Comments that don't warrant a thread

[Loss]

I'm not seeing it. What did Gordy do that was better than Morishima?

Lay out matches, feed comebacks, sell, present himself as a champion, work heel, work babyface, work tag teams, work the US main event style, work the AJ (NOAH) heavyweight style, prove himself in several environments, etc. etc. etc.

[Loss]

Whats the hate for Morishima?

It's just the latest round of "Meltzer be fer him, so we be agin' him!"

 

I haven't seen any Morishima bashing in this thread. The argument is that he's not a "better working version of Terry Gordy", or whatever the quote was.

[sek69]

Heh it's great living in a wrestling town sometimes. Tyler Kennedy just scored a goal in today's Penguins game and the sound guy at Mellon Arena played a clip of MIIIIIIIIIISTER KENNNNNNNNNNNNEDY.

[Loss]

The Great Muta's entrance music in 1989 was pretty great.

 

Also, I'm still amazed that an American promotion booked a Japanese guy as well as WCW did Muta did that year.

[Marty]

Heh it's great living in a wrestling town sometimes. Tyler Kennedy just scored a goal in today's Penguins game and the sound guy at Mellon Arena played a clip of MIIIIIIIIIISTER KENNNNNNNNNNNNEDY.

That sort of thing happens in dead wrestling towns like Ottawa (where I live). When the AAA baseball Ottawa Lynx played, before the first pitch was thrown, you'd hear "Time to play the game". Also, whenever something good happened (like the Lynx scoring some runs or whatever), because Lynx are a breed of cat, you'd hear the beginning of Sable's music.

[Bix]

This is terrifying. Marc Mero holding a recent X-ray of his back (which needs a metal rod inserted):

 

[Resident Evil]

I know everyone here has probably watched wrestling on youtube and than read the comments about the match. I know a lot of people like to diss youtube comments.

 

However, I love reading them. Yes, there are some stupid comments but there are also some great ones. But what I like is that I think it's a better sample of what the average fan or even non average fan thinks of a certain match or wrestling promotion than the overall opinions you'll get on a message board.

[Loss]

I know everyone here has probably watched wrestling on youtube and than read the comments about the match. I know a lot of people like to diss youtube comments.

 

However, I love reading them. Yes, there are some stupid comments but there are also some great ones. But what I like is that I think it's a better sample of what the average fan or even non average fan thinks of a certain match or wrestling promotion than the overall opinions you'll get on a message board.

The average fan thinks everything that happened before they started watching is "gay" and thinks DX skits are funny. I'm not saying that to talk down about anyone, I'm just pointing out that's the average fan. I don't know that You Tube comments are necessary to see that.

 

You also have a lot of non-fan "You know that's fake, right?" types still hanging around.

[anarchistxx]

The average fan thinks everything that happened before they started watching is "gay" and thinks DX skits are funny.

I don't think that's strictly true. Most of the comments I've seen on YouTube have been 'this is crap no way as good as attitude era', or if they're watching thw Attitude Era, 'this is awesome wrestling today is crap'.

 

But then, that's if you're looking at YouTube members as your average fan. If your average fan is a guy who watches it and doesn't look for it in the internet (Is there any of those left?) then they'd probably say things more similar to what you suggested. But then again, I've never met these people, so I can't say.

 

By the way...I know somebody already mentioned it somewhere...but is online wrestling discussion at an all time low? It seemed to peak around 2004 with the big buzz for Ring Of Honor at the time and the Benoit/Guerrero pushes, and the long Kobashi reign, but it has dropped off considerably since then. I don't know about just the random sites, but the places like Smarkschoice and DVDVR have either shut down or are really low in activity. Anyone suggest a reason for this?

[Loss]

A lack of new material worth discussing, combined with the Benoit murders I think are the main culprits.

 

I also think it's easier for more people to talk when there are more established consensus opinions. I can't really think of any subject involving wrestling these days that the majority of those who post seem to agree on, except for that when wrestlers die, it is unfortunate.

[Resident Evil]

I wonder where you can get the best overall sample of what an average wrestling fan's viewpoint. This place is great, I like DVDVR, smarkschoice I still consider my home and so on but none of these sites really have the opinions of a typical fan. We're all super hardcore fans.

 

I don't think that's strictly true. Most of the comments I've seen on YouTube have been 'this is crap no way as good as attitude era', or if they're watching thw Attitude Era, 'this is awesome wrestling today is crap'.

Yup, you see this a lot too with the 80s wrestling. It ruled and today's wrestling is horrible. I've seen the same throught process for other TV stuff besides wrestling too.

 

 

You also have a lot of non-fan "You know that's fake, right?" types still hanging around.

Yup, I get such a kick out of these guys. They're just so smart.

[jdw]

By the way...I know somebody already mentioned it somewhere...but is online wrestling discussion at an all time low?

I would think so, though not doubt there is a shitload of wrestling discussion going on out there.

