The Wade Keller Appreciation Thread

[jdw]

It wasn't 1Wrestling or Prodigy. It was the WCW Live show that Ryder and Borash hosted.

 

I don't recall if there was a lawsuit filed. He did at the very least bring it to the attention of Time Warner/Turner very strongly, and they did settled it out. I believe Eric had to apologize at the very least.

 

The "hate" that Eric had for the Torch predated that, and was aimed at Wade. I don't recall what specifically caused Eric to threaten Wade, and seem to recall that Wade was surprised by it since he had a decent relationship with Eric going back to the AWA days where both were based in the Twin Cities. I don't know if kjh is still a Torch sub. He probably could ask on Wade's forum... better from a "longtime reader" than as wise ass like myself.

 

 

John

[jdw]

Hell, considering regular journalists' alarming record of frequent errors, it really says something that the smark reporters are even worse than average. Pro wrestling journalism: the damp, smelly, silverfish-infested basement of the news media.

Mainstream journalism is probably worse at this point. Whatever valid criticism we aim at pro wrestling reporters can be written on a far large scale at the MSM.

 

John

[rovert]

Wade's Post PPV IWC Press Conferences concept for TNA is wonderfully daft even for Wade

[S.L.L.]

Wait, he has another TNA concept post? This I gotta see.

[Jkeats]

Wait, he has another TNA concept post? This I gotta see.

In the post I read he was saying that if TNA wants to talk to the fans so badly in a non-kayfabe manner, they could add some kind of "booker's commentary" feature on DVD releases. Basically, the equivalent of a shoot interview talking about what went into that particular show. That way, they can satisfy that desire and keep the show about the show without always breaking the fourth wall. That's what I got from it...

[Bix]

That's not a terrible idea as long as long as you include the word "if."

[kjh]

Wade on the Torch board:

 

The format's not great as it's just raw text, but here's a C&P of what Russo's previous Facebook comments area said before he deleted it. The Torch readers apparently asked the same questions I did, plus added some different points of view than just blind praise. Scanning over this content, I can see why Russo just deleted the whole thing and wanted to "start fresh."

What Wade apparently asked on Russo's Facebook comments area before they were deleted and Russo blocked him:

 

1. What critic has EVER said they wanted to see two hours of wrestling on a two hour wrestling program?

 

2. If Vince McMahon was no. 3 and ECW was no. 1, I have a feeling McMahon would have been finding time to watch ECW every week. When you're no. 2 by a big distance, you should be at least familiar with their talent (for scouting purposes) and watching the show each week so you have an idea what the fans you want to attract to your show are seeing each week on the other channel. Do you think Google or Motorola don't study the latest iPhone?

Wade again:

 

Just to be clear to people not familiar with this (which may include JG, because I think he's smart enough to know the difference were he familiar with the entire context here), this wasn't Russo's regular Facebook page. I wouldn't jump between Russo's recipe discussion with his neighbor and his birthday wish to his nephew and jam some tough question about TNA booking at him out of nowhere. That'd be crazy, and if I did that, Guttman's editorial comments would be totally called for, if not too understated. Of course that would be out of place. And, of course, that's not at all what happened.

 

This was a Facebook Fan page created to promote Russo's book. To help promote the book, he wrote essays that involved mentioning me by name and criticizing (one might say mocking or disparaging) things I have written. The page, with thousands of followers, included an open forum to ask him questions to respond to what he wrote about that topic. There were no posted rules that only people who love everything Russo does and says and who understand everything he says and does are to post.

 

I posted in that area a question pertaining to what he wrote ABOUT ME and what a reader of his posted ABOUT ME - one of which was inaccurate and the other just begging for clarification by Russo.

 

Hopefully that clears things for JG, who I can only assume didn't know the context. If he did know that context, I suppose he's entitled to his opinion, but it seems kinda silly or ridiculous.

[S.L.L.]

Russo was talking shit about Keller? Keller is a long-standing Russo apologist. Why would he go after him?

[Jkeats]

Russo was talking shit about Keller? Keller is a long-standing Russo apologist. Why would he go after him?

He is? He's always taking TNA to task for the convoluted storylines and overbooking.

 

Russo called out Keller by name and attributed a quote to him that he never said regarding the 1/4 Impact. He did it on his fan page on FB so Wade posted two questions asking him to clarify what he wrote. Russo ended up deleting the whole page. Russo does not like to have anything he says or does questioned or challenged, it appears.

[Bob Morris]

It's pretty ironic Russo would do such a thing when he was more than happy to engage with Keller in that four-hour "sitdown shoot interview" with Ed Ferrara joining him.

 

I wonder if Ferrara's royalty payments were higher than Russo's.

[S.L.L.]

Russo was talking shit about Keller? Keller is a long-standing Russo apologist. Why would he go after him?

He is? He's always taking TNA to task for the convoluted storylines and overbooking.

