The Wade Keller Appreciation Thread

[tigerpride]

The same guy who burnt down Jeff's house also was in the intruder that killed Nancy and Daniel.

[Loss]

Perhaps it was Ted Turner.

[jdw]

Pretty embarassing.

 

 

John

[S.L.L.]

Perhaps it was Ted Turner.

Perhaps it was Kane.

[sek69]

Perhaps it was Ted Turner.

Perhaps it was Kane.

 

 

Well I think we just found the first program Jeff will be involved in when he gets back.

 

 

"KANE, YA'LL KILT MAH DAWG"

[Bix]

From Wade I guess at the Torch board:

 

Earlier today a PWTorch contributor with posting privileges posted a blog with inappropriate and tasteless content regarding Jeff Hardy's house burning down. I apologize for that content making it live on the site for the short time it was published before being taken down.

[jdw]

That's probably how HRC should have handled he vote on Iraq.

 

 

John

[S.L.L.]

Courtesy of Dukes, my homeboy from another board:

 

Oh btw SLL, I got the scoop on that Torch thing you posted: Turns out it was part of a satirical thing that Jeremy Maes wrote, and some fag who posts primarily on the F4W board posted a thread on the Torch forums with that part you posted and said that Wade would be hearing from Jerry McDevitt in the morning, so Wade got shook, took it down and issued the apology lickety split.

[Bix]

I take back anything positive I ever said about Jason Powell/PW.net.

 

While I doubt that I would ever consider buying an entire CD of entrance themes, just because it would be a waste of money, there are several that I would consider downloading individually.

 

First on that list is the DX theme. It's a great song by itself, and it would fit in with my other music. I might also download the themes of Vince McMahon, Ted DiBiase, Edge, and maybe the one Triple H had around 2001 by Rage Against the Machine. Mark Henry is another one that I'd think about. Those are pretty much the only ones, though, and I for sure wouldn't by an entire CD just for those six songs.

People online thinking that Connecticut Yankee was Rage Against The Machine got old TEN YEARS AGO.

[Loss]

So much funny stuff here.

 

PWTorch.com reader Michael M. asks: I really enjoyed the question you and Bruce had recently on a "Bruce Mitchell Audio Show" (VIP) asking why certain wrestlers never had a WWF Title run. My question is why wouldn't Curt Hennig be a good choice for even a transitional champion run in his first WWF stint? Ted DiBiase's gimmick was he was the Million Dollar Man and Bruce said that's one reason why he didn't need a title run. Well, Curt Hennig's gimmick was he was Mr. Perfect, so wouldn't the WWF title around his waste help solidify his gimmick more than his ability to throw a football 60 yards down field to himself? He was a great worker, a good talker, and always had great heat. Am I crazy or was he not considered for a main event push against Hogan? Just wanted to know your thoughts.

 

He would have been a good transitional champion in WWE. He would have been very high on my list of wrestlers deserving consideration for at least a short run with the title. I'm not sure that Vince McMahon would have been against it, but timing-wise, it just didn't work out. Hulk Hogan was champ during Hennig's early time in the WWF. Yokozuna was the chosen heel to be WWF Champion after Hogan left. There were other strong pushed heels around such as Randy Savage, Razor Ramon, and Bam Bam Bigelow at the time, too. Hennig then ended up with serious back problems and cashed in on an insurance policy and became a color commentator for a long stretch of his prime.

 

One thing working against Curt was that he wasn't a great interview. He was solid, but he was really an underachiever in that area who didn't really get beyond the two-dimensional Mr. Perfect cliches. He lacked that "connection" with fans on promos that takes someone to the next level, something Jake Roberts, Mr. Kennedy, and JBL did, but Billy Gunn/Kip James, Shawn Stasiak, and Test - just to grab a few examples - never had. Hennig was probably between those two groups in promo ability, and maybe could have risen to the occasion if given the spotlight. He also was a bit of an underachiever in the ring given how much talent he had. He just never rose to that four-star reliable level in terms of exciting, memorable matches that felt real and told a dramatic story. Part of the reason was WWE didn't demand that of talent yet, as that would come a couple years later, but it was noted that he wasn't a standout "show-stealer" when given good opponents in the early-'90s.

