WWE Post Vince= The next AJ/NOAH?

[sek69]

Reading how Shane's plans to re-enact Vince's WM 3 opening at this year's show got nixed by Steph got me thinking: When Vince dies/gets too old to run things/retires and Steph takes over, how long before Shane says "fuck this bullshit" and starts his own company?

 

Shane's vision of wrestling seems to run against the Vince/Steph view, how long can he put up with her in charge, especially since she seems to enjoy vetoing any and all ideas he comes up with?

[kjh]

Vince will never fully retire, he won't relinquish real control of the company until the day he dies. And let's face it, with all the drugs he's taken and the stress his job entails, he'll be lucky to make it past 70.

 

I think it's more likely that Shane will piss his half of the fortune away on a failed MMA venture, than directly compete with his sister and son in law. Also, Linda will probably still be around to prevent all out civil war from breaking out.

[sek69]

Somehow I don't think that the person who sat by while her husband (allegedly, but who are we kidding?) nailed pretty much every female who worked for his company is going to have the inner strength to keep Shane and Steph apart. Just something about the way they act gives me the impression that they're only getting along to avoid getting Vince's foot up their asses. Especially how Shane seems to try too hard to convince people he and HHH are bros. I just don't see the two of them hanging out after a show.

 

The fact that Steph seems to be the embodiment of her father in female form would suggest once she gets full control of the company Shane might as well find another job because he'll never get anything approved ever again.

[jdw]

The company will go off the cliff after Vince dies. They'll have money to burn, and the family egos (Shane, Steph and Trip) to do so. But the Fear Of Vince won't be there to keep people in line. It will just be about the money.

 

Creatively, those three are bankrupt. I suspect that when reality sets in, they'll look for someone to buy the company out. With the several 100M Vince has already taken out of the company, they'll be well set.

 

 

John

[Guest Kenta Batista]

Sorry for bumping an old thread but I was thinking about this today and I really think that the state of wrestling and WWE would be better without Vince at the helm. Vince is all about everything that is bad with the business. WWE is a political hell and tons of wrestlers who have left WWE says they werent happy there because of the politics. Vince McMahon has the mentality that the 21st century doesn't need. Him and JJ stepping down and letting the new guard and new minds run the business would be the best thing possible.

 

Vince Logic that needs to DIE when he dies:

 

-If someone doesn't believe the wild story I tell them, they're on the take.

 

-If they think my story idea sucks, then they're obviously here sabotaging my company.

 

-Putting myself over all the wrestlers is a good idea, even though I only wrestle maybe twice a year.

 

- If a wrestler doesn't suck up to the boss or make good with the boss then FUCK em. No matter HOW over they are with the crowd

 

- If I didn't hear of it, its not popular or relevant.

[Bix]

I don't think that Stephanie and Triple H running the company would be much of a help for most of that.

[Bob Morris]

I would suspect, when Triple H ends up truly in the driver's seat, he'll retire from wrestling for the most part as he'll be earning his money the same way Vince earns it now, so he won't need the money from being part of matches and such.

 

That being said, I think we all know HHH will push his buddies or the guys he happens to think are the stars of tomorrow, even if fans think otherwise.

 

Stephanie might be a good choice to run the financial side of things, ala Linda, but when it comes to creative, she has no clue.

 

Who knows what Shane will do. I think it's more likely he just gets fed up and leaves the business altogether.

[Sean Liska]

My thinking is that pro wrestling in America will lose its relevance and slowly die out when Vince dies. I don't see who else can do his job.

 

Everyone loves complaining about the guy, but he's had a monopoly for eight years now and is still hugely successful. He created a post-Attitude core of main eventers in guys like Cena, Orton, Batista, Rey, and Edge. He's open-minded enough to have CM Punk and Jeff Hardy main eventing a PPV even though they both don't fit his mold. He's put a nice amount of emphasis on in-ring over the past couple years. Nobody can hype a big show or put a promotional machine behind a wrestler to make them a star like he can when he's on top of his game. I hope his heart can hold out until he's 90.

[Indikator]

Oh come on.

 

There will always be guys who want to earn $$$ with wrestling. The more promoters you know from all eras and countries the less likely you will think wrestling is going to die

[kjh]

Stephanie might be a good choice to run the financial side of things, ala Linda, but when it comes to creative, she has no clue.

Bob, what indications are there that Stephanie would be any better running the financial side of things than the creative side?

 

For all the doom-mongerers (and to be fair there is plenty of reasons to be worried), it should be remembered that everyone thought AAA would fall off the cliff when Antonio Pena died, which didn't happen. In all likelihood, Vince has created such a promotional juggernaut that the company will survive long after his death despite any in fighting, inexperience and incompetence in the immediate aftermath of his death.

[S.L.L.]