Maybe so, but if he's actually blaming Russo for those problems, that's a big new development. As recently as 2007, he was bending over backwards to deflect blame for TNA's failings from Russo onto Jarrett and Mantel.

[Jkeats]

Russo was talking shit about Keller? Keller is a long-standing Russo apologist. Why would he go after him?

He is? He's always taking TNA to task for the convoluted storylines and overbooking.

Maybe so, but if he's actually blaming Russo for those problems, that's a big new development. As recently as 2007, he was bending over backwards to deflect blame for TNA's failings from Russo onto Jarrett and Mantel.

 

I don't really remember him being an apologist although he does seem to try to be more open minded and generous about things... but he's definitely come down on Russo and has for awhile.

[rovert]

Russo was talking shit about Keller? Keller is a long-standing Russo apologist. Why would he go after him?

He is? He's always taking TNA to task for the convoluted storylines and overbooking.

Maybe so, but if he's actually blaming Russo for those problems, that's a big new development. As recently as 2007, he was bending over backwards to deflect blame for TNA's failings from Russo onto Jarrett and Mantel.

 

If you say so dude, either way it is hardly new.

[tomk]

Russo was talking shit about Keller? Keller is a long-standing Russo apologist. Why would he go after him?

He is? He's always taking TNA to task for the convoluted storylines and overbooking.

Maybe so, but if he's actually blaming Russo for those problems, that's a big new development. As recently as 2007, he was bending over backwards to deflect blame for TNA's failings from Russo onto Jarrett and Mantel.

 

 

I think he did that up into 2009. although it all has been pretty close to the stuff on the first page here...Russo is flawed but creative while Jarrett and Dutch are out of touch/ Russo shouldn't be blamed for stuff when it's more likely someone else's fault yadda yadda..

[S.L.L.]

April 16, 2007:

 

TNA fans have been misled, either through faulty assumptions or faulty reporting elsewhere, that the TNA product they are watching has much of anything to do with Vince Russo. Chanting "Fire Russo" at a TNA event is the equivalent of chanting "Fire Gewirtz" or "Fire Lagana" at Raw. This shouldn't be breaking news, but only PWTorch Newsletter readers have been told this in the past several months.

 

The anti-Russo people out for his spot on the booking committee have been doing a good job spreading anti-Russo propaganda for months, hoping the heat clears the way for their insertion or return to the booking committee. Russo, if he had control, might make the product even worse. Maybe it's taking a ton of effort by those with power and influence to keep him from making things worse. Or maybe he'd make it better. But what you see now is not a Russso product.

 

Just as in WWE where it's Vince McMahon's show, in TNA it's Jeff Jarrett's show. He's the primary booker with 80 percent influence over the final product, with another 15 percent going to Dutch Mantel, and 5 percent from Russo.

 

Since Russo's arrival, Jarrett has set the course for the direction for major storylines. He books the PPV line-ups, he's behind the gimmick-crazy format (which long-preceded Russo's arrival late last year), he's behind the convoluted finishes (which long-preceded Russo)... it's his product. At booking meetings, he's presented Russo with what he wants and it's Russo's job to do the grunt work of formatting it into a script. Russo can't say this outloud because he'd be implicating his boss, so he sits back and takes it. Good for Dixie to stand up for him in the UK Sun interview.

[rovert]

History has shown that was largely the case pretty much. Hasnt it?

[Sean Liska]

Yeah, what Wade wrote was probably accurate. It also seemed like he was implying that Cornette was feeding Meltzer anti-Russo information.

[jdw]

I always read Wade's comments on Russo that could be read as positive or apologist as one of his Devil's Advocate streaks. There have always been some issues where he'll stake out the anti "consensus" viewpoint, where the consensus is Dave Think.

 

I think Wade long has thought Russo is crap. His coverage of Russo in WCW pretty much exposed it, though he even then was willing to play Devil's Advocate because everyone else (from Dave on out) shat on Russo even more. He has a contrarian streak.

 

Just Wade's style. Some times it works for him because the consensus can get locked in the punch. *raises hand* And some times it ends up with Wade staking out a contrarian position that just doesn't work, then sticking with it beyond the shelf life.

 

John

[kjh]

I think Wade overplayed his hand when he wrote that. Russo's only 5% responsible for the final product when he was writing the whole scripts? S.L.L.'s quote reads like Russo was a source of Keller's at the time and Keller bought what he told him a little too much.

[S.L.L.]

I think Wade overplayed his hand when he wrote that. Russo's only 5% responsible for the final product when he was writing the whole scripts? S.L.L.'s quote reads like Russo was a source of Keller's at the time and Keller bought what he told him a little too much.

This. There's pointing out that Jarrett was the main guy running the show - which was true - but he was basically claiming that Russo was being paid to do nothing for no discernible reason - which was false.

 

The anti-Russo people out for his spot on the booking committee have been doing a good job spreading anti-Russo propaganda for months, hoping the heat clears the way for their insertion or return to the booking committee.

