El-P Posted November 11, 2010 Report Share Posted November 11, 2010 Hitler never got his heat back on Staline after the double-cross. Plus the US bombing Hiroshima was such a heel move. Seriously, who booked this shit ? I know it was to build toward the Cold War but still. Best part of the war was Pétain turning heel and De Gaulle becoming a huge babyface in London. He was the top draw in France for decades then. Sammartino-like babyface. 40 years after his death, he's still celebrated. Chickenshit heel Sarkozy paying hommage to de Gaulle was a great heel move, it pissed off the crowd so much. Gotta... get... Meltzer... out.... of... my..... brain.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted November 11, 2010 Report Share Posted November 11, 2010 In 2010. If you're a heel who people pay to see get beat up. You're not a heel because people actually believe you're an asshole. A true heel is contrived and fake, we see through and would never want to actually buy tickets to see. Being seen by a public that doesn't know you as being an asshole has nothing to do with being a great heel. Yeah, I'm trying to learn the modernization of all the words I grew up with. Pretty soon guys who draw big gates aren't really drawing cards, because people actually believe they want to see them fight, so that has nothing to do with being drawig cards. That's the most gramatically confusing thing I've ever seen Dave Meltzer write. Somebody translate, please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeCampbell Posted November 11, 2010 Report Share Posted November 11, 2010 Aside from him explaining a "heel" is someone who only acts like an asshole, I have no clue what he's talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted November 11, 2010 Report Share Posted November 11, 2010 My head hurts reading that. I love Jerome's breakingof Godwinn's law, with the De Gaulle shit having me in stitches. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted November 11, 2010 Report Share Posted November 11, 2010 Anyone have a link to that thread for when I resubscribe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomk Posted November 11, 2010 Report Share Posted November 11, 2010 Dave was replying to this statement which he pretty clearly didn't understand: I know I am opening pandoras box on this one but please stop with this 'Koscheck is the greatest heel in the business today' crap. First of all wresting and MMA aren't the same business but besides the point. He is not a heel he is a asshole. And not a pretend asshole either which is what a heel is sometimes. He is a real asshole. The only thing that a heel and an asshole have in common is that people want to see him get the crap beat out of him. If we are going to use this logic then the reason why the Steelers/Bengals game got great ratings on Monday was because Terrell Owens is a "great heel So Dave's response to Koscheck being "real asshole" not "worked heel" is that heels aren't supposed to be contrived ironic wink-wink heels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted November 11, 2010 Report Share Posted November 11, 2010 I still have no idea what he's saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artDDP Posted November 12, 2010 Report Share Posted November 12, 2010 I have a few friends who are serious, die-hard MMA fans and they absolutely hate Meltzer's coverage of the sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted November 12, 2010 Report Share Posted November 12, 2010 Yeah this real vs fake thing has gone from one of Dave's quacky quirks and/or a roundabout justification for him to cover MMA in a Pro Wrestling newsletter to bitterly defended dogma. I dont people will look back at this decision kindly when they look at Dave's work if/when MMA becomes a fully accepted mainstream sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted November 12, 2010 Report Share Posted November 12, 2010 Phil Schneider trolls Dave: Jerry Springer should have won the Observer Best Booker award from 1994-1997. Second generation pro-wrestler Jamie Dundee working as the heel The Convict on Jerry Springer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkB5fPGPD_4 one might criticize this heel performance visa vis Jamie's other appearances on Springer as he really doesn't get his comeupponce. Springer producer Richard Dominick (probably the guy who should have gotten the booker award) was a long time wrestling fan and a student of the biz. Security Steve Wilkos has worked indie wrestling dates. I will be shocked if Springer isn't eventually inducted into the WWE Hall of Fame. One could argue that syndicated talk shows competed with and replaced syndicated wrestling. The historical links between pro-wrestling and Jerry Springer are as tight as the links between pro-wrestling and MMA. Springer is pro-wrestling. Dave thinks it was a weak attempt: When the WWE comes into a market, do they have, in their contract, that the arena can't host a syndicated talk show within 45 days before or after due to confusion in the marketplace? When syndicated talk shows air in Europe, does WWE, go to the stations and say that they are bad for children, too violent, and should not be allowed to air? Did WWE offer a syndicated talk show host $2 million to fight Undertaker at WrestleMania this year? Did all but a few UFC heavyweight champions also work as syndicated talk show hosts? Sorry, but even as a troll, that was beyond weak. But you knew that going in. As a tongue in cheek counterpoint to Dave, did WWE script writers in the late 1990s watch MMA or syndicated talk shows to inspire their writing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted November 12, 2010 Report Share Posted November 12, 2010 When syndicated talk shows air in Europe, does WWE, go to the stations and say that they are bad for children, too violent, and should not be allowed to air?I dunno, did they did WWE do this with regards to MMA? It was never in the newsletter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted November 12, 2010 Report Share Posted November 12, 2010 This stuff should be in the Dave thread, or in the More Wrestling Than Wrestling thread. