MLW Fusion, anyone watching it?

[Migs]

No spoilers, but I found the show in Philly kind of underwhelming. It might cut up okay into TV episodes, but the Battle Riot was a real mess with not a lot of flow, and a lot of the undercard was good but lacked a bit in heat. Part of this is that there was stuff that will clearly be there in pre-tapes on TV that we weren't privy to - for example, Holliday was selling an injury that will almost certainly be explained in a segment. Show ran pretty long, too, ending up close to 5 hours from bell time to finish.

In part I was there to go to the ECW Arena for the first time, and I have to say, they have done such an amazing job of renovating that place, which is good and bad - good because it's a really nice place to see a show, bad because it's a little hard to connect it in your mind to the place it was when ECW was running it.

[TonyPulis'Cap]

Having just watched the Battle Riot, I can definitely see why anyone would see it as a bit of a mess at times, but I think by sheer force of the amount of 'stuff' going on, and the hard work of the guys involved I found it enjoyable, and ultimately it got to the end point they had been building to with the story line going in.

It suffered from the through line of having no eliminations early. This differentiated it from recent Royal Rumbles, when people seem to come in for 2 mins, run through their moves and then get eliminated, but ultimately, there was just too many guys in there at times. There also wasn't a lot of heat early on, but as the match progressed the crowd got into it, and it felt (you never can tell how much has been 'sweetened' in non live shows) like they were really into the winner, so again job done.

I feel like I'm often the big MLW defender here, and while I can often see, and acknowledge the criticisms others have, for whatever reason, it just seems to grab me. Some of the new names they introduced should help give what was previously a very small roster a shot in the arm with some potentially interesting programs coming out of the match, although given Migs feedback above from being there, maybe I'll try not to get too carried away!

The most interesting point to me from the match, was how in the end it centered around a story line rather than just coming down to 'cool wrestler A vs cool wrestler B' to get a "this is awesome chant". Now whether that story line is a compelling one to you, that of course is open to debate, but to me, I appreciate that they had set up a story for the match going in and paid it off rather than worrying about a 'swerve' or surprise ending.     

   

[SirEdger]

I would assume that Hammerstone won Battle Riot?

[Coffey]

15 minutes ago, SirEdger said:

I would assume that Hammerstone won Battle Riot?

He did & physically, he looks bigger than ever. Or as Meng's Mullet so eloquently put it on Twitter:

 

 

[Migs]

2 hours ago, TonyPulis'Cap said:

Having just watched the Battle Riot, I can definitely see why anyone would see it as a bit of a mess at times, but I think by sheer force of the amount of 'stuff' going on, and the hard work of the guys involved I found it enjoyable, and ultimately it got to the end point they had been building to with the story line going in.

It suffered from the through line of having no eliminations early. This differentiated it from recent Royal Rumbles, when people seem to come in for 2 mins, run through their moves and then get eliminated, but ultimately, there was just too many guys in there at times. There also wasn't a lot of heat early on, but as the match progressed the crowd got into it, and it felt (you never can tell how much has been 'sweetened' in non live shows) like they were really into the winner, so again job done.

I feel like I'm often the big MLW defender here, and while I can often see, and acknowledge the criticisms others have, for whatever reason, it just seems to grab me. Some of the new names they introduced should help give what was previously a very small roster a shot in the arm with some potentially interesting programs coming out of the match, although given Migs feedback above from being there, maybe I'll try not to get too carried away!

The most interesting point to me from the match, was how in the end it centered around a story line rather than just coming down to 'cool wrestler A vs cool wrestler B' to get a "this is awesome chant". Now whether that story line is a compelling one to you, that of course is open to debate, but to me, I appreciate that they had set up a story for the match going in and paid it off rather than worrying about a 'swerve' or surprise ending.     

