kjh Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 Christian is actually in a good position. Being on ECW has protected him from being lost in the midcard shuffle and being bigfooted or sabotaged by his main event peers, which would have inevitably happened if he started out on Raw or Smackdown due to him having the political taint of being a TNA turncoat only to come crawling back with his tail between his legs. I'd expect him to get a few Raw or Smackdown main events next year, once his ECW stint has runs its course, just because of WWE's dearth of fresh talent that their fans will accept on top. With regards to the pushes of Sheamus and Drew McIntyre, I think we have to be glad that they're finally pushing someone new and seem to be fully committed into getting them over. That's a step in the right direction, even if their choice of whom to push is a little uninspired. Hopefully they'll grow in the role and become more than just serviceable fresh guys in the mix. Unfortunately I don't think we can presently expect the company to push guys that are too charismatic or too athletic for their own good, because there are too many old guys that have to be pushed as main eventers taking up room at the top of the card. They'll have to wait their turn. <_> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.L.L. Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 So the big argument I've been making for a few years now (well, one of them, anyway) is that WWE lacks a true, clear-cut identity. A sub-argument of that that I haven't been as loud about is that the individual brands lack identities, and a sub-sub-argument of that is that ECW not only lacked an identity beyond "WWE's AAA league", but that it didn't even have a wrestler on it's roster who seemed cut out to provide it with an identity. Maybe Punk, but I always saw him as someone who would make a name for himself in ECW and then move on to bigger and better things. Didn't see him as an anchor for the brand. In 2009, ECW has really been something of a "model brand" for WWE, because Christian came in and gave them an identity. On ECW, Christian actually feels like the star of the show, and you actually feel his identity - scrappy, mouthy, small-ish guy who doesn't take shit from anyone, who won't back down from any challenge, and who gratefully acknowledges the support of his rabid fanbase - reflected throughout the show. It's something WWE has been desperately lacking, and it's something I'd be disinclined to mess with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 The Punk/New Breed/et al era of ECW was always weird because it always seemed like they forgot that they needed to switch over a veteran as player-coach after Benoit...um...happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 Being an anchor of the ECW brand seems to be a fairly short term position. It's the nature of the beast. Partly because it's explicitly or implicitly used to groom talent for a spot on one of the bigger brands (implicit in the sense that might not be the goal, but by virtue of being a big fish in a small pond an ECW anchor will inevitably start looking like mouthwatering fresh meat to feed to the real stars, who have already eaten up and spat out the last batch of fresh young stars sent to their way). Partly because having an annual draft lottery necessitates change for changes sake and ECW, as the red headed WWE step-brand, will always get shafted in that process. So odds are good that even though WWE shouldn't switch Christian to another brand, inevitably they will and almost certainly sooner rather than later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.L.L. Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 Being an anchor of the ECW brand seems to be a fairly short term position. It's the nature of the beast. Partly because it's explicitly or implicitly used to groom talent for a spot on one of the bigger brands (implicit in the sense that might not be the goal, but by virtue of being a big fish in a small pond an ECW anchor will inevitably start looking like mouthwatering fresh meat to feed to the real stars, who have already eaten up and spat out the last batch of fresh young stars sent to their way). Partly because having an annual draft lottery necessitates change for changes sake and ECW, as the red headed WWE step-brand, will always get shafted in that process. So odds are good that even though WWE shouldn't switch Christian to another brand, inevitably they will and almost certainly sooner rather than later. Oh, no question that they'll screw it up in due time. I'm just saying that having him as brand ace on ECW in lieu of "giving him a chance in the spotlight" on one of the other brands may actually be the best possible way to use him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 Wow, Vince must have been really pissed to see a host on RAW bomb so badly, especially one espousing the same political views he has. It was kind of funny to see him being all "liberals, amirite?" to a crowd of wrestling fans in Texas and getting crickets as a reaction. He must have really been yelling in the headsets too, since "Dennis Miller must be writing your jokes" became everyone's comeback to a corny one liner. It was hilarious that Miller basically threw in the towel within the first minute of a three hour show. And Vince had the only legit funny gag of the night, when he said some hosts were better than others, and gave a sly look in Miller's direction. Which was right after Miller ridiculed that McMahon gave him comedy advice (all the while his ad-libs bombed left and right.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1004Holds Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 So the big argument I've been making for a few years now (well, one of them, anyway) is that WWE lacks a true, clear-cut identity. A sub-argument of that that I haven't been as loud about is that the individual brands lack identities, and a sub-sub-argument of that is that ECW not only lacked an identity beyond "WWE's AAA league", but that it didn't even have a wrestler on it's roster who seemed cut out to provide it with an identity. Maybe Punk, but I always saw him as someone who would make a name for himself in ECW and then move on to bigger and better things. Didn't see him as an anchor for the brand. In 2009, ECW has really been something of a "model brand" for WWE, because Christian came in and gave them an identity. On ECW, Christian actually feels like the star of the show, and you actually feel his identity - scrappy, mouthy, small-ish guy who doesn't take shit from anyone, who won't back down from any challenge, and who gratefully acknowledges the support of his rabid fanbase - reflected throughout the show. It's something WWE has been desperately lacking, and it's something I'd be disinclined to mess with. I can see your point, but what I don't understand is that Christian and other wrestlers do a great job on ECW and yet they don't seem to go to the next step which I would figure is going on to Smackdown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.L.L. Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 So the big argument I've been making for a few years now (well, one of them, anyway) is that WWE lacks a true, clear-cut identity. A sub-argument of that that I haven't been as loud about is that the individual brands lack identities, and a sub-sub-argument of that is that ECW not only lacked an identity beyond "WWE's AAA league", but that it didn't even have a wrestler on it's roster who seemed cut out to provide it with an identity. Maybe Punk, but I always saw him as someone who would make a name for himself in ECW and then move on to bigger and better things. Didn't see him as an anchor for the brand. In 2009, ECW has really been something of a "model brand" for WWE, because Christian came in and gave them an identity. On ECW, Christian actually feels like the star of the show, and you actually feel his identity - scrappy, mouthy, small-ish guy who doesn't take shit from anyone, who won't back down from any challenge, and who gratefully acknowledges the support of his rabid fanbase - reflected throughout the show. It's something WWE has been desperately lacking, and it's something I'd be disinclined to mess with. I can see your point, but what I don't understand is that Christian and other wrestlers do a great job on ECW and yet they don't seem to go to the next step which I would figure is going on to Smackdown. My argument is that I'd just as soon see Christian stay in ECW. There really isn't a spot that good for him anywhere else in the company. It does seem that most of the guys who come up through ECW as of late end up on RAW for some reason. It does seem like they're skipping a step in the hierarchy, which is odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 Anyone else enjoying 57talk's Gary Cubeta losing the plot on the latest interview with Jr Jackson? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 Wow that was bad. SMART MARKS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 Okay describe this Cubeta thing to me with Jackson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 The best part was JR saying that smart marks all wish they lived his life. Because carrying Scott Norton's bags around an airport and having crohn's disease is what every man longs for... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 People in the business have the need to feel that the "marks" all want to be them. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death From Above Posted December 19, 2009 Report Share Posted December 19, 2009 That's true of every big althetics/entertainment business though. Michael Vick probably thinks we're all jealous of him too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 Please, who wouldn't be defensive in the athletic/entertainment business? Most of us don't go around having our lives critiqued in minute detail. I think a fair few people would lose the plot if the shoe were on the other foot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 It's not a matter of them being defensive. It's ego gratification. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
floyd Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 Hey if anyone is interested in joining Pro Wrestling Torrents there accepting 5,000 new members for Xmas. They never have signups so the window is short! http://special.pwtorrents.net/signup.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 --On last night's radio show, a question was asked regarding issues with Kurt Angle and Eddy Guerrero. The incident was on September 14, 2004. Kurt Angle and Luther Reigns were getting a big heel push, and were supposed to beat down Big Show and Guerrero would make the save. Guerrero came out too fast, before they had even gotten heat on Show. Angle yelled at Guerrero backstage and Guerrero flipped out and attacked him. Angle just grabbed a front facelock and held Guerrero in place, which made Guerrero even madder, except he couldn't do anything. Guerrero complained at the time he thought Angle was disrespecting him in their matches and working too stiff with him, noting Angle slapping him in the head when Guerrero asked him to stay away from his head. There were also troubles because in matches with both Angle and Reigns at the time, they'd try to pick him up off the mat to continue working and he wouldn't get up. It blew over and it was blamed at the time on both guys being frustrated and they made up. (thanks to Justin Shapiro)Just posting because the bold part is always funny. O NOES HE WANTED TO SELL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted December 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2009 Why did he thank Justin Shapiro? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted December 22, 2009 Report Share Posted December 22, 2009 Presumably because he didn't remember it himself and Shapiro sent it in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jkeats Posted December 22, 2009 Report Share Posted December 22, 2009 My wife and I have been going through the Joss Whedon-verse over the past couple of years, making our ways through the Buffy and Angel dvd sets. On one of the Angel episodes (I believe it's the fifth season) there's an ep entitled "The Cautionary Tale of Numero Cinco" and it's about the mail guy at Wolfram & Hart, who happens to be a luchador (you would see him walking by in the background in other episodes with the mask on). This ep was definitely written by someone who understood lucha as there were nice references to the masks and his family (there were five "Hermanos Numeros" and they were superheroes in lucha. He became disgusted after the four brothers died and they became mocked...very appropos to how pro wrestling has evolved into even more campiness). Even about how they battled "El Diablo Robotico" and other cheesy monsters like in the Santo movies. It was a really great episode and even touching. It was nice to see wrestling portrayed in a way that wasn't completely stereotypical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomk Posted December 22, 2009 Report Share Posted December 22, 2009 Why did he thank Justin Shapiro? Yeah that is weird. Also is that the way it was reported at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted December 22, 2009 Report Share Posted December 22, 2009 Also is that the way it was reported at the time.How so? The part about the botched run-in causing the fight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomk Posted December 22, 2009 Report Share Posted December 22, 2009 Remember Guerrero being mad about the failure to protect back of head,(which I think was blamed on Angle's deafness missing the request or some such) getting caught in a headlock backstage and then just calming down and apologizing in headlock for making too big of a deal of it. And don't remember it as Eddy deadweighting so much as not bouncing back up for next move. Whatever. I mean it's something reported by Meltzer, that Shapiro recounted and I question aspects of that retelling. One guy with horrible grammar reports something. And then a guy with horrible grammar rewrites that original report according to memory. And then another guy with horrible grammar questions the retelling based on his memory. In that context arguing about the lack of clarity and usage over who was the actor and subject seems pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artDDP Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 Beginning in the fall of 2001 Angle started to look more and more like a guy who didn't care for his opponent as long as he looked good. Didn't he and his wife get very upset that Rob Van Dam didn't pull his kicks during their feud? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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