If he was wielding so little power, why would anyone be gunning for his spot? Was Lester Burnham working for TNA? "I want a job with as little responsibility as possible...."

 

At booking meetings, he's presented Russo with what he wants and it's Russo's job to do the grunt work of formatting it into a script.

So he hired Russo as a typist? I mean, I have a pretty low opinion of Russo. I wouldn't even let him work the mail room. But if you have a high enough opinion of Russo to hire him at all - and Jarrett and Russo were pretty tight - you hire him to book, since that's the thing he's allegedly good at. Even if it was Jarrett's vision dominating the company, if you look at TNA in 2007 and WCW in 2000, pretty clear that Jarrett's vision and Russo's vision are pretty much the same vision. I fail to see the creative differences that were being squelched by silencing Russo's vision for TNA.

 

"Hey, Jeff! I've got a great new idea for a tequila bottle on a pole match with between Kurt Angle and Christy Hemme, and at the end, it turns out they're brother and sister and they're fucking each other!"

 

"No way, Vince. I've already worked out plans for my whiskey bottle on a pole match between Kurt Angle and Christy Hemme, and at the end, it turns out they're brother and sister and they're fucking each other!"

 

Seriously, the only possible conflict of interest I could see is over what to put on the pole. It was an obvious bullshit claim, and Keller's an idiot, so he bought it.

[kjh]

The anti-Russo people out for his spot on the booking committee have been doing a good job spreading anti-Russo propaganda for months, hoping the heat clears the way for their insertion or return to the booking committee.

If he was wielding so little power, why would anyone be gunning for his spot? Was Lester Burnham working for TNA? "I want a job with as little responsibility as possible...."

Actually, the anti-Russo propagandists supposedly gunning for his spot, Jim Cornette and Mike Tenay, clearly didn't want his job at the time. Cornette, because he was burnt out from booking pretty much non stop for over 15 years and all the politics that went with it. Tenay, because he's never really sought out such a position.

[jdw]

Lots of people in wrestling are happy to take spots that don't have "power". The reason is obvious:

 

Money

 

Be it an increase in $$$, or simply the ability to make it.

 

TNA's checks clear at the bank. They appear not to be small ones to those lucky enough to be on the dole. Where do you think Corny would make more money: TNA or ROH?

 

Look at the WWE Creative Team. Lots of people who know that the true decision making comes down to Vince, Steph and Trip. When they're not given something by those three to "write", they're dreaming up ideas that will get them on the good side of those three. Why?

 

Money

 

It's wrestling, Jake. They're all whores for the cash. And anyone else who is making $$$ is a potential rival to their own making $$$.

 

John

[Sean Liska]

I think Wade overplayed his hand when he wrote that. Russo's only 5% responsible for the final product when he was writing the whole scripts? S.L.L.'s quote reads like Russo was a source of Keller's at the time and Keller bought what he told him a little too much.

I dobut Wade would be that obvious. He destroyed Russo in WCW, he's picked apart his recent Facebook posts, and he'll destroy him again if it comes out that Russo is the vision behind the current TNA product.

 

I'd agree that it's likely Wade being contrarian, similar to him debating whether Benoit was truly a great worker back in the day. It seems like he just does it to be different than Meltzer.

[tomk]

History has shown that was largely the case pretty much. Hasnt it?

Really? Did TNA become any less Russo filled nonsense once Dutch and Jarrett were removed?

Was it as nutty if not worse?

 

 

This is where vision and guts comes into play. Oh, and being up on today's entertainment scene. It's where one begins to lose faith in major change happening, as Jeff Jarrett is notoriously out of touch when it comes to pop culture outside of Nashville. Dutch Mantel? Even worse. Vince Russo? Better, but is he willing to try to use his skills and energy toward a completely different vision than the one that contributed to a huge wrestling boom ten years ago, when the world was a different place? Probably not. But maybe. And it might be the only way.

It may be playing devil's advoocate. But I've watched lots and lots of Dutch booked Puerto Rico (plus some Dutch booked Memphis), and unfortuantely I've watched a ton of Russo. Keller seemed to be regularly blaming signature Russo stuff on people who weren't Russo.

[kjh]

I dobut Wade would be that obvious. He destroyed Russo in WCW, he's picked apart his recent Facebook posts, and he'll destroy him again if it comes out that Russo is the vision behind the current TNA product.

Wade's bias has been pretty obvious in the past with some of his sources and their enemies (Sean Waltman and Chris Jericho being the most obvious), so that argument really doesn't hold much water. Clearly Russo isn't a source of his now. But it wouldn't surprise me if Russo was a source for the Torch when he came back to TNA in late 2006 / early 2007 until he got pissed at something Wade wrote and broke off all communications with him. I mean Wade's contrarian nature only explains so much, someone must have told him that Russo had such little influence on the final product for him to report it so emphatically and Russo (or one of his cronies) would be the prime suspect.