   

Agreed that I'm glad they just went with putting over the guy they wanted to put over, triumphing over the flunkies of the guy he's set up to face. Sometimes it doesn't need to be too complicated, especially since Hammerstone was the obvious winner. I haven't seen the TV version yet, and MLW obviously sweetens, but Hammerstone was definitely over as the winner.

I'm curious to see how some of this stuff plays on TV - Battle Riot was the main event of the show, so maybe the set ups will improve the undercard in retrospect. 

[Laz]

War Chamber was alright, felt like a lower rent version of the early War Games matches in that it was a bunch of meandering brawling with a few highspots and an underwhelming finish. Hammerstone is great as THE GUY, but I wish he would either lose a little bit of mass so he could move better or adapt his style to match the stiff powerhouse. Ikuro Kwon has a pot of potential, Mads Krugger is all look. Post-match finds Fatu being kicked out of Contra Unit, which can go either way.

I'm about halfway through the Thanksgiving episode, and TJP is a respectable little douche heel. Calvin Tankman has a lot of promise but needs seasoning. 

Fun WARHORSE promo that makes me finally "get" him (bonus points for wearing a Sodom shirt). KC Navarro deserves more time to talk in segments because he was funny and natural, his line "I ACTUALLY LIKE YOU SO I DON'T KNOW WHY WE'RE SCREAMING AT EACH OTHER" had me laugh.

GNARLS GARVIN is bringing that angry hoss bruiser energy that I love. Wild, snug, makes his shit look good.

Looking forward to the ladder match. I was indifferent to Myron Reed but thought he showed promise a year ago, and the few bits I've seen since has shown me a talent that is putting the pieces together on how to stand out from the rest of the modern flippy-doo pack. Ditto Jordan Oliver.

[El-P]

I'll probably check out their Mexico tapings, but really only because of the perspective of more Cesar Durante & Karly Perez doing a low-rent LU act, which, I can't lie, is kinda cool (I mean, it's cool to see them again if anything). There's really something about MLW's production that doesn't work for me, and it's not for the lack of trying. 

[Laz]

Oddly, I think the production and formatting are the strong points of MLW. The camera guys follow the action (there's a spot during TJP/Tankman where the camera follows a suplex up and down that felt like classic ECW), the pacing is brisk, and the segments between matches fit the "this is an outlaw sport" feeling they've been going for. 

Main event was a very, very fun ladder match. Myron Reed keeps getting better and better, Zenshi takes some fun bumps (including a VERY fun one involving his hand that I want to see done a little more in ladder matches), Shelley looks like he hasn't a single step, and Alex Kane delivers on some solid power spots. A deflating finish kinda ruins it, though, as it just...happens.

That's MLW's biggest detriment, IMO. I can overlook the green-as-shit talent and the mediocre promos, but some great finishes would elevate the shows in ways that I don't think Court or MSL realize. Building heat is one thing, but leaving a lasting positive impression is more important.

I'm hoping that the announcement that they'll take on more talents looking for work in a post-ROH scene will bump up the match quality a bit. And that they use Gnarls Garvin the best they can before he inevitably moves on to Impact.

[Laz]

Fusion ALPHA #1, C&P'd from elsewhere (my post).

PRO:

-KC Navarro vs. WARHORSE (for Navarro's work and WARHORSE's new gear)

-an incredibly entertaining 5150 promo

-Production design on the Emilio Sparks segments (to make it look like a live Facebook/Instagram feed)

-Solid as hell Alex Kane press conference after winning the National Openweight belt

-Davey Richards vs. TJP (***3/4)

 

CON:

-Top Dogs vs. Sea Stars

-KC Navarro's gear

-WARHORSE falling into modern indie traps when he should embrace that Warrior-ish gimmick and try to be a monster (which would be even funnier since he's not that big a dude)

-Trying to hype up nZo...fucking whyyyyy

 

Damn, damn good show. Better than last week's, even, and last week was really solid. The ME was bordering into that "must see" territory until Davey forgot about selling his knee and nailed a pair of double stomps, and the finish didn't play into TJP's history of cheating to win so far in the Opera Cup, but it's still better than almost anything Davey did between winning the ROH World title and signing to Impact. He's reined in his worst habits but hasn't "clicked" like he was about to during his incredible 2008-2010 run.