 

Then along came Shawn Michaels, who was better in every way than Hennig. Michaels emulated Hennig's bumps, patterning certain aspects of his style after Hennig when they both were in their formative years in the late-1980s AWA era (which I had the benefit of watching in person here in Minnesota). Michaels was the runaway choice to get the opportunties he did, even if Hennig was healthy. There was a "transition" torch-passing moment at SummerSlam '93 when Michaels beat Hennig which marked the end of Hennig's run as a second tier WWF heel and marked the launching point for Michaels's rise to a top heel. Hennig would eventually return to the ring in WCW and was just a role player as partying and drugs really took a toll on him leading up to his premature death.

 

If you have a subject you'd like me to address in a future "Ask the Editor" feature, send it to [email protected].

1. That's the first time I've ever heard anyone argue that Shawn Michaels beating Curt Hennig at Summerslam '93 put Michaels on the map.

 

2. Hennig was a babyface at the time.

 

3. It was a countout victory.

 

4. How freaking hard is it to say "Hennig didn't draw as a challenger when programmed against Hogan"?

 

It's kinda funny that he always seems to take the long way around answering every question, and in the end, doesn't even really answer it. Keller should write for Online Onslaught.

[Guest KCook]

Sure to all that, but I can't wrap my brain around the idea that Curt Hennig lacked freaking Ken Kennedy's ability to connect with a crowd. In Keller-ese I'm assuming that means he knows the guy from his days on the indies and gets the occasional tidbit from him?

[Cox]

Yeah, while listing JBL, Kennedy, and Jake Roberts, I couldn't help but think, "One of these things is not like the other." Kennedy is Shawn Stasiak with a better push.

[tomk]

4. How freaking hard is it to say "Hennig didn't draw as a challenger when programmed against Hogan"?

 

Reading that passage and I don't think he gets that point.

Or would know what to do with it.

[jdw]

I agree on the point that Wade glosses over the fact that Hennig bombed his ass off opposite Hogan.

 

Going back to the original question:

 

"My question is why wouldn't Curt Hennig be a good choice

for even a transitional champion run in his first WWF stint?"

 

Hard to tell what he means by "first WWF stint". Clearly not his time in the early 80s.

 

07/29/88 return

10/01/88 Mr. Perfect skits start airing

 

One or the other of those is probably what he means as the start of the "first stint".

 

The end is a problem

 

08/26/91 Injury (SummerSlam '91)

11/25/92 Return (Survivor Series '92)

10/29/93 Wanders Off (pre-Survivor Series '93)

 

I think a lot of us in 1991 thought that the injury was a career ender. I can't what it was that Meltzer wrote at the time that made me think it, but it was the vibe I had. The coming back as an announcer in the Ventura role played into that, since Jesse never truly came back in a sustained way from his health issues. The seconding of Flair seemed to play into them looking at another way to get use out of him.

 

Of course he did comeback opposite Flair, and then sent Flair out the door. But he never really was pushed massively in that run. I don't even recall the feud with Michaels being all that major.

 

But what Wade misses is looking at the periods closely. The real run where he was healthy and pushed was:

 

10/01/88 - 08/26/91

 

03/27/88 Randy Savage

04/02/89 Hulk Hogan

04/01/90 Ultimate Warrior

01/19/91 Sgt. Slaughter

03/24/91 Hulk Hogan

 

We can scratch Hennig taking Savage's place - Curt wasn't even in the fed when it started. The alternative to Savage was Ted, and that was the plan initially and got changed. But even that is moot.