 

 

It seemed to peak around 2004 with the big buzz for Ring Of Honor at the time and the Benoit/Guerrero pushes, and the long Kobashi reign, but it has dropped off considerably since then. I don't know about just the random sites, but the places like Smarkschoice and DVDVR have either shut down or are really low in activity. Anyone suggest a reason for this?

Not even close. I think the online discussion/buzz peaked during the Monday Night Wars. Having both the WWF and WCW had two massive fan bases along with that middle ground that watched both and either liked it or was annoyed by it. Mix in ECW, which to me seemed to have a much bigger online buzz than ROH ever has had.

 

I don't think discussion of US wrestling "current affairs" has been remotely close to that since there, whether it's the amount of it or the quality of it. There might be better discussion, and more of it, of "historical" stuff. But it's pretty much always a drop in the bucket relative to "current stuff".

 

I'm willing to bet a lot of other people who were online in the late 90s and early 00s would agree. While some of us may have had our *own* peak of interesting, writing and reading after that overall peak, I think we'd agree that the amount of online wrestling interest and stuff was at a high in the late 90s and no later than 2000 before WCW and ECW went off the cliff.

 

I'd have a tough time putting a finger on when puro discussion peaked. I think there was an increase in the number of people watching it overtime as it got easier to get ones hands on it (moving from tapes to the DVD & file sharing explosion). I'm not sure if the discussion improved with that mass of posters. You can take All Japan. More people probably "talked" online about matches from the 90s in the *00's*, but I'm not sure if there was a great deal of anything new being talked about it. New Japan discussion in the 00's had volume, but a lot of it was around the myopic stuff of Stuart... which really isn't discussion of much use. It's hard to say that's a "peak" other than someone running a house organ style sit for the promotion.

 

That's not a "better back then" argument on my part. Discussion on 80s and 70s puroresu has peaked in this decade because (i) a large number of matches became available, (ii) a lot of people were watching them, and (iii) a lot of those people brought new viewpoints to those matches that were insightful relative to what people thought in the past... or what wasn't even pondered.

 

John

[Al]

Agreed with John. Online wrestling discussion declined after WCW died, simply because there was then a lack of real consistent wrestling news and rumors.

[ohtani's jacket]

I'm sure there's just as much discussion now as there was back in the Monday Night Wars era. Hell, if you mistype the address for this site you get taken to a news site that'll throw you back ten years. Maybe it's a peak in people's interest in online discussion, opposed to the quality. The stuff I read today is far more interesting than ten years ago.

[S.L.L.]

It's kinda complicated, but not really.

 

I think it just naturally follows that the quantity of wrestling discussion is going to be relative to the quantity of wrestling fans. The quality of wrestling discussion is the relative to the quantity of fans who tend to bring quality discussion who currently are watching stuff. The quantity of quality discussion then depends on the quantity of wrestling being watched by fans who bring quality discussion.

 

WWE still has the most discussion of any promotion out there, because it's the most watched. It has less discussion now than it did in 1998-2001, because less people are watching it. But because they've been putting out a lot of good stuff the last few years, there's probably about as much quality WWE discussion as there was back then. They discussed it then, because it was hot and they were all watching it, and they discuss it now, because it's good and they're all watching it. I'd bet it pretty much evens out. The WWE has been kinda sorta on the precipice of another boom for a few years now. At this point, I'm not holding my breath waiting for it to actually happen, but if it does, and they maintain their current quality, I imagine there would be more quality WWE discussion than ever before.

 

The US indy scene is a much hotter topic now than it was during the Monday Night Wars, even considering ECW. It gets a lot more quality discussion, and a lot more discussion in general. It's kinda cooling off now, so it doesn't get as much discussion - quality or otherwise - as it did a few years ago. It's much the same with Japan and Mexico, especially when you factor in the technological developments John noted. And historical stuff's availability and ease of distribution make that as hot a topic as it's ever been.

 

In a way, I think John and Annie are both right. 1998-2001 probably had the peak of the quantity of wrestling discussion, and 2004-2006 probably had the peak for quality. But I think the cause for that ties back to the wrestling itself.

[anarchistxx]

Not even close. I think the online discussion/buzz peaked during the Monday Night Wars. Having both the WWF and WCW had two massive fan bases along with that middle ground that watched both and either liked it or was annoyed by it

Maybe, I wasn't really around then, I started coming Online to wrestling sites in early 2000.

 

I seem to remember with DVD's becoming really widespread and cheap to get hold of, discussion in 03/04 was at a huge level. I might be wrong though, as like I said, I wasn't coming online until the Monday Night Wars were reaching the end.

 

Discussion of matches, then, likely peaked around that time, or maybe I'm just confusing it with my own peak, as that's when I wrote tons of reviews and was rwally enthusiastic about ROH and the like...then there was the SC poll in 06(?) which generated a ton of activity, and it seemed to have been all downhill from there.