 

Next week looks very, very fun. Los Parks/5150 in a Philly Street Fight, Hammerstone/mystery opponent chosen by Cesar Duran (FKA Dario Cueto), and...nZo/Matt Cross, which will be interesting on some level.

Also, I'd like to add that I don't think there's anybody on the modern US indy scene that knows how to build a believable first half of an epic like Davey Richards can. That's always been his strong point. The chain wrestling and counter sequences during Davey/TJP felt like earned struggles and played well into the "rule of 3" trope, with some minor deviations into LOGICAL "your turn/my turn" stuff that was played more as "THIS is how it's done." That work was also something that factored into TJP's heat segment after the halfway point, with him getting some receipts and smartly working on keeping Davey from being able to throw those kicks.

I only wish the finishing stretch wasn't "Davey Richards wins variation 12.5-B," because the match had some major highlights that seemed to hint at new work from both guys.

As it is, I think TJP, whatever one's opinions on him beyond the ring, is a criminally underrated talent. I also think Davey needs some veterans who've been around longer than him to work with, or at least some younger workers who won't take his lead and force him to step out of his comfort zone.

...and for fuck's sake, Davey, cut the "honorable fighter pep talk" post-match promo shit. You were best as a take-no-gruff killer and not some C-tier motivational speaker. I know that you're ecstatic to be back into the ring, and you really haven't lost a step, but being a goody-two-shoes isn't a good look. If the post-match promo was kept simple - "Philly, you've always been there for me, and I'm glad that I'm back, THE HUNT NEVER DIES" - then it would've been effective. As it is, though, it comes off as bland and patronizing.

[Migs]

I had dropped MLW from my rotation after the big title for title match, but MLW always plays better in a binge, so I've got it on while I'm working this week. Already like the way they are shooting the Duran segments, very LU. 

One other thing I'll note - he's not the best, but Rich Bocchini is very solid as an announcer, far stronger than Matt Striker (who is killing my ability to get into Impact at the moment).

[Laz]

Bocchini is very, very solid. He does a good job calling the action and leading the stories.

MLW, as a whole, always seems to take one step forward and two steps back. There's usually some damn fine booking decisions, but then the execution detracts from it.

Take the Los Parks/5150 Street Fight as an example: the right team went over (5150, hottest act in the company), there were some real fun spots that called back to earlier matches, and 5150 looked strong by winning clean...but the match was just your average middling plunder brawl. 

Even more, I love the idea of Tankman going out of his way to assault Alex Kane so much that he was arrested for it, followed up with a phone interview from jail, but then I know we'll get a Tankman/Alex Kane match that will just expose both of their shortcomings as in-ring workers.

The booking is willing, but the roster (for the most part) is not.

[El-P]

13 hours ago, Laz said:

MLW, as a whole, always seems to take one step forward and two steps back. There's usually some damn fine booking decisions, but then the execution detracts from it.

Probably sums up MLW as well as anything, although honestly I was never a fan of the whole Contra stuff. They have interesting aesthetics ideas, but I always thought the show had a terrible sense of pacing and at the end a 45 minute show would drag like crazy with seemingly a thousand short bits saying nothing, teasing shit that would not happen for months (while often the guy teased already gone when the stuff would air) or going nowhere. And underwhelming matches in between.

13 hours ago, Laz said:

The booking is willing, but the roster (for the most part) is not.

They have had some interesting guys, but also tons of dead weights once NXT & AEW kinda raided the indies for good. And yep, for some reason MLW is a promotion where, apart from that PPV in late 2019, the roster always underdelivers. For instance I would need to see Jacob Fatu outside of that context, because although I can kinda see why people praise him, I always found his matches pretty underwhelming for a guy with such a rep.