It's very hard to say what will happen when Vince dies, other than that I don't see the climate being right for an All Japan/NOAH style promotional split. Even a bunch of guys jumping to TNA en masse seems kinda unlikely. I think it's more about how stable the Stephanie/HHH marriage remains once they're in power. Shane feels like a non-entity. I think he's basically content to just go along for the ride these days. I don't see him making any serious moves.

[Loss]

By the time Vince passes, who knows, Stephanie and Shane's children may also be adults fighting for their piece of the pie.

[jdw]

The company will go off the cliff after Vince dies. They'll have money to burn, and the family egos (Shane, Steph and Trip) to do so. But the Fear Of Vince won't be there to keep people in line. It will just be about the money.

 

Creatively, those three are bankrupt. I suspect that when reality sets in, they'll look for someone to buy the company out. With the several 100M Vince has already taken out of the company, they'll be well set.

I tend to stick by all that.

 

John

[Guest The 3H's]

I think it will end up like Heyman sad a few years ago. Vince knows Steph/HHH are incompotent, but he just deals with it because the company is still making a ton of money, but he is truly just waiting for Shane's sons to get older so he can groom them to run the company and the WWE will still end up in the hands of a true McMahon Male, he probably feels Shane is too soft and incompotent to run the company.

[Sean Liska]

Stephanie might be a good choice to run the financial side of things, ala Linda, but when it comes to creative, she has no clue.

Bob, what indications are there that Stephanie would be any better running the financial side of things than the creative side?

 

For all the doom-mongerers (and to be fair there is plenty of reasons to be worried), it should be remembered that everyone thought AAA would fall off the cliff when Antonio Pena died, which didn't happen. In all likelihood, Vince has created such a promotional juggernaut that the company will survive long after his death despite any in fighting, inexperience and incompetence in the immediate aftermath of his death.

 

It is big enough that it could take years before business really takes a hit. Stepanie has been a creative force over an effectively booked promotion for the last few years here. HHH isn't an idiot. But long-term it won't stay at the level it's at right now. No one else is smart enough to sustain it.

[Sean Liska]

Oh come on.

 

There will always be guys who want to earn $$$ with wrestling. The more promoters you know from all eras and countries the less likely you will think wrestling is going to die

I didn't mean to say that wrestling in the country will die. But I could easily see it falling into a Japan-type level of irrelevance.

[Cox]

Too bad Vince didn't have more children. He had a Fredo and a Connie, but not a Sonny or a Michael, and he could have used a Michael for when he has the inevitable heart explosion.

[tomk]

The company will go off the cliff after Vince dies. They'll have money to burn, and the family egos (Shane, Steph and Trip) to do so. But the Fear Of Vince won't be there to keep people in line. It will just be about the money.

 

Creatively, those three are bankrupt. I suspect that when reality sets in, they'll look for someone to buy the company out. With the several 100M Vince has already taken out of the company, they'll be well set.

I tend to stick by all that.

 

John

 

Nine years ago I remember talking about how Vince's death would lead to an All Japan Woman type split: with no fear of Vince Austin gets his boys, Taker his, Bischoff/Hogan make a play, Steph/HHH etc.

 

But it's 2010 and an AJW like split seems completely impossible to me. There are no real mainstream stars who are backstage force who I see making play for cash. Fear of Vince matters when there are people who have to be kept in line. Perhaps the WWE this decade has been more Moolah and her troupes than AJW.

 

For better or worse Vince has done a great job marketing himself as the man who makes succesful wrestling in U.S. At this point Fear of Vince is less important than moneyed folks actual respect for Vince. Looking for someone to buy out the company makes sense, but without Vince who is buying?

[Ditch]

I wonder to what extent TNA's profitability issues, and WCW and ECW before that, would make 'the boys' less likely to see greener pastures in a post-Vince environment. It's one thing in early decade Japan where you have two huge, densely packed cities to draw from without a ton of effort, and could split off easily and get a piece of the pie to live on. It's another in the US where the population is dispersed, so you really need TV to draw more than a small number of mainstream fans. And while TV might be easier to come by than in Japan it's still not easy.

 

While some would jump to TNA, I think the bulk would stay on as long as they could.

[kjh]

I think it's more likely that Steph and Trips would buy out all the other shareholders and take the company back private, so they wouldn't have to deal with naysayers questioning their judgement, than them even contemplating selling their family legacy and personal play toy, respectively.

[Bob Morris]

Stephanie might be a good choice to run the financial side of things, ala Linda, but when it comes to creative, she has no clue.

Bob, what indications are there that Stephanie would be any better running the financial side of things than the creative side?

 

For all the doom-mongerers (and to be fair there is plenty of reasons to be worried), it should be remembered that everyone thought AAA would fall off the cliff when Antonio Pena died, which didn't happen. In all likelihood, Vince has created such a promotional juggernaut that the company will survive long after his death despite any in fighting, inexperience and incompetence in the immediate aftermath of his death.