 

Savage transitioned directly into Hogan with the huge heal turn that made a shitload of money. There is no spot in there for Curt to get the belt from Savage and drop it to Hogan.

 

Hogan transitioned directly into Warrior. WWF thinking was always pretty clear in that they were looking for a main event of the Hogan-Warrior and Hogan vs. Savage level, and Hogan vs. Warrior was it. There isn't a place for Curt in there.

 

Which leaves Slaughter. Look... the thing bombed. But Vince did have a Big Idea to try to play off the war. It side stepped Hogan vs. Warrior II, got a transition in, and thought it would do huge business. It didn't. But it's kind of hard to picture a Big Idea with Hennig vs. Warrior at the Rumble and Hennig vs. Hogan at Mania that would have been... what? Just not Vince's style.

 

So there just isn't any place in there for Hennig to even be programed as a transition. All of those title changes where long planned out. It wasn't an era where the WWF just threw shit at the wall. It's one of the reasons the the Savage-DiBiase switch is memorable - that type of stuff didn't happen a lot back then with the WWF Title.

 

When Curt came back in 1992, Bret had the belt in Vince's desperate attempt to "do something". Yoko got the belt specifically to hand it over to Hogan a few minutes later, and then to be Hogan's "opponent" coming out of Mania. That really isn't a spot for Curt Hennig, is it?

 

Yoko ended up getting the long run from KOR to Mania because various plans didn't come together, such as the plans for Hogan and the plans for the Lex Express. Again, there isn't a spot in there for Curt before he wandered off.

 

John

[Eduardo]

Wade Keller posted this today:

 

By Wade Keller, Torch editor

 

-I'm working from a secret remote location today - okay, I confess, a local coffee shop - testing my abilities to work remotely on my laptop and actually get work done in prep for a vacation coming up in a few weeks where I'll be taking my work with me and hopefully nobody will notice I'm away from the office. Within five minutes of sitting with my iced cold press coffee (with soy and caramel), the two coffee shop workers begin discussing what "surprisingly good actors pro wrestlers are." Especially Steve Austin, says the guy, who then went on to talk about how scary Kane's movie was. Anyway, I don't get out much during the day, but does everybody talk about wrestling out in public? I want to hear your amusing stories of overhearing conversations about pro wrestling in random public places: [email protected].

[Loss]

GMail? Did they have to downgrade their website or something recently? I thought they had @pwtorch.com email addresses.

[jdw]

I suspect the pwtorch.com accounts all still work. But he's always had other e-mail accounts, and it's possible that he has the Torch e-mails set to autoforward. I know that I have that for my tOA account. Tossing out the Gmail just makes it direct... would be my guess.

 

 

John

[kjh]

I found this quote from Wade Keller's review of the CBS Elite XC show amusing:

 

Kimbo should be fighting openers, not because he's not a draw, not because he might not be the greatest heavyweight fighter of all time in two years (although I'd bet the ranch against it), but because he hasn't proven himself yet and out of respect to the fighters who learn disciplines and have fought for 15 years with skill and savvy to give this sport an aura of legitimacy, Kimbo should have had to pay dues before moving into the main event. Lawler vs. Smith should have been the main event. Kimbo should have been in a "special attraction" semi-final match at most.

[Bix]

In the "He's not wrong but he still comes off badly" section of this thread, Wade uses Tim Russert's death to pimp the vegan alternative lifestyle:

 

I'm broken up about this. He was just such a model journalist who had increidble passion for his job. It may have been that passion that killed him. Tom Brokaw said in his announcement that Tim "worked to the point of exhaustion" and only took two Sundays off per year. I feel so so sad for his family, including his father who is in his 80s. In his honor, let one lesson be that whatever genetic make-up we all have, do everything you can to take care of yourself for you and your family, friends, and profession. Exercise every day, eat real food and mostly plants, and take time off from work no matter how much you love your job or feel driven by the need to work yourself to the point of exhaustion. I hate to say this, but in recent years I really feared for this just looking at him. He really seemed to not be taking care of himself and was known for working so hard and tirelessly. He probably cheated himself (and us) out of 40 more years of his incredible political insight by not taking an hour out each day to exercise and eat better. I'm still just in shock.