The LUesque stuff kinda looks cheap honestly, it reeks of trying to re-do LU without the production budget and know-how. I will watch the Mexico episodes (I guess the Azteca Underground series is basically only the stuff taped over there with The Crash ? Not sure, I find everything to be super confusing with MLW) and keep on eye on whatever FTA Cueto & Catrina are doing, but MLW has not done it for me basically since that 2019 PPV. And it's not for the lack of trying, although at this point there's too much good stuff I actually wanna follow.

[Laz]

I enjoyed Contra, overall, but they never truly felt like the "invading army" they were presented to be, regardless of their ~2 year dominance. Samael was a fine promo guy, doing a take on the Iron Man 3 version of the Mandarin with a hint of Kevin Sullivan added in, but the only viable worker they had was Fatu...who felt more like an afterthought unless he was actively defending the title.

Their roster woes are excusable, given what happened to the talent pool between AEW's launch and WWE signing any and all, but I think most of their issues in regards to stories just sorta ending because of talent being signed away could have been prevented (and could STILL be avoided) by running more than one show a month. 

I get that Court wants to keep the budget as low as possible, having learned his lesson the hard way way back when, but the landscape now requires content flow, and it's hard to invest in a company when the only talent worth paying attention to keep disappearing.

[El-P]

On 12/31/2021 at 12:37 AM, Laz said:

I get that Court wants to keep the budget as low as possible, having learned his lesson the hard way way back when, but the landscape now requires content flow, and it's hard to invest in a company when the only talent worth paying attention to keep disappearing.

Agreed. The way they operate just doesn't work for me. For instance, the infamous Mexico episodes of MLW which I guess will (or won't, who knows) end up being the Azteca Underground stuff have been taped on December the 3rd ! And none of it has surfaced yet. It's ridiculous. There can't be any serious follow-ups nor hype about anything when the content is more than a month old already.

Meanwhile, IMPACT does tapings over two days but those are immediately showcased during the whole following month, so of course you can get spoilers but it's actual spoilers of what's gonna happen tomorrow and the following week, not something that has happened a month ago and hasn't been showed while even older stuff pops up on Youtube every other week in the meantime.

[Migs]

I watched a few more episodes... got through Thanksgiving. 

As usual, liked the build for War Games but the match was terrible. Jeff Cobb comes out as Matanza and then was just kinda Jeff Cobb. Match had no flow and no real sense of escalated violence. The Hammerstone/Holliday dynamic is fun, though.

Are they setting up Reed and Tankman as a new Injustice team? If so, I think that works pretty well - Tankman is a fun but very indy worker, and him and Reed together might work better as a team.

I feel like Court is just ruthlessly avoiding overhead in generating content. It'll always kinda keep the promotion at a certain level, but it also feels like they can withstand a lot and keep going. It feels like he's just waiting out someone giving him real money for the promotion, and if it never comes, he's set himself up to be ok. Meanwhile, ROH is basically now chasing the MLW model, and New Japan USA is kinda doing the same thing with a few NJ top guys thrown in.

[Flyin' Brian]

MLW Azteca premiers tonight at 8 on MLW’s YouTube channel. I’m hoping they can capture the same vibe as Lucha Underground. 

[El-P]

On 1/6/2022 at 10:40 PM, Flyin' Brian said:

I’m hoping they can capture the same vibe as Lucha Underground. 

Answer : no. A bunch of haphazard taping from Mexico dating back from last December with half-assed vignettes with crappy pretend LU production. The fact they called it "Azteca Underground mini-series" when really it's a bunch of two months old tapings at Crash shows speaks volume of how cheap and carny this company is. What a waste of Cesar Duran and Karlee Perez's characters (not to mention Alicia Atout, who was supposed to work for AEW when they debuted). I did not know MSL was the booker, but I guess this explains that. And they have enough money to pay for those big-ass lawyers to sue WWE ? Something doesn't register here.