 

The WWE has been kinda sorta on the precipice of another boom for a few years now. At this point, I'm not holding my breath waiting for it to actually happen,

See, I hear so many people saying this, and from the outside as I seem to be at the moment, I can't see it. I don't think any of the current characters are edgy enough to grab the attention of the mainstream and make wrestling cool again. Personally, I think it'll take a whole new direction, and there won't be another 'boom' like the last one for the next ten years or more.

 

TNA isn't getting any bigger, which means WWE really has little incentive to, there's worldwide financial worries right now, and it looks like UFC and MMA if anything are going to create the buzz. Back in 98/99/00 everyone you talked to either watched or had heard about wrestling, but at the minute it's pretty embarassing to be seen to watch it. It's going to take something really special and different for that to change, and it won't happen while Vince is still in charge.

[S.L.L.]

The WWE has been kinda sorta on the precipice of another boom for a few years now. At this point, I'm not holding my breath waiting for it to actually happen,

See, I hear so many people saying this, and from the outside as I seem to be at the moment, I can't see it. I don't think any of the current characters are edgy enough to grab the attention of the mainstream and make wrestling cool again. Personally, I think it'll take a whole new direction, and there won't be another 'boom' like the last one for the next ten years or more.

 

You do realize there's an inherent contradiction in what you just said, right?

[anarchistxx]

Yeah, I know. Thing is, I still read the results, and to be honest most of the wrestlers were there when I used to watch it at least part time.

 

I should probably phrase it as from the limited amount I've seen, none of the guys they have around now, and the product they are putting on, is not edgy or original enough. It isn't hard to tell though, since I read the Raw and especially the Smackdown results and it's always a case of 'same old'.

[S.L.L.]

Yeah, I know. Thing is, I still read the results, and to be honest most of the wrestlers were there when I used to watch it at least part time.

 

I should probably phrase it as from the limited amount I've seen, none of the guys they have around now, and the product they are putting on, is not edgy or original enough. It isn't hard to tell though, since I read the Raw and especially the Smackdown results and it's always a case of 'same old'.

I meant more that your complaint was that no one struck you as "edgy" enough while complaining that they needed to do something "different", even though "edgy" is what they've been doing for about a decade now. "Edgy" is not different. Cena, like him or not, is different.

[anarchistxx]

Well, they've been attempting 'edgy'. What I meant by 'edgy' was trendy and cool and different.

 

Cena is kind of different, but I'm still not sure he's the next big star. Obviously they're pushing him as such, and he's getting huge reactions either way from the current fans, but I'm not sure he's drawing any new fans in. And if he is, I'd wager he's sending the same amount of fans away.

 

The two casual fans I know absolutely hate Cena with a passion.

[Resident Evil]

How has Jamie Knoble been doing in the ring lately? I was always very impressed with his work and from what I see he's getting more TV time as of late. I also hear Michaels is a big fan too so maybe that'll help him out in the future.

[S.L.L.]

How has Jamie Knoble been doing in the ring lately? I was always very impressed with his work and from what I see he's getting more TV time as of late. I also hear Michaels is a big fan too so maybe that'll help him out in the future.

He's still really good, and he's gotten a lot more TV time lately with the Palumbo/McCool angle. His last singles match against Palumbo a few weeks ago on Smackdown was pretty boss. Worth going out of your way to see if you haven't already.

[Loss]

The fact that those fans hate Cena with a passion is a really good thing, unless they hate him so much that they refuse to buy a pay-per-view or see a house show that has him on it. Liking or disliking Cena isn't really the issue. People care enough about him to strongly react one way or the other.

 

I still think they're a few years away from having to do the turn. It would be a mistake to do it right now, because there's no new babyface at that level that's gotten over big enough to replace him in that spot. But when it does happen, I suspect it will be pretty huge.

 

Where the problems will start is when Cena starts acting more heelish after the turn. It's just going to motivate the fans who hate him now to start cheering him again because he comes across more cool.

 

Scott Hall and Kevin Nash acting too cool for the room in 1996-1997 really fucked up the face/heel distinction and created all sorts of complexities -- permanently, it seems.

[Guest KCook]

So Meltzer wrote this at Wrestling Classics:

 

Vince has discussed MMA for years but has always been negative on it. Shane is a fan but the rest of the family have never even watched a show. Vince watched one show only because his underlings insisted on it (Liddell vs. Jackson in May) because several thought they were losing ground, although obviously couldn't put it in those words or they'd risk their job. Vince watched the show, saw the 1:00 main event where the "wrong guy" got knocked out, and his conclusion was that it would never last because you'd market and make someone a star, but couldn't control his outcomes.

I understand why Vince would think that shoots can't work in the long run. What really makes me question his sanity is that he looked at Chuck Liddell, a bland guy in his late 30s with a mohawk and a beer gut, and Rampage Jackson, an unbelievably charismatic guy with a great look in his late 20s, and somehow concluded that the wrong guy won the fight. But with this information, so much about why WWE has gone in the toilet the last few years makes a lot of sense.

[sek69]

Someone should show Vince some tapes of Kimbo Slice in Elite XC, since they seem to be doing the Hulk Hogan in 1983 build with him.