[jdw]

Not to speak badly of the dead, but if Tim is the model of modern journalism, it's one of the reasons why it's so fucked up. :/

 

 

John

[Bix]

http://pwtorch.com/artman2/publish/font_co...cle_29070.shtml

 

KELLER SHORT: A message to Michael Scherer of TIME - you are not the center of the universe, and the big story is not the breaking news of how pro wrestling shows are produced

Jan 7, 2009 - 9:18:16 PM

 

By Wade Keller, PWTorch editor

 

I'd like to tell Michael Scherer of TIME Magazine that the most fascinating aspect of Stephanie McMahon's testimony was not the detailed run through how a WWE TV show is produced. It was not new information. It has been detailed in dozens of books, and prior to that hundreds of newsletters such as Pro Wrestling Torch, and many interviews including the pioneering "Torch Talk" series which was the first ongoing series of insider interviews that revealed the inner-workings of the business dating back to the late-'80s.

 

I don't blame Michael Scherer for not having read Pro Wrestling Torch over the years, or sat down to read one of the dozens of pro wrestling books the detailed, often from a first-hand perspective, more detailed accounts than Stephanie's, but I do blame him for being self-centered enough to think that because he had never heard such "fascinating" detail into how pro wrestling operates, then it must've never been stated before.

 

It didn't take a Congressional Oversight Committee to reveal how pro wrestling shows are scripted and product. It's sad that a journalist of his standing would look past the swiss cheese, insincere aspects of the steroid policies in this industry over the years that have, without question in my opinion, led to deaths and say what was more fascinating is that Stephanie talked about how a TV show is produced, revealing nothing that wasn't reported and chronicled 20 years ago.

 

It was hard enough to listen to members of the oversight committee sound like fanboys sitting down with their favorite magician telling stories of how tricks are done, but I forgave them since a lot of that background on how the industry works is necessary understanding the nature of how wrestlers indeed compete for spots on the roster, and how appearance is part of that formula of success, even if match outcomes are predetermined. A writer for TIME should not have looked past the heart of the story and turned into a fanboy himself. It was a fascinating story, but not new information. But even if it had been new information, it wasn't the important story. Michael Scherer just made Vince McMahon's day with that response. It's like arriving a crash scene and seeing a reporter marvel at the cool car that was in the wreck.

[Bob Morris]

Is the article Keller is referring to available online? I'd like to read it just to see for myself what the guy in question was doing with the article.

[kjh]

Reading the comments to Michael Scherer's article, some of the romanticism of the past and the vilification of Vince McMahon is a bit much. Substance abuse problems didn't start in 1984 when Vince McMahon went national and he was far from the only promoter that happily pushed steroid abusers.

 

EDIT: Link to the article for Bob.

[Bob Morris]

Thanks, Kev. I actually did find the article via Dave, who mentioned it, along with one from Marc Ambinder's blog (he writes for The Atlantic) as well.

 

I can also see where Bix's decision to pull the Keller bit into this thread comes from... Scherer does hint that the whole talk about what goes into producing wrestling seems pretty silly when it has little to nothing to do with why there are steroid and other drug problems in pro wrestling.

 

Here's the Ambinder entry: http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archiv...seball.php#more

 

EDIT: This Ambinder entry is pretty funny with the shot thrown in at Antonio Inoki: http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archiv...ch_hogan_in.php

[kjh]

Another thing: all this exaggerated talk about Hogan being a terrible wrestler but still managing to get over, yet no-one points out the pink elephant standing in the Congress room, that his appeal was in part due to his steroid enhanced physique. His very basic match always finished with a post match posing routine and you need more than just incredible psychology to pull that off.