mover but he was consistently drawing killer TV numbers in 2014 before his injury and his brief return in 2015 saw him draw good numbers when main eventing house shows. You also can't count out the mainstream crossover the Yes! chants had. I might lean Hardy because of his merch sales and the fact that Bryan was out right at the cusp of his popularity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alucard Posted April 22, 2018 Report Share Posted April 22, 2018 Man, Hardy in 2009 felt like THE absolute hottest star in wrestling. I loved it. His WWE title win at Armageddon 08 is one of my all time favorite moments and his championship celebration kicking off the following SD felt like a really awesome big moment. Was sad to see him go when he did, I wished it lasted longer. When he started 2010 in TNA, I thought he'd be a bigger deal for them. His overall 2006-2009 run was an excellent period of ring work for him where he just killed it against a variety of opponents all the time. I know he's 40 now and I doubt he'll ever reach those heights again but I'd love to see him have a similar run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamthedoctor Posted April 22, 2018 Report Share Posted April 22, 2018 Id say Jeff Hardy just for the fact he pretty much won every title and bagged both World Titles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMJ Posted April 22, 2018 Report Share Posted April 22, 2018 You also can't count out the mainstream crossover the Yes! chants had. I feel like this has been lost in the conversation. While drawing houses and TV ratings are great metrics related to business, I don't think its a total slam dunk that more people knew/recognized Jeff Hardy in 2008 than Daniel Bryan in 2014. Hardy was over, sold a ton of merch (though there's also been discussion here and elsewhere regarding why Bryan's merch didn't fly off the shelves), and obviously, the Hardys as a team being a big deal from 99' through 01' gives him the edge of being more known by folks who stopped watching after the Attitude Era...but Daniel Bryan's Yes Chant crossed over into other sports during a time when pro-wrestling actually began to get respectable and respectful coverage by mainstream sports sites/companies. The ubiquitousness of both meme and nerd culture in 2014 compared to even 08' also leans things towards Daniel Bryan as he, at the peak of his popularity, was hip in a way that Hardy (and even Cena) never were. Sorry, JNCO pants, bright colored belts, and a tank top was never a cool look anywhere at any time in history. Throw in the "What's Real?/What's An Angle?" story bringing more buzz to the company than Hardy, for all his popularity, never did in any of his angles and I think the scales are much more even than some are suggesting. I mean, how many USA Today articles was Hardy the subject of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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