[Flyin' Brian]

I watched the first show and wasn’t impressed either. All I really know about them is it’s Court Bauer’s company and he used to appear on Steve Austin’s podcast a lot when I would listen to it. Seemed ok but who knows. 

[Reel]

The Aramis/Vikingo match from this week's Azteca show is good. Not 'go out of your way to watch it' good, but if you like those guys, or are interested in checking them out it's worth your time. 

[The Thread Killer]

I haven’t watched MLW in years, but I just read the unfortunate news that Richard Holliday has Hodgkin’s Lymphoma and is in the middle of chemotherapy. That’s very sad news. Back when I used to watch MLW, he, MJF and Hammerstone were the highlights for sure. Even if he manages to beat this, being able to work again after that kind of debilitating illness is a long, tough road back…if it is even possible.

[El-P]

13 hours ago, The Thread Killer said:

Back when I used to watch MLW, he, MJF and Hammerstone were the highlights for sure. 

Yeah, the Dynasty stuff was one reason I enjoyed MLW back then. I actually thought he would be a guy AEW would try to get as soon as possible. 

Very sad news, it really sucks, so young too. Hopefully he will get better. Joe Doering too (battling brain cancer for the second time).

[El-P]

So, Salina de la Renta is back.

Why has not she been brought in by IMPACT, AEW or WWE by now, I have no idea.

Probably won't be enough for me to bat an eye at MLW again, as they really don't have much to play with, the landscape being so very different from years ago before AEW snatched a whole lot of the best indie talents. They also got dropped from Reelz, so I guess it's Youtube 4Ever for good ol' Court Bauer. They still announced a relationship with NJPW and CMLL. MLW has such a bizarre arc. They are pretty irrelevant by now I guess in the grand scheme of things, much like Corgan's NWA.

[Autistic Dragon]

On 10/7/2023 at 7:58 AM, El-P said:

So, Salina de la Renta is back.

Why has not she been brought in by IMPACT, AEW or WWE by now, I have no idea.

Probably won't be enough for me to bat an eye at MLW again, as they really don't have much to play with, the landscape being so very different from years ago before AEW snatched a whole lot of the best indie talents. They also got dropped from Reelz, so I guess it's Youtube 4Ever for good ol' Court Bauer. They still announced a relationship with NJPW and CMLL. MLW has such a bizarre arc. They are pretty irrelevant by now I guess in the grand scheme of things, much like Corgan's NWA.

If i were running a wrestling company, i would jump at the chance to sign Salina. She's got a great look and kills in the role of the megalomaniacal bitch.

I agree MLW has had a bumpy ride. To be fair, there's evidence of WWE sabotaging them at certain points but there certainly seem to be some problems with booking and distribution. Reelz always struck me as a weird home for wrestling. From what i remember of it, it mostly focuses on celebrity stories. Still i watch MLW every week and find it a fun watch. Alex Kane is really winning me over as World Champ and i am a huge fan of The Calling, though sadly they seem to already be sewing the seeds of a breakup.

[Autistic Dragon]

I just looked up the results of One Shot and here are a few thoughts.

MLW should seriously consider separating its TV tapings from its PPVs. By the time One Shot proper began, the fans in the Melrose Ballroom had sat through TEN matches. Granted a number of them were rather short but still i have too imagine they were a bit winded by that point.

Why did they have Kojima go over Lawler? I love Koji as much as the next guy and i know he's a former MLW World champion but Lawler is around much more often, is also a former World champion among a few other accomplishments.

Related to the above, they gave the event the gimmick of being "co-promoted" with the World Titan Federation -the faction led by Mr Saint Laurent- then have them lose all their matches. It seems like if your going to put their logo on the events logo they should be made to look strong but the best they did was have Hammerstone win a bodybuilding contest that THEY sponsored and have their newest member Richard Holiday lay out Kane after he beat the factions "crown jewel".

[SirEdger]

Seems also that Hammerstone finished up with MLW. Officially a free agent come January 1st.