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Schneider Posted November 12, 2010 Report Share Posted November 12, 2010 That trolling may have been ghostwritten by Tomk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Schneider Posted November 12, 2010 Report Share Posted November 12, 2010 That trolling may have been ghostwritten by Tomk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted November 12, 2010 Report Share Posted November 12, 2010 Is this the Gordy List for what is wrestling? "When the WWE comes into a market, do they have, in their contract, that the arena can't host a syndicated talk show within 45 days before or after due to confusion in the marketplace?" No, but irrelevant because talk show's run in studio enviornment's - much like wrestling used too. "When syndicated talk shows air in Europe, does WWE, go to the stations and say that they are bad for children, too violent, and should not be allowed to air?" Don't know about Europe, but I know for an absolute fact that WWE/WCW pressured stations not to carry certain talk shows in certain time slots in my area, Springer being one of them - and the excuse used was that they were "bad for kids." I've heard this from two people - one a prominent local ad executive that I have worked with through radio contacts, and the second a long time friend and source of Dave Meltzer. Did WWE offer a syndicated talk show host $2 million to fight Undertaker at WrestleMania this year? No - But Springer did host a Raw this year, and Morton Downey Jr./Roddy Piper skit was promoted as a key moment on one of WWE's biggest shows in history (at the time). Did all but a few UFC heavyweight champions also work as syndicated talk show hosts? Irrelevant, worthless point. How many football players went on to become wrestlers? Bouncers? Drug dealers? Is Nickey Barnes candidate for "lost worker of all time" due to lack of footage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted November 12, 2010 Report Share Posted November 12, 2010 Is this the Gordy List for what is wrestling? "When the WWE comes into a market, do they have, in their contract, that the arena can't host a syndicated talk show within 45 days before or after due to confusion in the marketplace?" No, but irrelevant because talk show's run in studio enviornment's - much like wrestling used too. "When syndicated talk shows air in Europe, does WWE, go to the stations and say that they are bad for children, too violent, and should not be allowed to air?" Don't know about Europe, but I know for an absolute fact that WWE/WCW pressured stations not to carry certain talk shows in certain time slots in my area, Springer being one of them - and the excuse used was that they were "bad for kids." I've heard this from two people - one a prominent local ad executive that I have worked with through radio contacts, and the second a long time friend and source of Dave Meltzer. Did WWE offer a syndicated talk show host $2 million to fight Undertaker at WrestleMania this year? No - But Springer did host a Raw this year, and Morton Downey Jr./Roddy Piper skit was promoted as a key moment on one of WWE's biggest shows in history (at the time). Did all but a few UFC heavyweight champions also work as syndicated talk show hosts? Irrelevant, worthless point. How many football players went on to become wrestlers? Bouncers? Drug dealers? Is Nickey Barnes candidate for "lost worker of all time" due to lack of footage? I heart Dylan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Schneider Posted November 13, 2010 Report Share Posted November 13, 2010 Dylan do you have a WON account? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted November 13, 2010 Report Share Posted November 13, 2010 Yeah... someone needs to come up with "The Shamrock List" for MMA = Pro Wrestling. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted November 13, 2010 Report Share Posted November 13, 2010 Dylan do you have a WON account? No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted November 13, 2010 Report Share Posted November 13, 2010 Yeah... someone needs to come up with "The Shamrock List" for MMA = Pro Wrestling. John Nah Shammy is a sure fire guy. The Severn List on the other hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted November 13, 2010 Report Share Posted November 13, 2010 Also, they didn't offer just any big name UFC fighter 7 figures for a WM main event. They offered it to Brock Lesnar. They would've done the same thing with any ex-wrestler who became a bigger star in another industry. Since pro wrestlers rarely become more famous elsewhere, they used Jesse Ventura within a year of his election as MN governor, and have been after Dwayne Johnson to do anything since he's become a full-time actor, the offer doesn't prove anything. The same thing would've happened if his football career was a success, is that more proof that the NFL is actually the same thing as pro wrestling? Let's see: - Many, many top wrestlers have been football players. - XFL players ended up in the NFL. - Both featured great promos by Ernie Ladd. - Both have a concussion problem. - Both a steroid problem. - Both feature men in tights. - Both inflate attendance figures to make them seem more impressive. - Both have musical guests at their biggest annual event. - Both are covered on SBNation blogs. - You could probably fight one country in the eastern hemisphere that thinks they're the same thing. - Both featured two-sport athletes, like Bo Jackson and Bob Holly. - Both feature more Samoans per capita than the general population. EXACTLY THE FUCKING SAME, FUCKERS. P.S. Phil, please C&P Dylan's post at Figure 4chan if you haven't already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted November 13, 2010 Report Share Posted November 13, 2010 Oh, by the way, if we make a "Is X pro wrestling" Gordy list thing it should really be The Epic Beard Man List or The Billy Mitchell List since those are the most...something examples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted November 13, 2010 Report Share Posted November 13, 2010 When syndicated talk shows air in Europe, does WWE, go to the stations and say that they are bad for children, too violent, and should not be allowed to air?I dunno, did they did WWE do this with regards to MMA? It was never in the newsletter. To be fair it has been mentioned in the newsletter, but only several months after he and Oliver Copp blabbed about it on the forums. IIRC, it was buried in a discussion about this weekend's card in Germany when, or soon after it, was originally announced. Clearly it mustn't be that important if the story is treated in such a fashion though. <_> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted November 13, 2010 Report Share Posted November 13, 2010 I’d like to first say I like Oliver Copp a lot, enjoy his radio show and seems like a nice dude by all accounts. When I went back to the F4W forum a few months after the Cageside Seats article about WWE blocking UFC events in Europe. Oliver's stance in regards kjh "breaking a confidence" so to speak when he reported news Oliver posted under a message handle was even more silly beyond operating under the belief that a message board with 1,000s of members was this closed, private community. As he posts his own radio show in which he uses his real name as the host on the forum under his internet handle as well as answering to message board posts addressed to Olly, Oliver, Copp etc. among other things under that same handle too. For a dude that has gone so far in the industry that is some collection of shitty defences and/or reasons to be upset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted November 13, 2010 Report Share Posted November 13, 2010 Dylan do you have a WON account? No. You should call the show and piss off Dave live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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