 

Some interviews I've read with people who worked in WWE indicated that Stephanie does understand general business concepts. That may not necessarily translate to her being highly qualified to run the financial side of things, but I would imagine it's an area she'd be better suited for if she understands the basics.

 

The difference between the financial side and the creative side is that the financial side mostly is looking out for the bottom line, whereas with creative, you are trying to find the characters and storylines that help improve the bottom line. They do go hand in hand, but each element tends to require different skills and knowledge to make it work.

[Bob Morris]

To add to what else has been said, I suspect WWE will survive in some form after Vince passes away. The question is how long Steph and HHH will survive in their roles with the company. I could see somebody else possibly swooping in and taking over the operation, perhaps from within.

 

It would be a long shot at best, but I think the difference between Vince and Stephanie is that, while many in the industry don't like Vince, they respect him for what he has done. With Stephanie, I'd say that respect is next to nothing, so some might think it would be easier to pull the rug out from under her than it would be with Vince.

 

With HHH, it all depends on how astute he becomes in terms of being the head honcho, as opposed to the guy who has his share of power but isn't held to the same level of responsibility as Vince is.

 

As for TNA, even if the company were to get the proper direction, I have my doubts that company will ever be able to expand to the level of WWE. It's probably going to remain a niche promotion... which isn't a bad thing so long as it has a solid direction and can demonstrate profitability without Panda and Spike pumping money into it (of which it has neither at this point).

[artDDP]

This post got me thinking, How come Vince hasn't had a sudden, massive heart attack yet?

[jdw]

Nine years ago I remember talking about how Vince's death would lead to an All Japan Woman type split: with no fear of Vince Austin gets his boys, Taker his, Bischoff/Hogan make a play, Steph/HHH etc.

I don't see any of that.

 

More than no one will be afraid of pissing off Steph and Trip like they were of Vince.

 

 

But it's 2010 and an AJW like split seems completely impossible to me. There are no real mainstream stars who are backstage force who I see making play for cash. Fear of Vince matters when there are people who have to be kept in line. Perhaps the WWE this decade has been more Moolah and her troupes than AJW.

AJW died, as in the big picture did all of the groups that split from it.

 

 

For better or worse Vince has done a great job marketing himself as the man who makes succesful wrestling in U.S. At this point Fear of Vince is less important than moneyed folks actual respect for Vince.

Fear of Vince within the business has always been driven by money: if you get on the wrong side of Vince, you're cut off from the Money Train. No one is afraid of Vince punching them. They were afraid they could end up like Slaughter: a big star kicked to the curb (though in the end he got a job). Or now like Savage.

 

When I made my post, it was aimed at people inside the business. I doubt the people outside the business who deal with the WWE and Vince have much fear for him.

 

 

Looking for someone to buy out the company makes sense, but without Vince who is buying?

Same as always would: dumb money marks.

 

For the last fiscal year, the Company had $526.5M in revenue, $45.4M in net, paid out $81.4M in dividends, had $177.3M on the books in Cash and short-term investments and has all of $3.9M in debt. For all our knocking of the company declining, financially that's a company with really good books.

 

Someone out there would offer up a fair amount to buy it.

 

John

[jdw]

I think it's more likely that Steph and Trips would buy out all the other shareholders and take the company back private, so they wouldn't have to deal with naysayers questioning their judgement, than them even contemplating selling their family legacy and personal play toy, respectively.

That's a bit hefty. There were 25,163,600 shares of Class A stock out on May 1, 2009. Even at $10 a pop (say the price goes down from $13 if Vince drops dead), that's $250M. Now Vince has been sucking money out of the company over the years, but who knows what he's been doing with it. It also would go to Linda first, with whatever he has set aside for the Kids. Anyway... $250M is a sizable chunk of change. The company doesn't have the resources to buyback that amount unless they cut off the dividend and tap out the Cash & STI's... which they're not going to do. So they'd have to take out a loan for it.

 

Why bother? Outside shareholders exert very little impact over the company because of the way the voting is set up. If the prices drop, the company can slowly buy the shares back on the cheap.

 

The bigger problem is how the Estate is split. How much to Linda, how much to Steph and how much to Shane or how much goes into a Trust run by Linda. I think as long as she is around, it will likely stay in the family. But if Steph and Shane have joint control with Vince and Linda dead, at some point there will be a disagreement. One of them buying out the other is going to be a big headache and not cheap.

 

Perhaps Shane and Steph get along fine. My guess is that Shane thinks his sister is an idiot and his brother-in-law is a prick. He hides it, and doesn't let it bother him too much. But if Dad and Mom were dead, at some point there's going to be a slow burn and he probably would just as soon have his $250M to $500M (or whatever) to go off and do his own thing.

 

John